End Times Speculation the alternate approach

[openmind77]

Do not have to “Apply” them as they are “Fulfilled” by the Baha’i Revelation.

I cut to The chase there, no beating around the corner as this is the reality we will all soon face. As the Faith comes from obscurity I am sure you will find more grenades to throw

Make them Love grenades please!

Regards Tony

I am afraid that it is those of the Bahai Faith who will have to face reality soon. In the next year or two both the real Mahdi and after that Jesus will return. I hope the Bahai will not get in the way of the recognition and acceptance of these two ‘Sons of God’ (actually I don’t think they will), but in the mean time the Bahais are interfering with their mission, spreading disinformation and sowing seeds of dissension amongst people by your absurd claims.

 

[jeffrey_erwin]

Give it up Tony, these numbers won’t even convince a thousand people. By the time the Bahais get to 10 million, the real Mahdi will be here, so you won’t need to keep trying so hard. I don’t think you have that much longer to wait.
.

After the disaster of global nuclear war the world’s population will be fortunate to number even so much as ten million. Yeah, I do agree that it’s not much longer to wait.
The fulfillment of the visions of Pope St.Pius X will mark the beginning of the End Times.

 

[TonyBS]

I am afraid that it is those of the Bahai Faith who will have to face reality soon. In the next year or two both the real Mahdi and after that Jesus will return. I hope the Bahai will not get in the way of the recognition and acceptance of these two ‘Sons of God’ (actually I don’t think they will), but in the mean time the Bahais are interfering with their mission, spreading disinformation and sowing seeds of dissension amongst people by your absurd claims.

You may wish to contemplate The past when a new message was given. A few Souls arise and teach the Glad tidings and spread the New creation that is destined to be the New Love of God. All the while the remainder do as they did before and a lot concentrate on all that is bad.

There will be an event coming but as a Bahai we concentrate on doing what must be done, concentrate and hold to all that is good. How bad this event will be is still in humanities hands, it still has time to accept Gods way and thus dampen the horror of the rimes to come.

So we “Interfere” for Love and God bless you with clear vision of why it is now all so.

Regards Tony

 

[openmind77]

After the disaster of global nuclear war the world’s population will be fortunate to number even so much as ten million. Yeah, I do agree that it’s not much longer to wait.
The fulfillment of the visions of Pope St.Pius X will mark the beginning of the End Times.

Jeffrey, you are way too pessimistic, there will never be such whole scale slaughter. The trial the Church will go through will be over doctrine and beliefs, it will not involve deaths (at least not that many). So the visions of Pope Pius X should be taken metaphorically not literally (as are the visions from the Revelations).

God and the Christ will never allow humanity to be decimated. The deaths will only occur when misguided people (like ISIL) fight just to fulfill some prophecy. Both the Mahdi and Jesus will ensure that the majority of humanity will come out of this crisis fully cleansed and far more spiritual.

 

[openmind77]

You may wish to contemplate The past when a new message was given. A few Souls arise and teach the Glad tidings and spread the New creation that is destined to be the New Love of God. All the while the remainder do as they did before and a lot concentrate on all that is bad.

There will be an event coming but as a Bahai we concentrate on doing what must be done, concentrate and hold to all that is good. How bad this event will be is still in humanities hands, it still has time to accept Gods way and thus dampen the horror of the rimes to come.

So we “Interfere” for Love and God bless you with clear vision of why it is now all so.

Regards Tony

There is nothing wrong in talking about commonality of religions (although Bahais seem to gloss over differences and even twist the beliefs of other religions) or the unity of mankind. Promoting international organizations (like the UN, ICJ) and international peace and cooperation is great stuff.

But when you start pushing your own candidates as ‘Manifestations’ of God and worse even claiming they are Jesus, the Father, the Mahdi, Amitabha, Moshiach etc, that is counterproductive and interferes with the Divine plan.

If Bahaullah and the Bab are indeed true ‘Manifestations’, people will recognize the two as such by themselves through their teachings and the energy they draw from them. Since this is not happening to any great degree, it is easy to conclude that they are not what you claim. Insisting on pushing those claims in spite of this, interferes with and thwarts the Divine plan. Just spreading the Bahai teachings should be sufficient without making these fantastic claims.

The Mahdi will be here soon, we want to make sure that people don’t resist him unnecessarily - your claims merely serve to sow the seeds of animosity and resentment. Of course by the time Jesus Returns a few years later, things will have settled down - but those years in between will be a traumatic few years for many people.

 

[TonyBS]

If Bahaullah and the Bab are indeed true ‘Manifestations’, people will recognize the two as such by themselves through their teachings and the energy they draw from them. Since this is not happening to any great degree, it is easy to conclude that they are not what you claim. Insisting on pushing those claims in spite of this, interferes with and thwarts the Divine plan. Just spreading the Bahai teachings should be sufficient without making these fantastic claims.

This is something you will have to consider as to why you have neglected to see the event.

Baha’u’llah has written replies on this very subject to Zoroastrian Believers, the answer is firm and clear; reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/TU/tu-2.html

The link is to the Introductory page, the Tablets are eye opening.

Regards Tony

 

[jeffrey_erwin]

Jeffrey, you are way too pessimistic, there will never be such whole scale slaughter. The trial the Church will go through will be over doctrine and beliefs, it will not involve deaths (at least not that many). So the visions of Pope Pius X should be taken metaphorically not literally (as are the visions from the Revelations).

God and the Christ will never allow humanity to be decimated. The deaths will only occur when misguided people (like ISIL) fight just to fulfill some prophecy. Both the Mahdi and Jesus will ensure that the majority of humanity will come out of this crisis fully cleansed and far more spiritual.

Once again, I hope that you are right. But I believe that a true World Government is our Creator’s will for mankind. Given the kind of fanatical resistance that I’ve noticed to that idea (even here on Catholic Answers,) I find it obvious that another world war, much more terrible than WW II, will be required to convince humanity to accept a world government.

BTW, Pope St. Pius X was quite shaken by his visions. I believe that they were true visions, not just metaphors. Time will tell.
If these do not happen (and God forbid that they should) in the lifetime of Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI, then I will be proven wrong.

 

[TonyBS]

Once again, I hope that you are right. But I believe that a true World Government is our Creator’s will for mankind. Given the kind of fanatical resistance that I’ve noticed to that idea (even here on Catholic Answers,) I find it obvious that another world war, much more terrible than WW II, will be required to convince humanity to accept a world government.

BTW, Pope St. Pius X was quite shaken by his visions. I believe that they were true visions, not just metaphors. Time will tell.
If these do not happen (and God forbid that they should) in the lifetime of Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI, then I will be proven wrong.

Please consider is not the fight against terror already a world wide initiative?

“Reflect ye as to other than human forms of life and be ye admonished thereby: those clouds that drift apart cannot produce the bounty of the rain, and are soon lost; a flock of sheep, once scattered, falleth prey to the wolf, and birds that fly alone will be caught fast in the claws of the hawk. What greater demonstration could there be that unity leadeth to flourishing life, while dissension and withdrawing from the others, will lead only to misery; for these are the sure ways to bitter disappointment and ruin”. – Abdu’l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu’l-Baha, p. 277.

“If religion becomes the cause of enmity and bloodshed, then irreligion is to be preferred. For religion is the remedy for every ailment, and if a remedy should become the cause of ailment and difficulty, it is better to abandon it”. – Abdu’l-Baha - See more at: bahaiblog.net/site/2015/01/religion-becomes-cause-terror/#sthash.Y2GlOKHZ.dpuf

Baha’u’llah, severely persecuted by fanatical Muslims for his Message of tolerance and unity, defied vengeful instinct by writing:

Consort with all religions with amity and concord. Beware lest amidst men the flame of foolish ignorance overpower you.1

These mighty systems have proceeded from one Source, and are rays of one Light.

Religious fanaticism and hatred are a world-devouring fire

• See more at: bahaiblog.net/site/2015/01/religion-becomes-cause-terror/#footnote_1_14732

Baha’u’llah said that first, the nations of the world would arm themselves with infernal engines of war, and when fully armed would attack each other like bloodthirsty beasts. As a result, there would be enormous bloodshed throughout the world. Then the wise from all nations would gather together to investigate the cause of such bloodshed. They would come to the conclusion that prejudices were the cause, a major form being religious prejudice. They would therefore try to eliminate religion so as to eliminate prejudice. Later they would realize that man cannot live without religion. Then they would study the teachings of all religions to see which of the religions conformed to the prevailing conditions of the time. It is then that the Cause of God would become universal.4 - See more at: bahaiblog.net/site/2015/01/religion-becomes-cause-terror/#footnote_1_14732

Regards Tony

 

[openmind77]

Once again, I hope that you are right. But I believe that a true World Government is our Creator’s will for mankind. Given the kind of fanatical resistance that I’ve noticed to that idea (even here on Catholic Answers,) I find it obvious that another world war, much more terrible than WW II, will be required to convince humanity to accept a world government.

I don’t think World Government is such a great idea either (although I am not fanatical about it) - the mess in Europe already indicates how unworkable it will be. Even if it was workable, each country and people have their own character and should be remain separate just to maintain that character. Otherwise it will be like the US - if I move to a neighboring state, I can hardly tell the difference.

BTW, Pope St. Pius X was quite shaken by his visions. I believe that they were true visions, not just metaphors. Time will tell.
If these do not happen (and God forbid that they should) in the lifetime of Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI, then I will be proven wrong.

I have my own theory about the role Pope Benedict will play in the trial of the Church, but it does not involve anything as apocalyptic as you think, and certainly no deaths as the visions suggest.

 

[openmind77]

…
Baha’u’llah said that first, the nations of the world would arm themselves with infernal engines of war, and when fully armed would attack each other like bloodthirsty beasts. As a result, there would be enormous bloodshed throughout the world.

This has already occurred in the two World Wars. There has been plenty of bloodshed, not to speak of the holocaust itself. There is no need to assume there will a third one as big (although there will be plenty of smaller ones).

Then the wise from all nations would gather together to investigate the cause of such bloodshed. They would come to the conclusion that prejudices were the cause, a major form being religious prejudice. They would therefore try to eliminate religion so as to eliminate prejudice.

The secularization of governments and international institutions has already occurred to a great deal.

Later they would realize that man cannot live without religion. Then they would study the teachings of all religions to see which of the religions conformed to the prevailing conditions of the time. …

This last will occur when the Mahdi and Jesus return and they will initiate the reconciliation among all religions.

 

[arthra]

Openmind raised the issue of numbers and while it’s true that compared to say Christianity, Islam and Hinduism there are relatively few Baha’is in the world… It’s also true that the Faith is becoming widely recognized and Baha’is live in a 190 countries with 11,700 Local Spiritual Assemblies… Go back to 1921 and the Baha’i population was approx. 100,000. Today there are estimated over five million Baha’is.

But even more than the above and this following statement has been widely known by Baha’is for quite awhile is the following:

*'Not by the force of numbers, not by the mere exposition of a set of new and noble principles, not by an organized campaign of teaching – no matter how worldwide and elaborate in its character – not even by the staunchness of our faith or the exaltation of our enthusiasm, can we ultimately hope to vindicate in the eyes of a critical and skeptical age the supreme claim of the Abha Revelation.

One thing and only one thing will unfailingly and alone secure the undoubted triumph of this sacred Cause, namely, the extent to which our own inner life and private character mirror forth in their manifold aspects the splendour of those eternal principles proclaimed by Bahá’u’lláh.’
*
Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 366

We can also look back over the past hundred and seventy years or so and consider the following…

Around 1868 Baha’u’llah addressed Letters to the rulers of some of the most powerful countries on earth asking them to reduce their armaments and begin building a representative world parliament with an international court of arbitration to settle disputes. Did rulers respond and begin building reducing their armaments? Did they send representatives to set up a world parliament? The answer is “no”… so the carnage of WWI and later rests on their shoulders… Did Abdul-Baha warn of the coming carnage of WWI when He visited Europe and America in 1911, 1912 and later? Yes He did.

But consider this… Following WWI the League of Nations began to be established… which later failed to keep peace. and following WWII the United Nations was established. We now have an International Court of Arbitration to settle disputes… As deficient as some of these efforts are and as imperfect as some maintain they are… They are moving closer to achieving some of the goals and principles set forth by Baha’u’llah than in the past… I say we’re making progress…

 

[worldcitizen]

This is something people might want to download a keep to read. It’s all about then end times.

bahai-library.com/pdf/s/sears_thief_night.pdf

 

[worldcitizen]

I am afraid that it is those of the Bahai Faith who will have to face reality soon. In the next year or two both the real Mahdi and after that Jesus will return. I hope the Bahai will not get in the way of the recognition and acceptance of these two ‘Sons of God’ (actually I don’t think they will), but in the mean time the Bahais are interfering with their mission, spreading disinformation and sowing seeds of dissension amongst people by your absurd claims.

This speaks about the Mahdi. It goes into depth about the signs if you’re interested

bahai-library.com/momen_introduction_shii_islam&chapter=8

 

[openmind77]

Openmind raised the issue of numbers and while it’s true that compared to say Christianity, Islam and Hinduism there are relatively few Baha’is in the world… It’s also true that the Faith is becoming widely recognized and Baha’is live in a 190 countries with 11,700 Local Spiritual Assemblies… Go back to 1921 and the Baha’i population was approx. 100,000. Today there are estimated over five million Baha’is.

Number of Christians over 2 biilion
Number of Muslims over 1.5 billion
Number of Hindus almost 1 billion
Number of Buddhists about 500 million
Number of Sufis about 80 million
Number of Sikhs 27 million
Number of Ismailis 15 million
Number of Ahmadis 15 million
Number of Bahai less than 7 million

And the Bahai leader is the Mahdi, Jesus, the Father, Amitabha, Krishna, Moshiach etc?

…
But consider this… Following WWI the League of Nations began to be established… which later failed to keep peace. and following WWII the United Nations was established. We now have an International Court of Arbitration to settle disputes… As deficient as some of these efforts are and as imperfect as some maintain they are… They are moving closer to achieving some of the goals and principles set forth by Baha’u’llah than in the past… I say we’re making progress…

League of Nations was Woodrow Wilson’s idea - so Bahais want to take credit for it?
United Nations was Roosevelt’s idea - you want to take that too?

What else do you want to take credit for - WTO? ICC? OECD? the internet?

The point is that just because you had some idea and ultimately someone else implements it, it does not mean you can take credit for it.

I doubt if the real Mahdi or Jesus when they return, will care to take credit for human institutions. Many of Bahaullah’s claims sound a lot like boasts. A true Son of God does not need to boast, people will acknowledge and accept him on their own. There will be always some initial resistance, but in this day and age acceptance should not take 170 years.

When the real Christ Returns, it will just be a few years for complete acceptance not one hundred.

 

[TonyBS]

Number of Christians over 2 biilion
Number of Muslims over 1.5 billion
Number of Hindus almost 1 billion
Number of Buddhists about 500 million
Number of Sufis about 80 million
Number of Sikhs 27 million
Number of Ismailis 15 million
Number of Ahmadis 15 million
Number of Bahai less than 7 million

And the Bahai leader is the Mahdi, Jesus, the Father, Amitabha, Krishna, Moshiach etc?

League of Nations was Woodrow Wilson’s idea - so Bahais want to take credit for it?
United Nations was Roosevelt’s idea - you want to take that too?

What else do you want to take credit for - WTO? ICC? OECD? the internet?

The point is that just because you had some idea and ultimately someone else implements it, it does not mean you can take credit for it.

I doubt if the real Mahdi or Jesus when they return, will care to take credit for human institutions. Many of Bahaullah’s claims sound a lot like boasts. A true Son of God does not need to boast, people will acknowledge and accept him on their own. There will be always some initial resistance, but in this day and age acceptance should not take 170 years.

When the real Christ Returns, it will just be a few years for complete acceptance not one hundred.

Already foretold that this is not an issue, as change is happening anyway;

“…Look ye not upon the fewness of thy numbers, rather, seek ye out hearts that are pure. One consecrated soul is preferable to a thousand other souls. If a small number of people gather lovingly together, with absolute purity and sanctity, with their hearts free of the world, experiencing the emotions of the Kingdom and the powerful magnetic forces of the Divine, and being at one in their happy fellowship, that gathering will exert its influence over all the earth. The nature of that band of people, the words they speak, the deeds they do, will unleash the bestowals of Heaven, and provide a foretaste of eternal bliss. The hosts of the Company on high will defend them, and the angels of the Abhá Paradise, in continuous succession, will come down to their aid”.

The world is changed and is changing without the majority knowing about it. Many will not choose to become part of the solution but will still have to ride the wave of Change. A lot will participate without knowing the source of their inspiration.

Split an Atom and Release a Sun,
to put it back can not be done!
The Word of God, now has come
to put it back can not be done!

Regards Tony

 

[Servant19]

Number of Christians over 2 biilion
Number of Muslims over 1.5 billion
Number of Hindus almost 1 billion
Number of Buddhists about 500 million
Number of Sufis about 80 million
Number of Sikhs 27 million
Number of Ismailis 15 million
Number of Ahmadis 15 million
Number of Bahai less than 7 million

And the Bahai leader is the Mahdi, Jesus, the Father, Amitabha, Krishna, Moshiach etc?

League of Nations was Woodrow Wilson’s idea - so Bahais want to take credit for it?
United Nations was Roosevelt’s idea - you want to take that too?

What else do you want to take credit for - WTO? ICC? OECD? the internet?

The point is that just because you had some idea and ultimately someone else implements it, it does not mean you can take credit for it.

I doubt if the real Mahdi or Jesus when they return, will care to take credit for human institutions. Many of Bahaullah’s claims sound a lot like boasts. A true Son of God does not need to boast, people will acknowledge and accept him on their own. There will be always some initial resistance, but in this day and age acceptance should not take 170 years.

When the real Christ Returns, it will just be a few years for complete acceptance not one hundred.

Out of the thousands and thousands of people that Jesus encountered 2000 years ago, how many accepted Him?

Jesus talked to and met and “boasted” about Himself being God, FACE TO FACE, with so many people within His ministry, and yet, openmind, how many accepted Him?

.

 

[TonyBS]

League of Nations was Woodrow Wilson’s idea - so Bahais want to take credit for it?

It is more than Likely Woodrow Wilson was influenced by the Teachings of Baha’u’llah, His daughter was a Baha’i

Now that would be proof enough against the Baha’i’s if we quoted something good from Woodrow Wilson about the Baha’i Faith (It would be claimed not an independent source as it was connected to the Baha’i’s)

Here is a link to examine on this subject - bahai-library.com/pearsall_wilson_bahai_connection

“Two items stand out in my memory: She (Eleanor) stated that her sister had spent years studying yoga in India, the other was that the answer to a question put to her by one of the friends was, yes, her father did have access to Bahá’í writings and did glean his 14 points from the writings. In a continuing conversation, she stated that she believed the reason he did not publically establish the source of his ideas was that he felt political opponents might use that source as a means of discrediting the idea itself. He chose his course out of political expediency.” The letter writer believes the visit was most likely to have been between 1943 and 1945".

United Nations was Roosevelt’s idea - you want to take that too?/

President Roosevelt’s was also impressed with the Baha’i Writings bahaiteachings.org/president-teddy-roosevelt-and-the-bahai-faith

"Ex-President Theodore Roosevelt “pronounced himself as wonderfully impressed with the teachings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, the Persian teacher of a universal religion, just liberated from prison and expected in this country in May. He declared that ‘Abdu’l-Bahá’s teachings would lift Mohametanism up spiritually into line with Christianity and would make for world peace.” -The New York Tribune, January 20, 1912

The proofs add up

Regards Tony

 

[worldcitizen]

Tony, you took the thoughts right out of my mind and posted them!

 

[TonyBS]

Tony, you took the thoughts right out of my mind and posted them!

I knew they were not my thoughts anyway, thankyou

God Bless and regards Tony

 

[Techno2000]

It is more than Likely Woodrow Wilson was influenced by the Teachings of Baha’u’llah, His daughter was a Baha’i

Now that would be proof enough against the Baha’i’s if we quoted something good from Woodrow Wilson about the Baha’i Faith (It would be claimed not an independent source as it was connected to the Baha’i’s)

Here is a link to examine on this subject - bahai-library.com/pearsall_wilson_bahai_connection

“Two items stand out in my memory: She (Eleanor) stated that her sister had spent years studying yoga in India, the other was that the answer to a question put to her by one of the friends was, yes, her father did have access to Bahá’í writings and did glean his 14 points from the writings. In a continuing conversation, she stated that she believed the reason he did not publically establish the source of his ideas was that he felt political opponents might use that source as a means of discrediting the idea itself. He chose his course out of political expediency.” The letter writer believes the visit was most likely to have been between 1943 and 1945".

President Roosevelt’s was also impressed with the Baha’i Writings bahaiteachings.org/president-teddy-roosevelt-and-the-bahai-faith

"Ex-President Theodore Roosevelt “pronounced himself as wonderfully impressed with the teachings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, the Persian teacher of a universal religion, just liberated from prison and expected in this country in May. He declared that ‘Abdu’l-Bahá’s teachings would lift Mohametanism up spiritually into line with Christianity and would make for world peace.” -The New York Tribune, January 20, 1912

The proofs add up

Regards Tony

So it is true Baha’is want a One World Government .