End Times Speculation the alternate approach

[TonyBS]

Hi CAF buddies.

There has been a thread on CAF running for around 8 years now well over 21,000 posts (Up to version 21) about the end times.

Would you like to explore this? Or do we leave it as speculation?

This would be to explore Prophesy on a larger scale than the other thread does, from other viewpoints.

Thus will Leave it to any that may wish to do this to post the first reply.

Regards Tony

 

[Jimmy_B]

Hi CAF buddies.

There has been a thread on CAF running for around 8 years now well over 21,000 posts (Up to version 21) about the end times.

Would you like to explore this? Or do we leave it as speculation?

This would be to explore Prophesy on a larger scale than the other thread does, from other viewpoints.

Thus will Leave it to any that may wish to do this to post the first reply.

Regards Tony

END TIMES
I find it amazing there are so many, non-Catholic, Protestant Christian denominations. And evangelical denominations still obsessing over this isssue, “End Times”. Especially since I’ve seen, read and heard so much about Protestants “having a personal relationship with Jesus”. I have also seen this tactic used historically, on street corners and on TV and by evil people and evil pastors, just to enrich themselves. Nobody has a more personal relationship with Jesus, than a good Catholic. It’s because of this relationship with Jesus that we, Catholics don’t obsess about “End Time” prophesy. Worry about your own soul and not God’s will. The end of the world for you will happen on the day you die, and that day could be today. Christ’s message on this matter was for us to try to be ready for judgement, regardless of the specific date and time. Beyond this might be considered, presumptuous, or acting in a scrupulous manner, which, in and of itself could be a sin. There are so many great things in the Bible to learn about and to reflect on. And so many things to learn about and reflect on, regarding the life of Christ and His sacrifice for us. So why would you waist your time and energy on something that is entirely God’s will? Where does a good Christian find the time to obsess about End Times?
God Bless!
Your thoughts?

 

[TonyBS]

END TIMES
I find it amazing there are so many, non-Catholic, Protestant Christian denominations. And evangelical denominations still obsessing over this isssue, “End Times”. Especially since I’ve seen, read and heard so much about Protestants “having a personal relationship with Jesus”. I have also seen this tactic used historically, on street corners and on TV and by evil people and evil pastors, just to enrich themselves. Nobody has a more personal relationship with Jesus, than a good Catholic. It’s because of this relationship with Jesus that we, Catholics don’t obsess about “End Time” prophesy. Worry about your own soul and not God’s will. The end of the world for you will happen on the day you die, and that day could be today. Christ’s message on this matter was for us to try to be ready for judgement, regardless of the specific date and time. Beyond this might be considered, presumptuous, or acting in a scrupulous manner, which, in and of itself could be a sin. There are so many great things in the Bible to learn about and to reflect on. And so many things to learn about and reflect on, regarding the life of Christ and His sacrifice for us. So why would you waist your time and energy on something that is entirely God’s will? Where does a good Christian find the time to obsess about End Times?
God Bless!
Your thoughts?

My thoughts would be that we needed to find a balance. A balance of being obsessed by it and of not looming for it.

Scripture said no one knows the time and at the same time would happen. It also gives signs for the time.

The Bible also gives many warnings.

Now it gets complicated. It is complicated because history has proven that to be so. We now have a world that is as scripture said it would be, no question as to that.

Again so many people so self assured they know the truth.

Jesus the Christ said that we had to Test the Prophets, this was said for a reason also.

Thus we can explore this aspect if our CAF friends so wish. If it is true then Prophesy must be able to be shown logically in Scripture. The same way we see Christ in the Old Testament we might be able to find truth about the final Judgement contained in the Old and New Testament.

Regards Tony

 

[Crusaderbear]

When the end comes, we will have to return our ‘rental’ property to the Lord…we need time to clean it up first! Hope the end doesn’t come before we do restore this place, I’m pretty sure we couldn’t handle the fees if He is displeased!

We do need to spend our energy with the now times rather than the end times!

 

[Son_of_Niall]

21,000 posts and you are wondering if there is anything different to say?

 

[ialsop]

OP, have you heard of the Great Catholic Monarch or the Great Chastisement?

Look them up.

Of course, we don’t seek to know or control God’s will like the rapture people.

But we need to not despise prophecy, as Peter wrote. We need to adhere to warnings of Fatima, recent visionaries, ect…and discern those spirits well.

Anyways, google those two concepts.

 

[TonyBS]

21,000 posts and you are wondering if there is anything different to say?

There is lots to say, but it will be a challenge to all. It will not be the same material posted on the other End Times Speculation.

Why - As it is considered by Baha’is we are in Judgement day, each and every one of us.

It is believed we missed the event and that Bible Prophesy that could not be known before the event, can now be seen with clarity.

Also much Prophecy from other religions is available that also tie in with Biblical references.

If people want to see how this could be so, we can continue. There is two possibilities. It is Wrong, or it is right as there is no middle road with a claim such as this.

I think it would be good to explore the possibilities. But will not if people do not want to.

Regards Tony

 

[TonyBS]

When the end comes, we will have to return our ‘rental’ property to the Lord…we need time to clean it up first! Hope the end doesn’t come before we do restore this place, I’m pretty sure we couldn’t handle the fees if He is displeased!

We do need to spend our energy with the now times rather than the end times!

It would be argued that the event has happened and we are now in the Judgement Day.

Yes it is written that it was expected we would be ready, but we were again found wanting, self again had clouded our vision.

We can all learn from this, as if this is so it will be Biblical.

Regards Tony

 

[TonyBS]

OP, have you heard of the Great Catholic Monarch or the Great Chastisement?

Look them up.

Of course, we don’t seek to know or control God’s will like the rapture people.

But we need to not despise prophecy, as Peter wrote. We need to adhere to warnings of Fatima, recent visionaries, ect…and discern those spirits well.

Anyways, google those two concepts.

Great Catholic Monarch “The restoration of Monarchy will not be a local affair; it will be a world-wide phenomenon…The republics and democracies will be over, communism and socialism a thing of the past…”

Yes this will be so, much written about this.

Great Chastisement? - Yes look at what we do to ourselves. Vision have many meanings that we can not understand. It would be shown that the dawn of Judgement day started in mid 1844, predating the vision of 1917.

Regards Tony

 

[PJM]

Hi CAF buddies.

There has been a thread on CAF running for around 8 years now well over 21,000 posts (Up to version 21) about the end times.

Would you like to explore this? Or do we leave it as speculation?

This would be to explore Prophesy on a larger scale than the other thread does, from other viewpoints.

Thus will Leave it to any that may wish to do this to post the first reply.

Regards Tony

No speculation is either warranted or necessary:

The Bible itself tells us that we WILL-NOT Know until is happens.

Speculation has existed from nearly the Time of the resurrection to the present:shrug:

Blessings,

Patrick

 

[TonyBS]

No speculation is either warranted or necessary:

The Bible itself tells us that we WILL-NOT Know until is happens.

Speculation has existed from nearly the Time of the resurrection to the present:shrug:

Blessings, Patrick

It happened, we now know - Bible passages support that not all would see.

The evidence is available

Regards Tony

 

[Crusaderbear]

No speculation is either warranted or necessary:
The Bible itself tells us that we WILL-NOT Know until is happens.
Speculation has existed from nearly the Time of the resurrection to the present:shrug:
Blessings,

Patrick

Concur, neither the time nor the place…

 

[TonyBS]

Concur, neither the time nor the place…

Yes until it happened, it did now we can know.

If we are at all interested in The fulfillment that is

A hint

Jeremiah 49:38- “I will set my throne in Elam and destroy her king and officials,” declares the LORD".

Regards Tony

 

[jeffrey_erwin]

Yes until it happened, it did now we can know.

If we are at all interested in The fulfillment that is

A hint

Jeremiah 49:38- “I will set my throne in Elam and destroy her king and officials,” declares the LORD".

Regards Tony

Hi Tony,
I hope that the Baha’i religion receives the respect that it deserves here in the alternate religions forum. I got dumped on myself in E.T.S. XXI for suggesting that the Baha’i prophecy of a bona-fide world government would come to pass.

My choice for End Times relevancy is Jeremiah 25:31 (but you already know that.)

 

[jeffrey_erwin]

END TIMES
Christ’s message on this matter was for us to try to be ready for judgement, regardless of the specific date and time. Beyond this might be considered, presumptuous, or acting in a scrupulous manner, which, in and of itself could be a sin. There are so many great things in the Bible to learn about and to reflect on. And so many things to learn about and reflect on, regarding the life of Christ and His sacrifice for us. So why would you waist your time and energy on something that is entirely God’s will? Where does a good Christian find the time to obsess about End Times?
God Bless!
Your thoughts?

That’s a good thought ,and it is hard to disagree with. My take is that an awareness that End Times are imminent increases our motivation to live according to our Lord’s Teachings. If Jesus didn’t want us to think about these things at all, then why did He mention them?

When you see these things begin to take place, stand erect, hold your heads high, because your liberation is near at hand.

 

[TonyBS]

Hi Tony,
I hope that the Baha’i religion receives the respect that it deserves here in the alternate religions forum. I got dumped on myself in E.T.S. XXI for suggesting that the Baha’i prophecy of a bona-fide world government would come to pass.

My choice for End Times relevancy is Jeremiah 25:31 (but you already know that.)

Jeffery - I see Jeremiah 25:31 “The tumult will resound to the ends of the earth, for the LORD will bring charges against the nations; he will bring judgment on all mankind and put the wicked to the sword,’” declares the LORD". as most likely passed and unraveling as we speak.

Personally I would see this as Baha’ullah’s Letters to all the leaders of the world including religious leaders and then after their refusal of the message, the Judgement Given against each of them unfolding. These prophesy’s of the downfall of these powers are powerful and evidence of the source of these warnings - bahai.org/library/authoritative-texts/bahaullah/summons-lord-hosts/

To me the sword in this passage is the Word that cuts Truth from the False.

Jeffery I see your views as trying to balance known knowledge. The world is a good teacher and we learn a lot from what it has offered to date as to what the future is to hold.

I know you expect a large world changing event. This has again been foretold in the Writings of Baha’u’llah. It will be an event large enough to change the direction we are heading in. There are unofficial writings that say all this can not be known, but it is thought the Cities are doomed. In what way we can not know. It is recorded that the Sky scrapers will fall like a pack of cards. How far into the future?

It is foretold that there will be a lesser peace and part of this lesser peace will be the disarming of the Nations of the World except for internal requirements and a Force that will police Humanity. reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/TB/tb-12.html

“The Great Being, wishing to reveal the prerequisites of the peace and tranquillity of the world and the advancement of its peoples, hath written: The time must come when the imperative necessity for the holding of a vast, an all-embracing assemblage of men will be universally realized. The rulers and kings of the earth must needs attend it, and, participating in its deliberations, must consider such ways and means as will lay the foundations of the world’s Great Peace amongst men. Such a peace demandeth that the Great Powers should resolve, for the sake of the tranquillity of the peoples of the earth, to be fully reconciled among themselves. Should any king take up arms against another, all should unitedly arise and prevent him. If this be done, the nations of the world will no longer require any armaments, except for the purpose of preserving the security of their realms and of maintaining internal order within their territories. This will ensure the peace and composure of every people, government and nation. We fain would hope that the kings and rulers of the earth, the mirrors of the gracious and almighty name of God, may attain unto this station, and shield mankind from the onslaught of tyranny”.

This is a massive subject and many many writings on this subject.

You will have no issue posting here All views welcome, all views considered and an answer supplied if required.

Regards Tony

 

[openmind77]

…
I know you expect a large world changing event. This has again been foretold in the Writings of Baha’u’llah. It will be an event large enough to change the direction we are heading in. There are unofficial writings that say all this can not be known, but it is thought the Cities are doomed. In what way we can not know. It is recorded that the Sky scrapers will fall like a pack of cards. How far into the future?

It is foretold that there will be a lesser peace and part of this lesser peace will be the disarming of the Nations of the World except for internal requirements and a Force that will police Humanity. reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/TB/tb-12.html
…

Jeffrey expects some sort of nuclear holocaust, I don’t really think so. There could be some nuclear war started by accident because so many countries are armed, but neither the US or Russia will start a total war intentionally.

The real world changing event will be the Return of both the muslim Mahdi and the Return of Jesus. Apparently, the Mahdi will appear first according to most prophecies - this event will cause many conflicts and dislocation amongst people who accept him and those who do not.

I know the Bahai believe that the Bab and Bahaullah are the Return, but the Bahai are small minority and nobody else believes that.

When the Mahdi appears (since he will come before Jesus), maybe half the Muslims will follow him and the other half reject him - as usual they will try to solve this by a lot of fighting and blood shed.

What is more interesting is the reaction of Christians to the Muslim Mahdi - I think some Christian leaders will accept him as a ‘true messenger’ and that will cause turmoil in the Christian world also.

As for one world government - I don’t think that is even desirable - each country has its own character and that should be preserved as separate and unique. In fact some existing countries may break up (peacefully) like Scotland, Catalonia etc. We do need to strengthen the UN however.

 

[jeffrey_erwin]

Oops! I wasn’t looking and actually meant Jeremiah 25:33

“Those slaughtered by YHWH that day will be scattered across the world from end to end. No dirge will be raised for them; no one will gather them or bury them; they will stay lying on the surface like dung.”

 

[TonyBS]

Oops! I wasn’t looking and actually meant Jeremiah 25:33

“Those slaughtered by YHWH that day will be scattered across the world from end to end. No dirge will be raised for them; no one will gather them or bury them; they will stay lying on the surface like dung.”

This is interesting - A lot of the Bible has not been given any interpretation in the Baha’i Writings. Thus we are told that when we read these we can have our own thoughts and understandings, but that is all they will be.

In this passage I see an interest, as Baha’u’llah is the 'Lord of Hosts" and the rest (verse 33 and further on) could be a reflection of what is happening on the earth as we speak.

Jeremiah 25:32Thus says the LORD of hosts, "Behold, evil is going forth From nation to nation, And a great storm is being stirred up From the remotest parts of the earth. 33"Those slain by the LORD on that day will be from one end of the earth to the other. They will not be lamented, gathered or buried; they will be like dung on the face of the ground.34…>

This is the Summons to the World from the Lord of Hosts - reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/SLH/

Regards Tony

 

[TonyBS]

Jeffrey expects some sort of nuclear holocaust, I don’t really think so. There could be some nuclear war started by accident because so many countries are armed, but neither the US or Russia will start a total war intentionally.

The real world changing event will be the Return of both the muslim Mahdi and the Return of Jesus. Apparently, the Mahdi will appear first according to most prophecies - this event will cause many conflicts and dislocation amongst people who accept him and those who do not.

I know the Bahai believe that the Bab and Bahaullah are the Return, but the Bahai are small minority and nobody else believes that.

When the Mahdi appears (since he will come before Jesus), maybe half the Muslims will follow him and the other half reject him - as usual they will try to solve this by a lot of fighting and blood shed.

What is more interesting is the reaction of Christians to the Muslim Mahdi - I think some Christian leaders will accept him as a ‘true messenger’ and that will cause turmoil in the Christian world also.

As for one world government - I don’t think that is even desirable - each country has its own character and that should be preserved as separate and unique. In fact some existing countries may break up (peacefully) like Scotland, Catalonia etc. We do need to strengthen the UN however.

I would hope not a nuclear war, in the end what will teach us not to pursue destruction of our own selves? We are slow learners it seems.

Yes we believe the return has happened and that the the very foundations of Humanity shook with this new revelation which lays all that is possible in front of us.

The Bab did come to Prepare for Baha’u’llah, the blood bath for this to happen was unheralded in religious History. Tens of thousands slaughtered for faith in such a short time. It was such a rapid change in Persia they could not control. They think they have

The one world government is a unity in diversity, how National Identities will be controlled under this is yet to be set. I think our birthplace cultures will remain as they are what add to mankinds beauty of diversity. In the end we will have to submit to the advice of the worldly governments directions but it does not have to eliminate our National Identities, it just needs to suppress the thoughts that the whole world is not for all of us.

'It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens." reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/GWB/gwb-117.html

Regards Tony