End Times Speculation the alternate approach

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I would hope not a nuclear war, in the end what will teach us not to pursue destruction of our own selves? We are slow learners it seems.

Yes we believe the return has happened and that the the very foundations of Humanity shook with this new revelation which lays all that is possible in front of us.

The Bab did come to Prepare for Baha’u’llah, the blood bath for this to happen was unheralded in religious History. Tens of thousands slaughtered for faith in such a short time. It was such a rapid change in Persia they could not control. They think they have 😉

The one world government is a unity in diversity, how National Identities will be controlled under this is yet to be set. I think our birthplace cultures will remain as they are what add to mankinds beauty of diversity. In the end we will have to submit to the advice of the worldly governments directions but it does not have to eliminate our National Identities, it just needs to suppress the thoughts that the whole world is not for all of us.

'It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens." reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/GWB/gwb-117.html

Regards Tony
I guess the only thing that will convince the Bahai that the Bab and Bahaullah are not the Mahdi and Jesus respectively, would be the actual return of the real Mahdi and Jesus.

But let me ask you again - Islamic prophecy states that the Mahdi and Jesus would be contemporaries and would actually meet and pray together after they return (although the Mahdi would return first). When did the Bab and Bahaullah meet and pray together?
 
I guess the only thing that will convince the Bahai that the Bab and Bahaullah are not the Mahdi and Jesus respectively, would be the actual return of the real Mahdi and Jesus.

But let me ask you again - Islamic prophecy states that the Mahdi and Jesus would be contemporaries and would actually meet and pray together after they return (although the Mahdi would return first). When did the Bab and Bahaullah meet and pray together?
You ask if they are who they say they are, they did not meet and pray together 😉

Their world not of this world, but we make sure we restrict them to it, this would be the answer you are looking for bahaistudies.net/meeting.html

Regards Tony
 
You ask if they are who they say they are, they did not meet and pray together 😉

Their world not of this world, but we make sure we restrict them to it, this would be the answer you are looking for bahaistudies.net/meeting.html

Regards Tony
The prophecy says that the Mahdi and Jesus will meet and conduct a prayer together with many people in attendance. This kind of non-physical meeting just does not work as a fulfillment of that prophecy.

The time for the appearance of the Mahdi is pretty close (with Jesus following soon after) - you don’t want to fail to recognize either of them. There is nothing wrong in following the Bab and Bahaullah and their teachings, but giving them such exalted positions would be a sad mistake.
 
The prophecy says that the Mahdi and Jesus will meet and conduct a prayer together with many people in attendance. This kind of non-physical meeting just does not work as a fulfillment of that prophecy.

The time for the appearance of the Mahdi is pretty close (with Jesus following soon after) - you don’t want to fail to recognize either of them. There is nothing wrong in following the Bab and Bahaullah and their teachings, but giving them such exalted positions would be a sad mistake.
The Numbers in the Bible add up, but add up very well and if we use a starting point that can prove Christs Mission from the Old Testament, it is uncanny it can also be used to p(name removed by moderator)oint the length of the message of Muhammad and the start of the Baha’i Faith in 1844.

Thus quickly…

The book of Daniel Gives a starting point, the 457 Edict to rebuild the temple and used with the 70 weeks we get to predict Christ…

"But Daniel refers especially to the third edict which was issued in the year 457 B.C. Seventy weeks make four hundred and ninety days. Each day, according to the text of the Holy Book, is a year. For in the Bible it is said: "The day of the Lord is one year.Therefore, four hundred and ninety days are four hundred and ninety years. The third edict of Artaxerxes was issued four hundred and fifty-seven years before the birth of Christ, and Christ when He was martyred and ascended was thirty-three years of age. When you add thirty-three to four hundred and fifty-seven, the result is four hundred and ninety, which is the time announced by Daniel for the manifestation of Christ. [1 Cf. Num. 14:34.]

There is more on this, but that will do for now.

If we use this same starting point of the 457 Edict and In the eighth chapter of the Book of Daniel, verse thirteen, it is said: “Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?” Then he answered (v. 14): “Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed”; (v. 17) “But he said unto me … at the time of the end shall be the vision.”

2300 - 457 = 1843 (From the date -457 to birth of Christ is 456 years) = 1844

You can see why William Miller that started the Seventh Day Adventists was excited for 1843-1844

Now If we turn to Revelation it mentions Daniel and then Gives 1260 Years in various ways in a few chapters.

It was not known by William Miller that 1844AD was also 1260AH

Thus Daniel predicted the start of the Baha’i Faith and that the revelation of Baha’u’llah concluded the Mission of Muhammad in exactly the 1260 years foretold in Revelation.

Of course this has many other aspects and other biblical dated that also can be referenced.

The Koran and Zoroaster Scriptures also show this year

Zoroastrianism Predicts 1844 for its Hushidar Door of Wisdom in terms of the religion of the Arabian, written long before the appearance of Islam When 1,260 years have elapsed from the religion of the Arabian.Hushidar will appear and the Iranians will kill him.

Islam Predicts 1844 for its Qaim Twelfth Imam, saying:
• Everything will ascend to Him on a Day that will measure a thousand years.This decodes from the AH 260 (AD 873) disappearance of the Twelfth Imam to his AH 1260 (1844) Return as the Bab
• In the year ‘GHARS’ the earth shall be illumined by his light. Abjad numerology decodes this as AH 1260 (1844)
• The year of his Revelation is identical with half of that number which is divisible by nine.This decodes as 2560 (the lowest number divisible by all nine digits), half of which renders as the year AH 1260 (1844).
• Concerning the year in which the Qa’im was to be made manifest…in the year sixty his cause shall be revealed and his name noised abroad.This decodes as AH 1260 (1844)

Regards Tony
 
• The year of his Revelation is identical with half of that number which is divisible by nine.This decodes as 2560 (the lowest number divisible by all nine digits), half of which renders as the year AH 1260 (1844).
Hi Tony, I think the number is 2520, rather than 2560.
Half of 2520 is 1260.
2520 is the lowest number divisible by all 9 digits

.
 
The Numbers in the Bible add up, but add up very well and if we use a starting point that can prove Christs Mission from the Old Testament, it is uncanny it can also be used to p(name removed by moderator)oint the length of the message of Muhammad and the start of the Baha’i Faith in 1844.

Thus quickly…

The book of Daniel Gives a starting point, the 457 Edict to rebuild the temple and used with the 70 weeks we get to predict Christ…

"But Daniel refers especially to the third edict which was issued in the year 457 B.C. Seventy weeks make four hundred and ninety days. Each day, according to the text of the Holy Book, is a year. For in the Bible it is said: "The day of the Lord is one year.Therefore, four hundred and ninety days are four hundred and ninety years. The third edict of Artaxerxes was issued four hundred and fifty-seven years before the birth of Christ, and Christ when He was martyred and ascended was thirty-three years of age. When you add thirty-three to four hundred and fifty-seven, the result is four hundred and ninety, which is the time announced by Daniel for the manifestation of Christ. [1 Cf. Num. 14:34.]

There is more on this, but that will do for now.

If we use this same starting point of the 457 Edict and In the eighth chapter of the Book of Daniel, verse thirteen, it is said: “Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?” Then he answered (v. 14): “Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed”; (v. 17) “But he said unto me … at the time of the end shall be the vision.”

2300 - 457 = 1843 (From the date -457 to birth of Christ is 456 years) = 1844

You can see why William Miller that started the Seventh Day Adventists was excited for 1843-1844

Now If we turn to Revelation it mentions Daniel and then Gives 1260 Years in various ways in a few chapters.

It was not known by William Miller that 1844AD was also 1260AH

Thus Daniel predicted the start of the Baha’i Faith and that the revelation of Baha’u’llah concluded the Mission of Muhammad in exactly the 1260 years foretold in Revelation.

Of course this has many other aspects and other biblical dated that also can be referenced.

The Koran and Zoroaster Scriptures also show this year

Zoroastrianism Predicts 1844 for its Hushidar Door of Wisdom in terms of the religion of the Arabian, written long before the appearance of Islam When 1,260 years have elapsed from the religion of the Arabian.Hushidar will appear and the Iranians will kill him.

Islam Predicts 1844 for its Qaim Twelfth Imam, saying:
• Everything will ascend to Him on a Day that will measure a thousand years.This decodes from the AH 260 (AD 873) disappearance of the Twelfth Imam to his AH 1260 (1844) Return as the Bab
• In the year ‘GHARS’ the earth shall be illumined by his light. Abjad numerology decodes this as AH 1260 (1844)
• The year of his Revelation is identical with half of that number which is divisible by nine.This decodes as 2560 (the lowest number divisible by all nine digits), half of which renders as the year AH 1260 (1844).
• Concerning the year in which the Qa’im was to be made manifest…in the year sixty his cause shall be revealed and his name noised abroad.This decodes as AH 1260 (1844)

Regards Tony
Good luck with your numerology, it is possible to play this numbers game till the cows come home.

But the following prediction is far more explicit and can not be changed by using arithmetic: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith_of_Jesus_Praying_Behind_Mahdi

As I said the only thing that will convince the Bahai will be the actually return of these two - the Mahdi and Jesus themselves, but I think you will find out for sure pretty soon.

The problem is that with so much confusion, many people may view the real Mahdi as an imposter and even worse, as the anti-Christ. There will be a division amongst all those who believe and those who do not.

As usual in the Muslim world such a division will be attempted to be resolved with blood. It remains to be seen what will happen in the Christian world.
 
The Mahdi will be Antichrist. But he will be accepted as Mahdi, Messiah, AND jesus. He will be NONE.

He is Antichrist.

Jesus will only come in GLORY.
 
The Mahdi will be Antichrist. But he will be accepted as Mahdi, Messiah, AND jesus. He will be NONE.

He is Antichrist.

Jesus will only come in GLORY.
Of course Jesus will come in ‘GLORY’, but there really no need to assume that some one else’s Messiah/Prophet is somehow evil or the AntiChrist.

If Muslims worship the same God, I am sure they can have valid spiritual leaders also.

In any case, I suggest you should follow the lead of Pope Francis - whatever he says if and when such an event occurs.
 
This applicable

“They confidently assert that such traditions as indicate the advent of the expected Qá’im have not yet been fulfilled, whilst they themselves have failed to inhale the fragrance of the meaning of these traditions, and are still oblivious of the fact that all the signs foretold have come to pass, that the way of God’s holy Cause hath been revealed, and the concourse of the faithful, swift as lightning, are, even now, passing upon that way, whilst these foolish divines wait expecting to witness the signs foretold. Say, O ye foolish ones! Wait ye even as those before you are waiting!”

“If we are not happy and joyous at this season, for what other season shall we wait and for what other time shall we look?”

reference.bahai.org/en/t/c/BWF/bwf-40.html

Regards Tony
 
“…they themselves have failed to inhale the fragrance… are still oblivious of the fact that all the signs foretold have come to pass ,”
I just gave you you an example of something foretold that has not ‘come to pass’ : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith_of_Jesus_Praying_Behind_Mahdi

It is perfectly OK if you want to be blind to everything that contradicts your beliefs, but to accuse other people of having ‘failed to inhale’ just indicates that you Bahai are smoking something that is making you delusional. You can’t just take two people of your choice, however holy they may be, and make them into the Mahdi and Jesus - a majority or at least a significant portion of humanity has to agree with you.

The Return of the Mahdi and Jesus is close, but yet to occur. The Day of Judgment has nothing to do with Bahaullah’s death and did not start a hundred years ago (otherwise so many people would not have gotten away with so much injustice in the last 100 years). Actually the Day of Judgment may have started a year back in anticipation of the two Returns - people are just recently being divided into two groups - goats and sheep. The end times have now finally arrived
 
I just gave you you an example of something foretold that has not ‘come to pass’ : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith_of_Jesus_Praying_Behind_Mahdi

It is perfectly OK if you want to be blind to everything that contradicts your beliefs, but to accuse other people of having ‘failed to inhale’ just indicates that you Bahai are smoking something that is making you delusional. You can’t just take two people of your choice, however holy they may be, and make them into the Mahdi and Jesus - a majority or at least a significant portion of humanity has to agree with you.

The Return of the Mahdi and Jesus is close, but yet to occur. The Day of Judgment has nothing to do with Bahaullah’s death and did not start a hundred years ago (otherwise so many people would not have gotten away with so much injustice in the last 100 years). Actually the Day of Judgment may have started a year back in anticipation of the two Returns - people are just recently being divided into two groups - goats and sheep. The end times have now finally arrived
Those words of wisdom are not from me

reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/KI/ki-3.html

I do not have to “Blind” anything people do that to themselves. I can but give another point that is already written. I make none of it.

It is explained in the link above.

Regards Tony
 
Hi Tony, I think the number is 2520, rather than 2560.
Half of 2520 is 1260.
2520 is the lowest number divisible by all 9 digits

.
Sorry “Dumb” Phone typing/copy issues - They are just too small to work with 😊

Regards Tony
 
Those words of wisdom are not from me

reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/KI/ki-3.html

I do not have to “Blind” anything people do that to themselves. I can but give another point that is already written. I make none of it.

It is explained in the link above.

Regards Tony
I did not claim that those are your words. I realize they are from Bahai tablets, but that does not make them true. Obviously Bahaullah may have believed that he was the Return of Jesus, but he was sadly deluded. He was a holy man with some great teachings, but that is about it. There are many such holy men, but there is only one Mahdi and one Jesus.

The only Mahdi and Jesus who are the true ones are those who fulfill prophecy like this one: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith_of_Jesus_Praying_Behind_Mahdi as well as being accepted by a significant portion of world population.

But as I said before, the end times have just begun, so we don’t need to keep arguing over this for too long.
 
I did not claim that those are your words. I realize they are from Bahai tablets, but that does not make them true. Obviously Bahaullah may have believed that he was the Return of Jesus, but he was sadly deluded. He was a holy man with some great teachings, but that is about it. There are many such holy men, but there is only one Mahdi and one Jesus.

The only Mahdi and Jesus who are the true ones are those who fulfill prophecy like this one: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith_of_Jesus_Praying_Behind_Mahdi as well as being accepted by a significant portion of world population.

But as I said before, the end times have just begun, so we don’t need to keep arguing over this for too long.
No argument from me.

Too busy trying to change myself so the world can also change. Precious little time we have to do this.

I am glad I do not have to wait like so many are 😉 Good to working at goals that will change the world. Good working besides others with the same vision Baha’i, Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist… Does not matter.

The response to the thread was expected 🤷

Regards Tony
 
No argument from me.

Too busy trying to change myself so the world can also change. Precious little time we have to do this.

I am glad I do not have to wait like so many are 😉 Good to working at goals that will change the world. Good working besides others with the same vision Baha’i, Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist… Does not matter.

The response to the thread was expected 🤷

Regards Tony
Waiting for the Returns does not mean you can not change or help the world change - you can do both while you are waiting.

The problem is that with claims like yours (the Bahai claims), it makes people suspicious of all such claims, the anticipation/expectation of the two Returns is diminished.

The tragedy for the world will be if people fail to accept and follow either the Returned Mahdi or the Returned Jesus, because that will just make the conflict and the bloodshed, between those who believe and those who do not, so much worse.

Ultimately of course, these two incarnations will succeed in their mission
 
The tragedy for the world will be if people fail to accept and follow either the Returned Mahdi or the Returned Jesus, because that will just make the conflict and the bloodshed, between those who believe and those who do not, so much worse.

Ultimately of course, these two incarnations will succeed in their mission
You have just described the world and why it is so.

God bless your wait.

Regards always Tony.
 
Of course Jesus will come in ‘GLORY’, but there really no need to assume that some one else’s Messiah/Prophet is somehow evil or the AntiChrist.

If Muslims worship the same God, I am sure they can have valid spiritual leaders also.

In any case, I suggest you should follow the lead of Pope Francis - whatever he says if and when such an event occurs.
Of course I will follow the Pope.

The Popes teach in unison with each other.
Pope Francis believes in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

The Catechism warns that before Christ’s coming, there will be a false messiah.

I don’t see why I should be learning what my Pope thinks or doesn’t from a Hindu. Sorry, no offense made by that or against you, I just mean, you NEED the background of Catholic theology, not just CNN, to understand what Francis is saying to us.
 
That’s a good thought ,and it is hard to disagree with. My take is that an awareness that End Times are imminent increases our motivation to live according to our Lord’s Teachings. If Jesus didn’t want us to think about these things at all, then why did He mention them?

When you see these things begin to take place, stand erect, hold your heads high, because your liberation is near at hand.
Thats is good point.👍
 
Mother Shipton (16th century). "The great chastisement will come when carriages

go without horses and many accidents fill the world with woe. It will come when

‘thoughts are flying round the earth in the twinkling of an eye’ , when long tunnels

are made for horseless machines, when men can fly in the air and ride under the

sea, when ships are wholly made of metal, when fire and water ‘great marvels do’,

when even the poor can read books, when many taxes are levied for war."
 
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