Engaged and discovered porn

[Geremia]

Their relationship began with a lot of physicality but for the past few months he’s told her he doesn’t want ANY physical involvement due to his Catholic beliefs about behaving themselves prior to marriage.

Being chaste does not imply not touching at all; it implies touching purely.

She’s not Catholic…

Is she becoming one? If she is not willing, and I were in your friend’s place, I would leave the relationship unless it was God’s will for me not to do so.

So from a sexual relationship to a non sexual relationship to this…

They are not married. The relationship should not be sexual but spiritual. I would receive the sacraments, especially confession, frequently. In fact everyone should go to confession weekly. I do this, and the grace I receive is amazing; I recommend it to all Catholics.

 

[Geremia]

There are psychologists, counselors, therapists and organizations that can assist with his porn choice. I wouldn’t marry him until I was sure it was totally gone.

God’s grace through the sacrament of confession is much more abundant. Confess weekly.

 

[whatevergirl]

Okay, ladies, I just have to butt in here.

The concept that one who is battling (either actively or passively) a habitual sin is less holy than you are is just not true.

You can read here on CAF constantly and ad naseum about both men and women who are battling this particular sin. Are you saying that no one should have a relationship with any of these people? None of these people are redeemable?

Why not counsel the friend to talk to her fiance about this before she makes a decision?

Reread again. The guy in question, is lying, hiding things, pretending to be a concerned religious Catholic…this is not just a porn issue. I agree, that if she were dealing with perhaps just that issue, but he was forthright…admitted he is doing wrong, etc…not acting pretending to be a devout Catholic…then, working on resolving the issues, would be a good idea. But, why should she settle for someone who is lying to her…hiding things from her…pretending to be religious…and viewing porn on top of it all? Would you suggest to your own daughter to marry a guy like that? If so…why?

I wouldn’t. I think when we give advice–.it is ok to tell someone else far removed from us to ‘stick it out and stay and try to help.’ But, if it were our own kids or family members dating someone with a myriad of dishonesty issues…we wouldn’t give the same advice. This isn’t a marriage. The guy has a number of issues…namely with being dishonest. That is more striking to me than the porn.

 

[ljprevo]

You know what, you are making and ASSumption, yeah he may very well be snicky, hiding, lying person, we DO NOT know the whole story.

Has he done something gravely wrong, yes he sure has, is he still a Catholic, yes he has, fallen from grace, sure, can he rebound, yes. Please bear in mind you read this from a 3rd party and not the horses mouth, so to cast judgement on hearsay is touching on sin on our own parts.

I recommend prayer, holding off on any marriage, try and work to weed out the sin, yes the woman needs to stay strong and he needs to repent.

We have all fallen short of the glory of God, I have as well and I am still a Catholic.

“Sins forgiven are forgive, sins retained are retained”

Please remember that.

 

[whatevergirl]

I think what’s important again to note…is breaking up with someone doesn’t mean that you are not forgiving them. I’d be with the first guy I ever dated, if I had followed that logic.

Marriage is a Sacrament, and shouldn’t be taken lightly. Engagement is a time to prepare the two for marriage. So, perhaps, if he admits that he was wrong, and really tries to correct things–yes, there is great hope. But, if he continues along lying, denying, and viewing porn…this is not someone who is ready for the Sacrament of marriage, nor is preparing.

The engagement time should be a time that a couple embraces the ideals of marriage, not insults them. We are all sinners…that doesn’t mean we need to marry someone who is not ready for the Sacrament of marriage. I’m not sure any of us (for those married) can be ‘ready’ for everything marriage might throw at them, but this man in question is not possessing the qualities of a man thinking about being a good husband.

So, again…if he fesses up, and tries to get help, and REALLY tries to change…and be an honest guy…that might be worth staying for. But, not if he continues to betray the relationship. It doesn’t make sense to give such advice to someone…to stay in a bad relationship where dishonesty is continuous.

To funnyyetsavvy–I’ll be praying for your friend and her fiance…that God will enligthen her to do what His will is, and that if she remains with this man, that he starts treating her in a positive and loving way.

 

[whatevergirl]

You know what, you are making and ASSumption, yeah he may very well be snicky, hiding, lying person, we DO NOT know the whole story.

.

Very true. I base my answer as if the story presented is the complete picture.

 

[MCGar]

I think the lying and deceit are HUGE red flags! Not *only *that but the mere fact that she doesn’t know if she should be honest and confront him about it is a BIGGER flag!

That is no way to have or start a lifelong relationship with another person. In my personal opinion, if there is alot of stuff that you can’t talk to with your future spouse, then you really don’t have an actual relationship, it’s more like a pretend relationship where each person pretends to be what the other person wants and no one knows each other at all.

While I was still engaged (married now), near the beginning of our relationship my fiancé had a very loose interest in pornography.[just an average guy that wasn’t raised strongly in the Christian faith, I was raised nonPracticing myself so I understand where he comes from]
He didn’t think it was a big deal but he didn’t have more than a mild habit of looking at it every once in a while. He was very honest with me about it and I in turn was VERY HONEST with exactly why it was wrong.
Quite frankly, he never thought about it in the terms I put it in and he realized that not only wasn’t it necessary for him but that it was infact a manner of cheating on me, not to mention a degredation of humans in general. He knew that this sort of cheating was a dealbreaker for being in a relationship with me and he made a choice. I especially got my point across to him by letting him know that if it’s ‘ok’ to see pictures of nude women on the internet because you don’t know them and aren’t going to do anything with them, then it’s ‘ok’ for men to see nude pictures of me because of the same reasons. That is when we got into the crux of what constitutes cheating.

I’m not worried about him lying or hiding it. If he ever slips up, then he’ll be honest with me about it and we’ll work on it together.

Things like this can be workable BUT NOT if there is lying and noncommunication involved. . I can’t imagine how people are ‘ready’ to marry each other, actually GIVE themselves to each other and think it’s ok to have a distance from each other where they don’t talk about certain things or lie.

I’m not trying to scold, I’m just trying to show how important these issues are.

My hubby and I had a whole list of things we talked about and we made sure that nothing between us was a shadow or not to be spoken of.

Sorry if this is so long, but no one should try to give themselves to each other if they can’t really give themselves (honesty, communication, and trust) to each other.

 

[whatevergirl]

I think the lying and deceit are HUGE red flags! Not *only *that but the mere fact that she doesn’t know if she should be honest and confront him about it is a BIGGER flag!

That is no way to have or start a lifelong relationship with another person. In my personal opinion, if there is alot of stuff that you can’t talk to with your future spouse, then you really don’t have an actual relationship, it’s more like a pretend relationship where each person pretends to be what the other person wants and no one knows each other at all.

While I was still engaged (married now), near the beginning of our relationship my fiancé had a very loose interest in pornography.[just an average guy that wasn’t raised strongly in the Christian faith, I was raised nonPracticing myself so I understand where he comes from]
He didn’t think it was a big deal but he didn’t have more than a mild habit of looking at it every once in a while. He was very honest with me about it and I in turn was VERY HONEST with exactly why it was wrong.
Quite frankly, he never thought about it in the terms I put it in and he realized that not only wasn’t it necessary for him but that it was infact a manner of cheating on me, not to mention a degredation of humans in general. He knew that this sort of cheating was a dealbreaker for being in a relationship with me and he made a choice. I especially got my point across to him by letting him know that if it’s ‘ok’ to see pictures of nude women on the internet because you don’t know them and aren’t going to do anything with them, then it’s ‘ok’ for men to see nude pictures of me because of the same reasons. That is when we got into the crux of what constitutes cheating.

I’m not worried about him lying or hiding it. If he ever slips up, then he’ll be honest with me about it and we’ll work on it together.

Things like this can be workable BUT NOT if there is lying and noncommunication involved. . I can’t imagine how people are ‘ready’ to marry each other, actually GIVE themselves to each other and think it’s ok to have a distance from each other where they don’t talk about certain things or lie.

I’m not trying to scold, I’m just trying to show how important these issues are.

My hubby and I had a whole list of things we talked about and we made sure that nothing between us was a shadow or not to be spoken of.

Sorry if this is so long, but no one should try to give themselves to each other if they can’t really give themselves (honesty, communication, and trust) to each other.

My thoughts, but your words came out much better! I agree…that’s all I’m trying to say.

Excellent post.

 

[PaulinVA]

Reread again. The guy in question, is lying, hiding things, pretending to be a concerned religious Catholic…this is not just a porn issue. I agree, that if she were dealing with perhaps just that issue, but he was forthright…admitted he is doing wrong, etc…not acting pretending to be a devout Catholic…then, working on resolving the issues, would be a good idea. But, why should she settle for someone who is lying to her…hiding things from her…pretending to be religious…and viewing porn on top of it all? Would you suggest to your own daughter to marry a guy like that? If so…why?

People are complicated. You are not in a position to make the determination that he is pretending to be religious/spiritual/holy whatever. Perhaps he is making changes in his life to try to live the Gospel, and he is still struggling with this issue?

I would tell my daughters that they need to know the man and have discussions about sin and hope and goals and faith. Is he open to having the discussions? Does he respect you?

I don’t think battling sin is a deal breaker. I think battling sin is a good thing.

But answer this - you hang around here a lot. If you were a guy, would you ever admit a porn addiction to your wife, based on the reactions of women here to the mention of porn? You are not a real receptive audience.

 

[ljprevo]

I agree that she needs to proceed with caution and alot of soul searching and guidence. To recommend she leave and throw away the key does not sound like the best advice either.

I do recommend putting a complete halt to marriage at this point. Yes marriage is VERY serious and should not be taken lightly. I do believe if this couple were to marry, they need a lot more preperation.

Even a separation for awhile is not out of the question, maybe a very good wake up call to the man to see what is more important, his life, his eternal souls, possibly his future wife, or pleasure that is temporary in the form of lust and perversion in that of porn.

If he truely wishes to leave the lustful ways I do feel he needs to take the proper steps and prove to this girl that he has, and will work everyday to stay away from it.

If HE does not do that, I would THEN recommend the woman to really think hard about staying with him.

 

[jwashu]

Personally I would be more worried about the lying and find out WHY he is lying.

The stuff about being a good Catholic is moot. While the Church teaches that looking at Porn and Masturbation is a mortal sin there are a lot of mitigating circumstances to the masturbation that may or may not make it mortal.

However having intercourse outside of marriage is definitely a mortal sin and WORSE you are causing the person you love to sin as well.

For all we know his intentions may be pure, she needs to confront him on this and ask him to be honest. They should talk to his Priest or their marriage counselor about this. My guess is that the Priest would consider masturbation a mortal sin but present the fact that his intentions, while misguided, may have been correct… to keep her from bring brought into the sin as well.

The thing is that the world is so sexualized I would hate to see someone written off who could truly be trying to do the right thing.

Address the honesty issue and I feel everything else will fall into place.

Joe

 

[whatevergirl]

I agree that she needs to proceed with caution and alot of soul searching and guidence. To recommend she leave and throw away the key does not sound like the best advice either.

I do recommend putting a complete halt to marriage at this point. Yes marriage is VERY serious and should not be taken lightly. I do believe if this couple were to marry, they need a lot more preperation.

Even a separation for awhile is not out of the question, maybe a very good wake up call to the man to see what is more important, his life, his eternal souls, possibly his future wife, or pleasure that is temporary in the form of lust and perversion in that of porn.

If he truely wishes to leave the lustful ways I do feel he needs to take the proper steps and prove to this girl that he has, and will work everyday to stay away from it.

If HE does not do that, I would THEN recommend the woman to really think hard about staying with him.

agreed.

 

[whatevergirl]

Everything begins with communication. I would absolutely discuss things with my bf, if I were in the shoes of the OP’s friend. Not just sprint out the door. I didn’t think I needed to actually spell that out. If she turns a blind eye…then there are more red flags that we are privvy to.

My replies were for if the man does not change, the lying continues, and he denies viewing porn, etc…that would not be a good foundation to begin a marriage upon.

 

[hasikelee]

Interesting that he shut down their physical relationship completely. Especially as she is not Catholic. And a complete lack of a physical relationship is not a Catholic dating requirement.

You could say this action was an attempt on his part to try to be chaste, albeit mistakenly…but it is coupled with hiding internet porn.

Ending a physical relationship + internet porn usually = a huge addiction and not just a little sightseeing.

Sounds like they both want to marry blind! He is busy lying about it and she is busy pretending not to know. lol!

 

[kage_ar]

This woman has a 5 year old daughter… then, her first priority is to raise that daughter.

When the daughter is raised and through school, then will be plenty of time to date and find a new husband.

 

[MCGar]

I’m not saying she should marry this man or not marry him ultimately but I do have to respectively disagree with the last post.

We never know that we’ll have plenty of time later in life to date and marry. I’m not saying one should marry in fear of not having a chance to later on, but one should never placidly proclaim the assurance of being able to marry later on in life.

Also, I will take the Virgin Mary’s example that she didn’t raise her son on her own, but married and had a foster father for our Lord. Father figures are extremely important as part of raising children.

Again I’m not saying one should marry in order to give a father figure to their child, but we shouldn’t think that we should avoid marriage because of an existing child.

God Bless

 

[kage_ar]

I’m not saying she should marry this man or not marry him ultimately but I do have to respectively disagree with the last post.

We never know that we’ll have plenty of time later in life to date and marry. I’m not saying one should marry in fear of not having a chance to later on, but one should never placidly proclaim the assurance of being able to marry later on in life.

Also, I will take the Virgin Mary’s example that she didn’t raise her son on her own, but married and had a foster father for our Lord. Father figures are extremely important as part of raising children.

Again I’m not saying one should marry in order to give a father figure to their child, but we shouldn’t think that we should avoid marriage because of an existing child.

God Bless

Mary was married before the birth of her Child, and He had no earthly father. Not the same at all.

 

[Ruthie]

Marriage is togetherness. I don’t mean not having boundaries - but I do mean complete honesty.

There were things my DH knew I wouldn’t like - but he made sure I knew about them **before **we were married. I got to make my own decision as to whether I could live with them or not. And I did the same for him.

To hide faults before marriage is a big mistake. Essentially, you are tricking someone into marrying a person you aren’t.

If I was her, I’d say something like, “I know about the porn; what else are you hiding from me?”

Yes, I see red flags all over this.

Ruthie, grumpy and ill.

 

[funnyyetsavvy]

Ok a few things…

She didn’t pretend that she didn’t see it because she was in denial. She was shocked and wanted to think before she acted.

She is in RCIA.

She does love him, she’s dated him for a year and a half. He’s been there for her through a lot.

I think what she finds hard to understand is that they had a discussion about things like this a long time ago, and she gave him every opportunity to tell her without feeling judged or like the relationship would end if he would just be honest about anything that might be an issue in the future. She even mentioned pornography at that time.

He is a cradle Catholic and he goes to Mass every week and confession during Holy Week.

I’m thinking of a poll question about this…I’m sure others have faced this kind of challenge.

 

[kage_ar]

He is a cradle Catholic and he goes to Mass every week and confession during Holy Week.

Confession once a year?

Big huge red flashing honking warning light.

(As if there needs to be another)…