Engaged Encounter Retreat & lack of marriage prep?!?

[PatienceAndLove]

My fiance and I are going next weekend, so I will provide a report
My parents told me that their EE weekend was interesting- co-habitating couples protesting that they couldn’t sleep together. They told me a few couples moved into their own apartments, or even called off the wedding, and in one case the relationship, after attending EE because things were brought up and explored that the couple had never discussed before.
I am pretty much betting that the fiance (a baptist) and I are going to be better prepared for the actual sacrament on our own than what we are going to get from EE.
Like I said, though, I will report back when I get back in town!

 

[orionsbelt]

I’m going back quite a few years but our experience with EE was very similar to that of the original poster.

We were not required to go by our priest but we decided to go voluntarily.

The whole weekend was very watered down. Most of the couples did not take it very seriously and it was distracting.

The comment by one poster that the program is designed for the lowest common denominator hit it on the head. If you’re serious, it is a waste of time because it is too generic. If you’re not serious it is a waste of time because of you. Maybe a few people get something out of it.

I would NOT recommend it to anyone who takes their faith and marriage preparation seriously.

The one highlight for the weekend came during the general discussion/Q&A period. One non-Catholic participant asked about promising to raise any children in the Catholic Faith and what burden that put on him. Someone else responded “We don’t want you, just your kids.” At least I came away from the weekend with a good laugh.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

The comment by one poster that the program is designed for the lowest common denominator hit it on the head. If you’re serious, it is a waste of time because it is too generic. If you’re not serious it is a waste of time because of you. Maybe a few people get something out of it.

I would NOT recommend it to anyone who takes their faith and marriage preparation seriously.

Well, most diocese require it for getting married, so it’s not really an option. Unless the couple chooses to do Pre-Cana, but I don’t know about those, so I can’t report.

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

Well, most diocese require it for getting married, so it’s not really an option. Unless the couple chooses to do Pre-Cana, but I don’t know about those, so I can’t report.

I know that having the engaged encounter/marriage prep is a requirement of the church for marriage, however, my wife and I feel that when we went (over 5 years ago) that is was (for lack of a better term) a joke. We were able to leave early because there was a playoff game involving a local football team. We did get a little bit out of the weekend, we were able to spend time learning a little bit more about each other, but not on the level that we were thinking.

It was almost as if they were saying to love each other and try to deal with the finances. It is as if they do not want to step on any toes and tell them what living a Catholic married life is. That is what is unfortunate. A brief discussion of NFP will not cut it. It needs to be more indepth and we feel that an NFP class should be a requirement.

Even the FOCCUS test to us was not very helpful. According to that we should not have gotten married. Guess they were wrong about that one.

Our Catholic faith is what has kept us growing strong as a married couple along with practicing NFP. We feel that along with NFP that Christopher West’s book should be required reading for all engaged couples. To know how to love your spouse as Jesus loves the Church is an amazing blessing. Christopher West opened my eyes to the love and respect that I should show to my wife and I feel that the “classes” should be able to do this as well.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

It was almost as if they were saying to love each other and try to deal with the finances. It is as if they do not want to step on any toes and tell them what living a Catholic married life is. That is what is unfortunate. A brief discussion of NFP will not cut it. It needs to be more indepth and we feel that an NFP class should be a requirement.

It is because too many authority figures in the Church are afraid that people won’t accept the Church’s teachings, and that’s because we are trying to change
I think ALL engaged Catholic couples should HAVE to go through a full NFP course. It’s amazing what my FH and I’s communication has become since we started NFP. As he says “Once we talk about your mucus, we can talk about anything”

Our Catholic faith is what has kept us growing strong as a married couple along with practicing NFP. We feel that along with NFP that Christopher West’s book should be required reading for all engaged couples. To know how to love your spouse as Jesus loves the Church is an amazing blessing. Christopher West opened my eyes to the love and respect that I should show to my wife and I feel that the “classes” should be able to do this as well.

I am planning on picking up West and reading him, and then passing it on to my FH. What about THe Five Love Languages?
And I am thinking that it will be my Catholic faith, and his respect for and willingness to learn about the Catholic faith, that will keep our marriage as it is supposed to be.

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

It’s amazing what my FH and I’s communication has become since we started NFP. As he says “Once we talk about your mucus, we can talk about anything”

That is GREAT!! I agree, as you know, that NFP should be required.

I am planning on picking up West and reading him, and then passing it on to my FH. What about THe Five Love Languages?
And I am thinking that it will be my Catholic faith, and his respect for and willingness to learn about the Catholic faith, that will keep our marriage as it is supposed to be.

Both you and your FH will LOVE Christopher West’s book! It is an easy read and he does not hold back on anything. Let me know how you like it. I have not heard of the book ‘The Five Languages of Love’ but I may look into it. To me, it seems like you have the right attitude about marriage and you will be blessed by our Lord in that holy sacrament with your future husband. When is the big day?

Also, I love your link to Fr. Larry’s website in your signature. I have 5 of his talks on my mp3 player and have listened to them so many times. After he gave a mission here, I bought them on VHS, he is such a passionate man of God. God bless Fr. Larry!

 

[PatienceAndLove]

Both you and your FH will LOVE Christopher West’s book! It is an easy read and he does not hold back on anything. Let me know how you like it.

As soon as summer rolls around and I am not up to my eyeballs in John Donne, and I will pick the book up and let you know!

I have not heard of the book ‘The Five Languages of Love’ but I may look into it. To me, it seems like you have the right attitude about marriage and you will be blessed by our Lord in that holy sacrament with your future husband. When is the big day?

The Five Love Languages
The Five Love Languages Men’s Edition
The big day is 25 May 2007 (30 days, 6 hours and 37 minutes…but who’s counting? )

Also, I love your link to Fr. Larry’s website in your signature. I have 5 of his talks on my mp3 player and have listened to them so many times. After he gave a mission here, I bought them on VHS, he is such a passionate man of God. God bless Fr. Larry!

He’s my pastor

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

The big day is 25 May 2007 (30 days, 6 hours and 37 minutes…but who’s counting? )

He’s my pastor

Fr. Larry doing your wedding?

Since he is your pastor the only thing that I can say to you is…LUCKY!!!

What a blessing for you. I listen to his homilies on his website, when I met him, he was the nicest person and so down to earth. He has been a big inspiration in my life and in my faith life.

Do you get a chance to know him? Or since he is so busy is he not available that often? His passion inspires me.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

Fr. Larry doing your wedding?

Since he is your pastor the only thing that I can say to you is…LUCKY!!!

No. I just moved up here to Erie a few months back, and my FH and I were already going through Marriage Prep with the pastor from my old church, and who was the headmaster of my sister’s High School. I feel better about getting married by a Priest I have known for a few years. Although my FH and I have expressed how crazy cool it would be for Father Larry to do the ceremony. Even with FH being Baptist, he loves and gets a lot out of Father Larry’s homilies and talks.

What a blessing for you. I listen to his homilies on his website, when I met him, he was the nicest person and so down to earth. He has been a big inspiration in my life and in my faith life.

Do you get a chance to know him? Or since he is so busy is he not available that often? His passion inspires me.

Thank you. I had listened to him a few times, and had no idea that he was a Pastor up here, and then I walked into St. Joe’s and BOOM there he was! He gets all excited and bounces up and down on his toes, and it’s craziness!

He can be… authoritative at times.
Rebuking people talking after Good Friday service: “It’s Good Friday. We will maintain silence and respect in the Church.”
To excessive talking in the sanctuary: “Quiet please, we are in the presence of Christ”
But he also does confession before Mass, so that makes me happy.

He is a wonderful guy, and it is fun to see him with the kids from Prep. He has also stealth hugged my FH a few times, and that is always entertaining.
Other than after Mass, I have no talked to him, although I would like to have him over for dinner and to bless the house once FH and I are married and moved into our new house.

 

[rwoehmke]

My parents told me that their EE weekend was interesting- co-habitating couples protesting that they couldn’t sleep together. They told me a few couples moved into their own apartments, or even called off the wedding, and in one case the relationship, after attending EE because things were brought up and explored that the couple had never discussed before.
I am pretty much betting that the fiance (a baptist) and I are going to be better prepared for the actual sacrament on our own than what we are going to get from EE.

My wife and I were on Marriage Encounters teams for several years. Some of the team mates were doing EE’s also and we heard that when EE accomplishes some of the above, it is working. It isn’t just designed as educational, but to push into the open stuff which may be real red flags for an upcoming marriage. Better to learn before than after the marriage that it isn’t going to work. Additionally there are two kinds of EE out there, Those sponsored and put on by World Wide Marriage Encounter which is oriented to a particular Faith and those by National Marriage Encounter which are faith oriented but ecumenical.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

Well, T and I got back from EE a few hours ago.
I was disappointed. I was all excited, esp. after what my parents told me about theirs (lots of thinking time, lots of discussion time, bonding, crying, etc…)
We got scripted talks, 10 minutes to write, and about 10 to talk. The NFP and sexuality got 15 minutes each, and then we were off and running with another topic.
Cohabitation was brought up and then put down again “don’t ask, don’t tell” and “co-habitation has no affect on divorce rates, though bishops may tell you otherwise”
The spirituality of the marriage was weakly addressed, as was the importance of children’s spirituality and raising them Catholic.
Way too touchy-feely, lets-not-offend-anyone for me.
I am sure others got something, but I didn’t.

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

Well, T and I got back from EE a few hours ago.
I was disappointed. I was all excited, esp. after what my parents told me about theirs (lots of thinking time, lots of discussion time, bonding, crying, etc…)
We got scripted talks, 10 minutes to write, and about 10 to talk. The NFP and sexuality got 15 minutes each, and then we were off and running with another topic.
Cohabitation was brought up and then put down again “don’t ask, don’t tell” and “co-habitation has no affect on divorce rates, though bishops may tell you otherwise”
The spirituality of the marriage was weakly addressed, as was the importance of children’s spirituality and raising them Catholic.
Way too touchy-feely, lets-not-offend-anyone for me.
I am sure others got something, but I didn’t.

So sad. Was this through St. Joseph Church Bread of Life? I sure hope not. I think that Fr. Larry would take this more serious, maybe you should talk with him about this?

 

[setter]

Well, T and I got back from EE a few hours ago.
I was disappointed. I was all excited, esp. after what my parents told me about theirs (lots of thinking time, lots of discussion time, bonding, crying, etc…)
We got scripted talks, 10 minutes to write, and about 10 to talk. The NFP and sexuality got 15 minutes each, and then we were off and running with another topic.
Cohabitation was brought up and then put down again “don’t ask, don’t tell” and “co-habitation has no affect on divorce rates, though bishops may tell you otherwise”
The spirituality of the marriage was weakly addressed, as was the importance of children’s spirituality and raising them Catholic.
Way too touchy-feely, lets-not-offend-anyone for me.
I am sure others got something, but I didn’t.

Does it get any worse than this??? …it all sounds so mushy and lukewarm …no wonder God stated “So, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew you out of my mouth.” Revelation 3: 16

You may consider writing a feedback letter to the organizers, affiliated parish and cc the diocesan with a balanced critical feedback and how you found your expereince helpful/not helpful. I would include quotes.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

So sad. Was this through St. Joseph Church Bread of Life? I sure hope not. I think that Fr. Larry would take this more serious, maybe you should talk with him about this?

Nope, it was through the diocese Family Life office.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

You may consider writing a feedback letter to the organizers, affiliated parish and cc the diocesan with a balanced critical feedback and how you found your expereince helpful/not helpful. I would include quotes.

We did evaluations at the end of the retreat, and I wrote an additional page of feedback that I included.
I will be writing a letter to the Family Life office and CC-ing the Bishop.

 

[tee_eff_em]

Nope, it was through the diocese Family Life office.

I’m sorry to hear of your poor experience. But to add to what [post=2144663]rwoehmke[/post] has written: some areas have Engaged Encounter, and some have pretenders to that program. If your instruction was within the Diocese of Erie, you did not experience an Engaged Encounter retreat. Their independent program is *“Engagement Encounter” *and is not affiliated with the national organization and its outline for weekends. (I could be mistaken: I believe it once was affiliated, but broke away many years ago)

If you went to a neighboring diocese (Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Greensburg, among others) then it was more likely an Engaged Encounter weekend.

tee

 

[PatienceAndLove]

some areas have Engaged Encounter, and some have pretenders to that program. If your instruction was within the Diocese of Erie, you did not experience an Engaged Encounter retreat. Their independent program is *“Engagement Encounter” *and is not affiliated with the national organization and its outline for weekends.

Gotcha!
Well, then that’s prolly the issue. Look at them confusing me with the similar names…

Hrm… the stickers and such we recieved all had the Engaged Encounter symbol. Darn them and their deception.

 

[Dakota_Maverick]

I think it’s obvious we aren’t adept in the church at pre-cana type courses and equally and more so non marriage supportive after the sacrament.

We need a Ratzinger to develope a program for couples considering marriage and some programs

I think there should be some footnotes by my fav marriage resources…
maritalhealing.com/conflicts.php

marriagebuilders.com/index.html

and Steve Wood’s how to choose a Husband/wife books.

One huge deficit I’ve encountered is that the ideals of marriage are given in most Catholic writings - but how to approach it step by step is almost always missing.

If I told you it was alright to sail and didn’t tell you what equipment was needed, how to check it to see if it was sail worthy and what to do step by step to not only prevent disaster but to make sailing enjoyable for a long long time and where to go to get answers - what good is it?

 

[PatienceAndLove]

Question- When receiving the Sacrament of marriage, is the couple conferring the Sacrament upon each other? That’s what Engagement Encounter told us this weekend.

 

[tee_eff_em]

Question- When receiving the Sacrament of marriage, is the couple conferring the Sacrament upon each other? That’s what Engagement Encounter told us this weekend.

If you are marrying in the Latin rite that is correct. In the Eastern rites the priest is the minister of the sacrament. Catechism:

1623 In the Latin Church, it is ordinarily understood that the spouses, as ministers of Christ’s grace, mutually confer upon each other the sacrament of Matrimony by expressing their consent before the Church. In the Eastern liturgies the minister of this sacrament (which is called “Crowning”) is the priest or bishop who, after receiving the mutual consent of the spouses, successively crowns the bridegroom and the bride as a sign of the marriage covenant.

tee