Engaged Living Arrangements (Duplex Neighbors?)

[tpfom]

Hello everyone, this is my first post in this forum although I’ve been a longtime lurker. I’ve gained a lot of wisdom from just reading other threads here, but I have seemingly unanswered question on which I hoping people would share their thoughts.

I’ll set the context. I’ve recently graduated from university in my hometown, and am recently engaged, I’m a cradle catholic, she came into the Church the Easter 2011 and the faith is the keystone of our relationship. My fiance is also recently graduated from university. My lease on my apartment near campus is running out soon and I wont be renewing due to high rates because of campus proximity, and my fiance is from another state so her dorm arrangements are also going to be no longer available. She will be moving to my hometown this fall. We’re both blessed to be debt free thankfully, but being fresh on todays job market means we aren’t the most financially well off people in town. Our engagement is planned to be around 2 years, so we’ll be needing a semi-long term living arrangement. Chastity is a major focus of our relationship, and as such we’re definitely absolutely NOT going to be cohabitating. We’re very cautious about the time we spend alone as it is, living together in the same space all the time would be just too hard. It’s very good to have the ability to go home ya know.

So in my apartment listing browsing I’ve come across a few duplexes with both sides available, that fit our price range, amenities, and neighborhood area desires, and keep us out of the apartment complex madness that I’ve had very bad experiences with before. The way most of these duplexes work is that it’s a 2 story/side by side building, with an apartment on each floor/side and 2 separate entrance. We would essentially be neighbors, which eliminates one of the main downsides to a duplex, because what better neighbor could you have than your future spouse (hopefully ). We also would be able to cut out a lot of travel time/costs going seeing each other, could share groceries costs, internet could be shared with a good router, we could even have a shared pet that could hang out in either place and share the cost of that as well. This arrangement would be, as you can see just by some of the things I’ve listed, very advantageous financially as well as making our living arrangements much more enjoyable and under our control.

So here come the question… What would you think of this kind of living arrangement? We would be living close together, but not with each other so the temptation to sin would be much less than cohabitating, but maybe more than if we lived in a completely separate area… If not then what is the right amount of space? Would separate buildings in the same apartment complex be enough, what would the line be? I know a big aspect of this has to do with where we are at with our chastity, for the record we’re in a good place after a lot of growth from the beginning of our relationship (and a lot of help and intercession from Mama Mary and St. Joseph). I’m confident that with completely separate apartments we would be pretty safe, but I guess the big thing I’m wondering about is what does it look like from the outside. I have no desire to be scandalous as our relationship has been a good witness to those both in and not in the faith, and a big problem with cohabitation other than temptation to sin, is not being a good witness to chastity.

Well there it is, sorry it ended up being very round about but I wanted to get the whole situation down context and all. I would really appreciate your thoughts, and please do be blatantly honest. I promise I won’t take anything personally. If you think its a stupid/bad/good/wierd idea say what you feel. I’m just trying to gauge opinions outside my own

Thank you, and God Bless. Pax et Caritas!

 

[thewanderer]

I see no problem with this arrangement.

Congratulations on your recent engagement!

 

[Jimdandy]

"…both blessed to be debt free…"

So, why wait 2 yrs? Plan for a sooner wedding!

 

[anp1215]

This is really up to you and your fiance. It’s not cohabiting because they are separate apartments. So you just have to make a judgment call. If you do not struggle with chastity, it would most likely be fine. If you often find yourselves struggling to keep your hands off each other, it might not be a good idea.

If you do decide to have this living arrangement, you could maybe set some ground rules. Like not being over past a certain time, etc.

Congrats!

 

[runningdude]

"…both blessed to be debt free…"

So, why wait 2 yrs? Plan for a sooner wedding!

Best solution

 

[underacloud]

Yes, why a two year engagement?

I see nothing technically wrong with the suggested arrangement. But it will be how you deal with the practical issues that will cause potential problems and the temptation to push boundaries. You’ll spend time together, at each others place. It would be easy to get into a habit of sharing every meal and leisure time. You might have dinner, watch some TV, and then when the night gets on and it’s bed time, the temptation to stay put might be difficult. Where will you draw the line in terms of spending time together alone?

While it is technically not cohabitating, it may on a practical level be no different.

 

[Kathryn_Ann]

How refreshing to see a young :knight1:gentleman care about such things!

May I ask: Does the young lady have parents/family? Just wondering what they might think.

I also wonder, could the wedding be earlier? That would be a solution, and since you say you’re debt free…why not?

I’m an old - fashioned "youngish" Grandmother with a Daughter and Grand-Daughter, so I look at things from the Old School perspective. It’s wonderful that you are trying so very hard to to the right thing, when so many engaged people “shack up” for years and think nothing of it.

I think it is a fine thing to worry about a young ladies reputation.:angel1: I know, you’re engaged, and it’s a duplex after all. Have you talked to your priest about this possible arrangement?

There is the scripture “Abstain from all appearance of evil.” I doubt that in this age of loose morals that very many would condemn this duplex arrangement, and I think it is commendable to be thinking about your fiancee’s future. Treating her with such respect is a wonderful beginning and I think she is a very lucky young lady.

I would not judge you, and I think that you are doing the right thing if you ask your parish priest about this arrangement.

God bless all young people trying to do the right thing.You’re both in my best prayers. :grouphug::harp::heaven:

Kathryn Ann:heaven:

 

[tpfom]

Thank you everyone for your responses! I appreciate it so much

As for the 2 year engagement we decided on it, because we wanted the start to be entirely focused on continual discernment, and preparation for marriage without the distraction of planning the wedding. I guess I consider the engagement as needing our full focus rather than it being just a transitory planning stage for the wedding…

The Holy Father said “Learning to love each other as a couple is a wonderful journey, yet it requires a demanding ‘apprenticeship.’ The period of engagement, very necessary in order to form a couple, is a time of expectation and preparation that needs to be lived in purity of gesture and words. It allows you to mature in love, in concern and in attention for each other; it helps you to practice self-control and to develop your respect for each other. These are the characteristics of true love that does not place emphasis on seeking its own satisfaction or its own welfare. In your prayer together, ask the Lord to watch over and increase your love and to purify it of all selfishness.”

We’re looking at a time between 18 months and 2 years, which also allows us to get the best rates on everything for the wedding by getting it in advance. Even though we’re debt free, at the moment we don’t have steady jobs, and our degrees wont be securing us anything high paying off the bat. Taking time also allows us to prepare financially for marriage, and possibly buy a house to start our family in. It’s just how we’re approaching the engagement… do yall disagree? I haven’t yet met with

I agree setting new and firmer boundaries, we already have late night alone time boundaries in place, as well as semi curfew so not to be tempted into “I’ll just stay the night” We’ve been there in our relationship, we know the temptation well unfortunately, and stay very vigilant against it with the help of the Holy Family. Since my relationship with the Blessed Mother has grown she has really blessed our relationship in chastity and obedience

Once again thank you so much for helping, and if you’re just now reading this please keep responding I want as many perspectives to this as I can get! God Bless!

 

[anp1215]

Thank you everyone for your responses! I appreciate it so much

As for the 2 year engagement we decided on it, because we wanted the start to be entirely focused on continual discernment, and preparation for marriage without the distraction of planning the wedding. I guess I consider the engagement as needing our full focus rather than it being just a transitory planning stage for the wedding…

The Holy Father said “Learning to love each other as a couple is a wonderful journey, yet it requires a demanding ‘apprenticeship.’ The period of engagement, very necessary in order to form a couple, is a time of expectation and preparation that needs to be lived in purity of gesture and words. It allows you to mature in love, in concern and in attention for each other; it helps you to practice self-control and to develop your respect for each other. These are the characteristics of true love that does not place emphasis on seeking its own satisfaction or its own welfare. In your prayer together, ask the Lord to watch over and increase your love and to purify it of all selfishness.”

We’re looking at a time between 18 months and 2 years, which also allows us to get the best rates on everything for the wedding by getting it in advance. Even though we’re debt free, at the moment we don’t have steady jobs, and our degrees wont be securing us anything high paying off the bat. Taking time also allows us to prepare financially for marriage, and possibly buy a house to start our family in. It’s just how we’re approaching the engagement… do yall disagree? I haven’t yet met with

I agree setting new and firmer boundaries, we already have late night alone time boundaries in place, as well as semi curfew so not to be tempted into “I’ll just stay the night” We’ve been there in our relationship, we know the temptation well unfortunately, and stay very vigilant against it with the help of the Holy Family. Since my relationship with the Blessed Mother has grown she has really blessed our relationship in chastity and obedience

Once again thank you so much for helping, and if you’re just now reading this please keep responding I want as many perspectives to this as I can get! God Bless!

You sound like an awesome person who has their priorities in order. There’s nothing wrong with the long engagement if that’s what you want.

Think about it this way, we tell couples that they should be prepared to have children when they marry, because part of the vocation to marriage is being open to life. So if it takes this couple two years to get themselves ready for that, that’s fine!

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I think its a bad idea and that over the course of the next 18-24 months you will end up living together. You want to share groceries and a pet? Ultimately you will end up spending every meal and all of your free time together. With shared groceries and a pet you will share finances. If this is how you are going to live you should probably just get married. You’ll be living like it anyway, minus the sex. (if your willpower actually holds, which I seriously doubt.)

 

[Kathryn_Ann]

Hi, tpfom,

Again, you sound like a very caring young Catholic gentleman who desires to do the right thing. In reading your recent post, I see that you although you are debt- free, there are no jobs yet, as you are both new graduates, and that your fiancee’ is planning to uproot herself from her hometown to live near you, (possibly in the duplex you hope to find.)

While I understand the idea of the plan (I imagine you must have access to down payments, and some needed funds?) I wanted to ask again, does the young lady have parents or siblings? If so, where do they live now? Is there anyone close enough to the town you want to make your joint home who would let her stay with them? A trusted family in the parish? :angel1:

I worry that the duplex idea requires her, before you two are married, to find work in your town, and require her signature on a lease or mortgage, all very grown up, but something usually reserved for already- married couples.

I mention all this because my daughter went through the same situation of having a fiance’ in another town, and they were, for a very brief time, contemplating her moving up there “to get settled in” before the marriage, i.e. for my daughter to leave the safety of her home and find a job in her fiance’s town without benefit or protection of marriage beforehand.

Of course I said no.* :tsktsk:He *would go ahead of her and make a place for them to live AFTER the wedding. Her fiance’ came to visit our home many times in the interim, and they had already known each other for several years during college. After marriage, my daughter actually worked full time as her new husband completed grad and medical school. His parents graciously helped him finance down payments on that first apartment and we all pitched in to ease the way. This is not always possible.

The focus so often during the engagement time is to anticipate all the drudgery :bangheadf moneymaking, jobs, housing, etc., quite a bit of scrambling around, rather than get to know each other outside of these angst- ridden challenges. So, naturally, my heart goes out to all young couples facing these very grown up challenges.

Some here would advise marrying earlier, some would say wait even longer than you had planned. The choice of course is yours.

As a mother of a now-grown up Daughter and a young Grand-daughter, my perhaps old-fashioned values may only slightly differ from yours. Bravo to you :knight1:for sensing that this is a time to take all things into consideration and to truly want to do the right thing.

I greatly admire your true sense of chivalry and hope you’ll discuss any questions you have with your parish priest and your fiancee’ (and if she has a family, with them as well.)

I pray earnestly that all those around you with different viewpoints will admire your courage and morality. We of the older generation only want to encourage the best ideals. If you or I are old fashioned, it is because we hold to tenets of our faith that teach us to always consider another person’s future as well as our own. In any case, I can’t help but sense that you two are going to be just fine!

Best wishes,
Kathryn Ann:heaven:

 

[tpfom]

I think its a bad idea and that over the course of the next 18-24 months you will end up living together. You want to share groceries and a pet? Ultimately you will end up spending every meal and all of your free time together. With shared groceries and a pet you will share finances. If this is how you are going to live you should probably just get married. You’ll be living like it anyway, minus the sex. (if your willpower actually holds, which I seriously doubt.)

Thank you for your honesty! Unfortunately as a newly engaged couple we can’t as you say “just get married”. In our diocese we at minimum have to start our preparation for marriage 6 months prior to the wedding. We’re also not looking to do minimums when it comes to our vocations. A priest does at least years of discernment and preparation for his vocation, because once it is done it cannot be undone, something like that shouldn’t be entered lightly I feel. I think that’s why people find themselves in situations that they feel they have no recourse but to divorce. I think we owe it to God and ourselves to take our time in prayer and discernment in unity for our unity. I guess I don’t understand what the rush is…

Also I agree wholeheartedly that on my own willpower I would undoubtedly fall. Satan is quite good at convincing people that they are strong enough to do it on their own strength. Luckily I’ve wised up to that folly, and brought in some ringers. The Blessed Mother and her most chaste spouse. Also being able to regularly receive Christ in the Eucharist just makes things totally unfair. My relationship is chaste and strong because at it’s center is not us, but Christ.

Hi, tpfom,

Again, you sound like a very caring young Catholic gentleman who desires to do the right thing. In reading your recent post, I see that you although you are debt- free, there are no jobs yet, as you are both new graduates, and that your fiancee’ is planning to uproot herself from her hometown to live near you, (possibly in the duplex you hope to find.)

While I understand the idea of the plan (I imagine you must have access to down payments, and some needed funds?) I wanted to ask again, does the young lady have parents or siblings? If so, where do they live now? Is there anyone close enough to the town you want to make your joint home who would let her stay with them? A trusted family in the parish? :angel1:

I worry that the duplex idea requires her, before you two are married, to find work in your town, and require her signature on a lease or mortgage, all very grown up, but something usually reserved for already- married couples.

I mention all this because my daughter went through the same situation of having a fiance’ in another town, and they were, for a very brief time, contemplating her moving up there “to get settled in” before the marriage, i.e. for my daughter to leave the safety of her home and find a job in her fiance’s town without benefit or protection of marriage beforehand.

Of course I said no.* :tsktsk:He *would go ahead of her and make a place for them to live AFTER the wedding. Her fiance’ came to visit our home many times in the interim, and they had already known each other for several years during college. After marriage, my daughter actually worked full time as her new husband completed grad and medical school. His parents graciously helped him finance down payments on that first apartment and we all pitched in to ease the way. This is not always possible.

The focus so often during the engagement time is to anticipate all the drudgery :bangheadf moneymaking, jobs, housing, etc., quite a bit of scrambling around, rather than get to know each other outside of these angst- ridden challenges. So, naturally, my heart goes out to all young couples facing these very grown up challenges.
:heaven:

Thank you so much for your concern its greatly appreciated. Its a beautiful act of charity to be concerned for a total stranger

She’s leaving home regardless, she wants to live in my hometown, and she is going to have a rental here. I’ve offered to come live where she is, or even else where and her answer was no. She has little family, and they’re all back in her homestate… Her mother is supportive as a mother, but not from a faith aspect as she’s actively non-religious, her father is a Jehovah’s witness in all out boycott of me, because she came into the Church after we started dating. We do have jobs, just not jobs we will be able to be raising a family on, at least not yet… I have enough money for living on my own. As does she, in fact she’s more financially stable that I am. In this situation our leases would be independent of each other, as independent as if we were living across the city from each other. We don’t have joint checking, savings, piggy banks or anything of that sort. Buying groceries together would enable us to buy bulk which is cheaper. I agree that engagement for the mass majority of people is a helter skelter tornado of planning of what “I want” and what “she wants”, and very little of silence, stillness and listening for what exactly God wants from things. What better reason to take our time in our engagement?

The first step on our list is having a meeting with our parish priest, we just haven’t had a chance yet. When I said recently engaged, I truly meant it literally. This past week! We’re also lucky enough to have lots of supportive young married couples around us to help us both with prayer and advice.

Obviously I’m still looking at all my options, and this duplex idea isn’t our one and only idea. I just saw an opportunity to have the best possible neighbor, and save on unnecessary costs without cohabitation, it seem like an idea that merited investigation.

 

[Kathryn_Ann]

Thank you for your honesty! Unfortunately as a newly engaged couple we can’t as you say “just get married”. In our diocese we at minimum have to start our preparation for marriage 6 months prior to the wedding. We’re also not looking to do minimums when it comes to our vocations. A priest does at least years of discernment and preparation for his vocation, because once it is done it cannot be undone, something like that shouldn’t be entered lightly I feel. I think that’s why people find themselves in situations that they feel they have no recourse but to divorce. I think we owe it to God and ourselves to take our time in prayer and discernment in unity for our unity. I guess I don’t understand what the rush is…

Also I agree wholeheartedly that on my own willpower I would undoubtedly fall. Satan is quite good at convincing people that they are strong enough to do it on their own strength. Luckily I’ve wised up to that folly, and brought in some ringers. The Blessed Mother and her most chaste spouse. Also being able to regularly receive Christ in the Eucharist just makes things totally unfair. My relationship is chaste and strong because at it’s center is not us, but Christ.

Thank you so much for your concern its greatly appreciated. Its a beautiful act of charity to be concerned for a total stranger

She’s leaving home regardless, she wants to live in my hometown, and she is going to have a rental here. I’ve offered to come live where she is, or even else where and her answer was no. She has little family, and they’re all back in her homestate… Her mother is supportive as a mother, but not from a faith aspect as she’s actively non-religious, her father is a Jehovah’s witness in all out boycott of me, because she came into the Church after we started dating. We do have jobs, just not jobs we will be able to be raising a family on, at least not yet… I have enough money for living on my own. As does she, in fact she’s more financially stable that I am. In this situation our leases would be independent of each other, as independent as if we were living across the city from each other. We don’t have joint checking, savings, piggy banks or anything of that sort. Buying groceries together would enable us to buy bulk which is cheaper. I agree that engagement for the mass majority of people is a helter skelter tornado of planning of what “I want” and what “she wants”, and very little of silence, stillness and listening for what exactly God wants from things. What better reason to take our time in our engagement?

The first step on our list is having a meeting with our parish priest, we just haven’t had a chance yet. When I said recently engaged, I truly meant it literally. This past week! We’re also lucky enough to have lots of supportive young married couples around us to help us both with prayer and advice.

Obviously I’m still looking at all my options, and this duplex idea isn’t our one and only idea. I just saw an opportunity to have the best possible neighbor, and save on unnecessary costs without cohabitation, it seem like an idea that merited investigation.

Bless you dear: her family situation, (the one parent non religious and the other a raging Jehovah’s witness?) speaks for itself. Gracious! After seeing your above details, I completely understand and see that you are VERY NEWLY engaged! How lovely that your fiancee’ converted to Catholicism while you were dating! Miraculous and moving.

From what you say here, that you have already offered to move, in effect to do anything for her, and seeing that her father is against the marriage (I hope this changes) as long as you talk with your priest about this, and are surrounded by stable friends in the Faith, I can only repeat that you seem to both be headed in the right direction.

I am so very sorry to learn that your fiancee’ is not being emotionally or faithfully supported by her own parents. I hope her parents have a change of heart and either accept her new Faith or the marriage plans or both…and if not, that they will not interfere with your deserved happiness.:heaven:

Now that I see these new details, which you were very kind to share, I believe I understand your situation much better. I hope you’ll keep us posted from time to time on these forums, as there are many kind people here who, for the most part, give their opinions based on Christ-centered love and concern.

I think most of us here are very happy that you plan to see your priest, to keep praying, and I am sure everyone here wishes you what I do, a joyful future with your future Bride.:angel1: From everything I’ve seen, you are quite heroic:knight1::knight2: in bringing her into the faith, standing by her, being so willing to remain in prayer, and seeking the advice of your priest as soon as you can.

Please return and let us know how everything turns out!

Love and prayers,
Kathryn Ann:heaven:

 

[twoangels]

I think a duplex situation is fine. Any situation has its temptations. Having to drive back home can be a motivation to stay over night due to bad driving conditions. I also don’t think sharing meals together is a bad idea.

That said, I don’t think of engagement as a discernment process. I rather think of it as preparing for the marriage. Part of this is preparing for the wedding and part is preparing for married life. For instance joining bank accounts, finding a home you will live in after you’re married and spiritually preparing for marriage. Certainly the stress of wedding planning can put the relationship under pressure and help you to see things you may not have seen before in that person.

The marriage prep classes are there to basically get couples to do what they should have done before they got engaged. If they were really marriage prep, you’d be taking classes in family finance rather than just getting a brosure. You’d actually work with a marriage councilor who got to know you and your relationship and could help give you insight and maybe even gave you assignments to focus on key areas your relationship may need work on. You’d be given a weekend spiritual retreat that incorporates Eucharistic adoration, meditation and periods of silence. This sort of preparation simply doesn’t exist. If anything the preparation that exists is better to be used as a discernment process for dating couples. My husband and I have a few friends who signed up for such classes to discern marriage when they were not engaged. This allowed them to critically think about their relationship.

The thing about engagement is that you’re engaged to be married. This sets in your mind that this person is the person you are going to marry. If you’re discerning marriage, you have kick that idea out of your head because once you really embrace the idea of thinking of that person as “your future spouse” it takes a lot more to motivate yourself to break up if that is the wise thing to do.

I’m not saying there are not circumstances where engagements are forced to be long. My husband and I’s engagement lasted far longer than I considered prudent for an engagement, but we were forced into that situation.

 

[tpfom]

Thank you again Kathryn, your support and especially your prayers are welcome and appreciated

Twoangels thanks for weighing in Discernment is important in all stages of life, I think. it may change in focus but in the end discernment is simply actively seeking God’s will. I feel that is an especially important aspect of preparation for the sacrament. I should be listening even harder to what God wants the closer I get to something that I want. The devil can slip into what I desire, but God’s desires I can trust. I’m not actively discerning whether marriage is right for me that was what I did for a year discerning the proposal (although if God draws away me from this engagement… with a heavy heart I will follow for his plans are greater than mine) my discernment is how can I as a man and us as a couple become more right for our marriage, more in line with what God has planned for us.

 

[runningdude]

I think its a bad idea and that over the course of the next 18-24 months you will end up living together. You want to share groceries and a pet? Ultimately you will end up spending every meal and all of your free time together. With shared groceries and a pet you will share finances. If this is how you are going to live you should probably just get married. You’ll be living like it anyway, minus the sex. (if your willpower actually holds, which I seriously doubt.)

This is ultimately the view I more support, especially in the the thought I put in bold.

With the duplex arrangement, you really kind of are living in the same household. You are simply requiring going outside to get from one bedroom to the next. If the apartments are adjoining (like in a hotel), you may even end up unlocking the doors in between. You will essentially end up living as roommates, which may trivialize the domestic relationship.

Marriage is about more than just sex: it’s about sharing a household, including the exciting business of producing children, and the mundane business of buying groceries and balancing checkbooks. Sharing a household before marriage undermines an important part of the future relationship - it turns the marriage into a purely sexual relationship overlain on the existing roommate relationship.

Spending time discerning marriage is a good thing, but it should be a time of personal growth. My parents have assured me that marriage is not that difficult, that you just need to be on the same page in life. Living apart, you will better know that you both share the same values and commitment. If you fear that you will grow apart if you are not constantly within each other’s presence, then this may be a sign that you are forcing the issue. If you’re truly committed, you’ll gain Independence and grow closer.

I’d encourage you and your fiancee to live further apart - a different neighborhood, with different friends or relatives if costs are tight, etc. Learn to manage your own domestic affairs separately. Be confident at your ability to live independently, and bring this confidence into your future marriage and shared household!

 

[PatriceA]

"…both blessed to be debt free…"

So, why wait 2 yrs? Plan for a sooner wedding!

I’m echoing this again in this thread.

I do not understand this discernment of a year or so after getting engaged, before getting married. I do understand the diocese requirement of 6 months, having been married in the Catholic Church myself. But I am having a hard time wrapping my brain around just what you think you have to discern in between the engagement and the wedding. What happens in this discernment period if you discern this marriage is not what you want? I understand the discernment of marriage as your vocation and if this girl is your future spouse, but everything you think you need to discern about in this engagement period is everything you should have thought about before you even proposed or knew marriage was your vocation.

Plan the wedding ASAP, there is nothing that is going to be revealed to you in two years that you haven’t already discerned and know. Rent one of the duplexes for 6 months if possible, or rent another place that offers a short term lease, get married, move into the other duplex.

 

[twoangels]

Thank you again Kathryn, your support and especially your prayers are welcome and appreciated

Twoangels thanks for weighing in Discernment is important in all stages of life, I think. it may change in focus but in the end discernment is simply actively seeking God’s will. I feel that is an especially important aspect of preparation for the sacrament. I should be listening even harder to what God wants the closer I get to something that I want. The devil can slip into what I desire, but God’s desires I can trust. I’m not actively discerning whether marriage is right for me that was what I did for a year discerning the proposal (although if God draws away me from this engagement… with a heavy heart I will follow for his plans are greater than mine) my discernment is how can I as a man and us as a couple become more right for our marriage, more in line with what God has planned for us.

That is true. Discerning of God’s will should continue throughout the engagement, but engagement still is primarily preparation for marriage and for the wedding. It is a different type of discernment. As far as I read, the Church invented engagement because the Church used to not keep as close tabs on people’s behavior. People who were married were known to abandon their spouses and claim they were single. Thus the Church started requiring that couples inform their parish ahead of time (the length was always different). This length of time was simply there so that the Church could issue the marriage banns. This made your intention to marry public so that if your real wife’s father-in-law could come forward and say “Wait, that’s my son in law and he’s still married to my daughter!” There Church has other methods now to determine if you are eligible to marry, but does still publish the marriage banns. They also now require marriage prep classes of some sort.

An engagement should only last as long as it takes to set all the things in order to get married. It is a stressful time and that stress does bring discernment into it. You may realize your fiance does not handle stress well enough for you to marry her. But it should not be used to increase levels of intimacy, informal commitments, nor to enable yourselves to have a fancier more expensive wedding. When you’ve made that commitment to marry (even though you can get out of it), it brings a whole new level of temptation.

I would say living in a duplex during the course of a real engagement, is fine. Wedding planning will limit your time together anyway. You will need time to spend together, so it is a balance, but you SHOULD be busy.

My husband and I had a one and a half year engagement because of complications caused by my family’s parish priest suffering a stroke and the limbo this put the parish in. My parents insisted I marry in our parish (I should have at least researched the cost of marrying in my husband’s parish). Between him finishing school, my manditory overtime, volunteering to teach Catechism and the fact that the temporarily assigned priest from India thought the diocese required us to complete all the marriage prep requirements before we’d be allowed to set a date, put our engagement on the back burner. Since my husband had already proposed, we marked the beginning of our “real” engagement by going through a solemn engagement ceremony.

We still have the certificate framed. It reads “May 10, 2009: Before Almighty God and His heavenly Court, and in the presense of the witness whose name is affixed to this document, we the undersigned promise to one another by this ecclesiastical engagement Marriage in Christ. We further promose that by the frequent, devout reception of the Holy Sacraments, by prayer and charity, by mutual respect and chastity we shall assist one another in preparing worthily for the blessed day of our marriage in Christ. We have made this promose before the altar of our most Holy Mother Mary. We humbly ask the Virgin Mother Mary to carry our promise to the throne of God and to obtain for us His grace and blessing.”

 

[thewanderer]

I know I said there is no problem with this arrangement, and technically there isn’t, if you two are good with keeping and setting up strict boundaries, I had not realized that you were planning on a two year engagement, especially when it is possible to have a much shorter one. I have to agree with most of the other posters that this is something to be avoided if possible. I realize that the intention is to help ensure that you have given the best to God before your wedding and prepared yourselves for it as best as you can… but you also don’t want to delay your marriage when it is the right thing for you to do.

As for the 2 year engagement we decided on it, because we wanted the start to be entirely focused on continual discernment, and preparation for marriage without the distraction of planning the wedding. I guess I consider the engagement as needing our full focus rather than it being just a transitory planning stage for the wedding…

I know planning a wedding can be stressful and time-consuming… but will it really fill up an entire year? Honestly, it will be only as stressful and time consuming as you make it to be. If you care about all the little details to make sure that you have a ‘perfect’ day, then yes, it will take up a lot of your time… but if you aren’t as worried about perfection, or making sure you follow all the rules that wedding websites tell you are ‘simply must-haves’ etc, I think you will find it a lot harder to fill up an entire year with planning the actual event. Would it really be too hard to continue your preperation for marriage during this time? I can understand giving yourself about a year for your engagement because of this (which will still allow you to save money on your bookings), but 2 years seems like you’re just extending it unnecesarily.

The Holy Father said “Learning to love each other as a couple is a wonderful journey, yet it requires a demanding ‘apprenticeship.’ The period of engagement, very necessary in order to form a couple, is a time of expectation and preparation that needs to be lived in purity of gesture and words. It allows you to mature in love, in concern and in attention for each other; it helps you to practice self-control and to develop your respect for each other. These are the characteristics of true love that does not place emphasis on seeking its own satisfaction or its own welfare. In your prayer together, ask the Lord to watch over and increase your love and to purify it of all selfishness.”

I think this is excellent advice from the Holy Father, but again, I don’t see the necessity for a two year wait in order to accomplish this.

(Anyway, there might just be a tinge of jealousy in my response, I would love to be financially capable of planning a wedding right now but am stuck indefinately waiting for finances to improve, apparantly you and your fiancee, on top of being debt free and both having jobs would be able to buy a house after saving for two years!!! Trust me, many many other young people would give just about anything to be in your situation and would not start adding unnecessary lengths to their engagement. )

Again, congratulations!! I’m sure you everything will work out wonderfully however you decide to arrange it.

 

[underacloud]

I know planning a wedding can be stressful and time-consuming… but will it really fill up an entire year? Honestly, it will be only as stressful and time consuming as you make it to be. If you care about all the little details to make sure that you have a ‘perfect’ day, then yes, it will take up a lot of your time… but if you aren’t as worried about perfection, or making sure you follow all the rules that wedding websites tell you are ‘simply must-haves’ etc, I think you will find it a lot harder to fill up an entire year with planning the actual event. Would it really be too hard to continue your preperation for marriage during this time? I can understand giving yourself about a year for your engagement because of this (which will still allow you to save money on your bookings), but 2 years seems like you’re just extending it unnecesarily.

I completely agree!

My engagement was a little over six months. No need at all for it to be longer.

People worry about it being the perfect day. As a husband or wife, if you’re worried for example about how the flowers look (or any other trivial matter) on your wedding day, then you’re not focussed on what you should be! My wedding day was perfect because I married my wonderful wife, did so in the Catholic Church before God, and shared the day with family and friends. You don’t need 2 years to plan that.

As others have questioned, I don’t really understand being engaged to someone yet still wanting to discern marriage with them. You discern marriage…if the answer is yes you get engaged…you are now in the planning phase, not the discernment phase…the discernment only kicks back in if something comes up that changes your/her outlook (eg you didn’t discuss something and find out you have very different views - but this should have been done before an engagement). Anyway, that’s just the way I see it.