Engaged sex - Questions about becoming chaste again

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If you want to scold me for considering moving forward in sin when I know it’s wrong, fine. But he’s not the one asking me to do it. If you want to tell me horrible I am for being a lapsed Catholic, fine. But don’t preach about how horrible and lacking non-Catholics are.
JP2 says it best in his book, Crossing the Threshold of Hope. Basically, even though your FH is not Catholic technically, he may in fact be far more Catholic than many of those who would presume to be Catholic. In the churches teachings on ecumenism, if someone–a non-Catholic, perhaps–is more aligned with the churches teachings than someone who is professing Catholicism ----- then the non-Catholic is far more “Catholic” and closer to God than a person who claims to be “Catholic.” Say for example, your FH, is humble, charitable, honorable, honest, etc. vs. a “Catholic” who goes to church every week but lacks the above qualities — who do you think is more “Catholic” in God’s and the Church’s eyes? Truly it is the virtuous non-Catholic. This leads directly back to the story of the Good Samaritan, and I think the detail is rather glossed over when it comes to discussing the Faith with others.

I, too, am engaged and have many struggles I am working through in the sexual nature with regard to my future marriage. I also commend you on your posts and the heart you have shown here in the progression from start until now. Princess, I do with the best for you — if you every get to this post.

If there are still hostilities about this issue in the Faith, or for a great insight from JP2 on a normal-intelligence level about many issues within the Church, I definitely recommend you or anyone reading this read Crossing the Threshold of Hope if you have not yet gotten the chance.
 
If there are still hostilities about this issue in the Faith, or for a great insight from JP2 on a normal-intelligence level about many issues within the Church, I definitely recommend you or anyone reading this read Crossing the Threshold of Hope if you have not yet gotten the chance.
Thank you! I will add that to my reading list.

I agree with your assessment of the potential Catholic-ness of some non-Catholics. Although he and his family do not understand my faith, nobody around them is saying that I may cheat, lie, or basically turn out to be a rat because I do not practice the same religion. We’re going to his parents’ this weekend and they are going out of their way to accommodate my need to avoid meat and make it to mass all weekend (with the church quite a distance away). I doubt many on this board would do the same for a non-Catholic if the situation was reversed.
 
Thank you! I will add that to my reading list.

I agree with your assessment of the potential Catholic-ness of some non-Catholics. Although he and his family do not understand my faith, nobody around them is saying that I may cheat, lie, or basically turn out to be a rat because I do not practice the same religion. We’re going to his parents’ this weekend and they are going out of their way to accommodate my need to avoid meat and make it to mass all weekend (with the church quite a distance away). I doubt many on this board would do the same for a non-Catholic if the situation was reversed.
Hope all is well with you Princess18- glad to see you follow up in this thread. I was pleased to see that you picked up Christopher West’s TOTB book- an excellent work.

Peace to you and yours.
 
We’re going to his parents’ this weekend and they are going out of their way to accommodate my need to avoid meat and make it to mass all weekend (with the church quite a distance away). I doubt many on this board would do the same for a non-Catholic if the situation was reversed.
Wow, how sad that your experience has given you such a low opinon of Catholics and the hospitality with which they treat others. Many prayers that you will find Catholics who demonstrate Christ’s love.
 
Thank you! I will add that to my reading list.

I agree with your assessment of the potential Catholic-ness of some non-Catholics. Although he and his family do not understand my faith, nobody around them is saying that I may cheat, lie, or basically turn out to be a rat because I do not practice the same religion. We’re going to his parents’ this weekend and they are going out of their way to accommodate my need to avoid meat and make it to mass all weekend (with the church quite a distance away). I doubt many on this board would do the same for a non-Catholic if the situation was reversed.
Excellent! Wow, sounds like a great family! Sounds like things are going well, then? How are you?

Well, most faiths don’t consider it a sin to miss a Sunday or two, do they? Yes, it is “harder” to be Catholic and I’m glad your fiance’s family is doing what they can to help you. Sounds like a great set of In-laws, to me!

So tell us how the wedding plans are comming!
 
Wow, how sad that your experience has given you such a low opinon of Catholics and the hospitality with which they treat others. Many prayers that you will find Catholics who demonstrate Christ’s love.
Kage, I agree. And in defence of Princess, many on this board jumped all over her and her fiance earlier and on other posts. IMO, it was a poor example of what we are expected to do here on CAF and in life. And it’s our challenge to make the effort to rid CAF of such poor behavior. I find it commendable that she’s still here. Others just left. Or others may not ever come here. And that is truely sad.
 
Kage, I agree. And in defence of Princess, many on this board jumped all over her and her fiance earlier and on other posts. IMO, it was a poor example of what we are expected to do here on CAF and in life. And it’s our challenge to make the effort to rid CAF of such poor behavior. I find it commendable that she’s still here. Others just left. Or others may not ever come here. And that is truely sad.
While the tactlessness of some of the early posters may have been evident (after reading all of this thread — pages 4-7 mostly), I think that those “harsher” posters definitely served a purpose for Princess. While their direction and fact-stating may have been harsh for her to hear, sometimes the truth is just simply not pleasant, and while there is a certain “bedside manner” necessary from some in supportive role, the truth is still the truth, and must be delivered. I waivered on this a good bit as I originally reacted to the harsh tone as many posters did. But I find myself thinking in the end that the complement of the sugar-coated and non-sugar-coated versions turn out to be a good vessel for the truth to come out.
 
While the tactlessness of some of the early posters may have been evident (after reading all of this thread — pages 4-7 mostly), I think that those “harsher” posters definitely served a purpose for Princess. While their direction and fact-stating may have been harsh for her to hear, sometimes the truth is just simply not pleasant, and while there is a certain “bedside manner” necessary from some in supportive role, the truth is still the truth, and must be delivered. I waivered on this a good bit as I originally reacted to the harsh tone as many posters did. But I find myself thinking in the end that the complement of the sugar-coated and non-sugar-coated versions turn out to be a good vessel for the truth to come out.
I agree greatly with your assessment about them providing a certain amount of the truth. But the forums are not a good means to deliver the truth with a baseball bat. We have no “captive audienence” here. While I do not mean to imply we need to “tip toe” through things, we must avoid what can be considered personal attacks and generous helpings of guilt. Certainly, harshly judging someone for their past, while they are in the process of conversion is not helpful. Some posters did just that by making implications about their future relationship as an absolute. If, indeed, a conversion of heart was taking place (read first post) then slamming these posters with a bat just as they open their eyes is inappropriate and does little to further our cause. We are called to educate, not condem. Called to persuade, not hold a gun to peoples heads. Posters here have free choices, too. Our task is to inform them, convince them through prayer, posts or outside sources and to bring them, with the proper education, tools and support, to the community.

My appologies, Princess, if I’m hijacking your thread.
 
If there is a thread somewhere that discusses this same issue, I have not found it - I apologize if this is a duplication of any sort.

I was raised in the church but never really embraced it. I have always identified myself as still a Catholic, because although I had issues with many of the rules, I always agreed with the bigger picture. I felt it was important to be married by a priest and raise my children Catholic … just because I didn’t “take to it” was not reason enough to stay away completely. My fiance’ and I began our Pre Cana counseling with the priest and attended Engaged Encounter this past weekend. He is not Catholic; he was raised Southern Baptist but he didnt’ “take to it” either. He is very open to learning about the church and he’s not opposed to conversion if he decides later it’s right for him.

The EE weekend moved us in a way that neither of us expected. After this weekend I began to feel very strongly about us discontinuing our sexual relationship until after the wedding (nine and a half months from now). My reasoning is odd - I am not upset that we have had sex to this point but that to do so now that our “eyes are starting to open” would be wrong. Future Husband and I had a very long conversation about this … he understands it is important to me but really feels that cutting off our intimacy at this point would be damaging instead of beneficial. It is not the physical gratification he is worried about missing, it is the deep emotional connection involved in being completely open and vulnerable to another person, the life-giving selflessness of one partner sharing themself with the other … the connection of married intimacy. He maintains that the only reason we are not married in the church tomorrow is because we need time to plan and execute the big production surrounding the ceremony for our families, so why should our connection be punished in the meantime? I see his point.

We came to somewhat of a compromise; we agreed that six months prior to the wedding we would stop all sexual contact beyond kissing and snuggling. Since we live together, we would commit to ensuring we are modestly clothed in front of each other, and to avoid displaying any other behaviors the other would find arousing. We also agreed to learn more about NFP and stop using condoms after the wedding. I was satisfied with this, until last night when he asked me for sexual contact and I realized that I am still not comfortable with what is essentially three and a half months of sin. I turned him away and felt horrible, more horrible than I have ever felt in any sin I have ever committed. I was going back on my promise, when he, the non-Catholic, had agreed to something he was unsure and scared of, putting his trust me and a religion he does not yet know or understand. He was very hurt and confused … I have not ever hurt him like this before and I cannot stand the thought of doing so again.

My brain tells me that to have sex with him again before our vows is a sin, period. My heart tells me that I cannot withhold this from him over the next few months and go against my promise to him and the agreement we made. We have always made decisions together, and my gut tells me that to just overrule him and his feelings in favor of my fear is horribly horribly wrong.

Please, when you answer, keep in mind I know the rule. Simply retyping it for me does not help. An answer from a member of the clergy would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
I’m jumping in here, and I haven’t read carefully through all 9 pages of this thread, so I apologize if this point has been made by someone else already…

Princess 18, you sound like you are very much torn between doing what you know is right, and hurting your fiance who has not arrived at the same place you have at the same time. It’s a tough situation, and I can hear your struggle in your post.

I have to believe that God will bless you for your obedience to Him, even if it seems hard right now. He doesn’t ask us to do anything that He will not give us the strength to see through. You have no way of knowing what God’s plans are for your fiance – maybe your faithfulness to God and His Church are just what he needs to see right now.

I’ll be praying for you.
 
I agree greatly with your assessment about them providing a certain amount of the truth. But the forums are not a good means to deliver the truth with a baseball bat. We have no “captive audienence” here. While I do not mean to imply we need to “tip toe” through things, we must avoid what can be considered personal attacks and generous helpings of guilt. Certainly, harshly judging someone for their past, while they are in the process of conversion is not helpful. Some posters did just that by making implications about their future relationship as an absolute. If, indeed, a conversion of heart was taking place (read first post) then slamming these posters with a bat just as they open their eyes is inappropriate and does little to further our cause. We are called to educate, not condem. Called to persuade, not hold a gun to peoples heads. Posters here have free choices, too. Our task is to inform them, convince them through prayer, posts or outside sources and to bring them, with the proper education, tools and support, to the community.

My appologies, Princess, if I’m hijacking your thread.
I agree with you Newbetx (and no, you didn’t hijack the thread. It’s old anyway.) The insults and predictions of gloom and doom were more than I could handle and I blew a gasket earlier in the thread (two months ago). Those who spoke to me with compassion and empathy made a far greater impact on me. Those who spoke “the truth” harshly and judgementally continually do so in other threads. My priest never talks to me that way, and yet he speaks the truth as well.
 
True. I imagine the hard-hitters are the easiest to come by. First to cast the stone, right? Wait… no…

Anyway, not trying to condone bashing and unrestrained judgment. I only remember some of the times I received the harshest correction from older role models. A lot of times it hurt and stung, but I wouldn’t be who I am today without it.

This is clearly not the same situation, and requires different tact due to the written format, and also since you don’t really know any of the people it’s coming from. I’m sure it can seem like people are just condemning left and right, even though most of the time I imagine they’ve got your best interests at heart.

Still a noob at this forum stuff, but trying not to step on people’s toes.
 
Please try to read through Chris West’s book and also get his CDs on Theology of the Body or the DVDs. Your parish may have them to loan out or ask the religious adult coordinator. I am listening and watching them right now and you will learn so much. I wish I had had these available prior to my marriage!

TRUE LOVE WAITS! Google that with the word Catholic.
There is so much out there.

catholic.com/chastity/chastity_questions.asp

Also try the above for more insight.

I will pray for you!
God bless!
SingtotheLord
with praise and thanksgiving for HE IS RISEN! Alleluia!!!
 
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