Engaged sex - Questions about becoming chaste again

[Slick_Shoes]

Princess,

After reading this thread it is amazing to see what you have come through and it sounds like you and your future husband will be blessed by God in your marriage.

I had the same feelings as you about the book by Christopher West. When I read that I too thought to myself, why has no one ever told me this? Then I thought that this book should be required reading for engaged couples. That would truly be a blessing.

How awesome it must have been for you to go to confession and receive communion again. Welcome back. I am sure that the heavens are rejoicing as we speak.

God bless you and your future husband.

 

[stadre]

Princess,

I am so happy you made this decision. I am not surprised that your FH agreed. He sounds like a great guy and I suspect you two will have a very successful marriage. God bless you both!

 

[newbetx]

I bought the Christopher West books Theology of the Body (which I have not yet started) and Good News about Sex & Marriage (which I am almost finished with). I’ll be honest. My initial reaction is ABSOLUTE ANGER, WITH STEAM COMING OUT OF MY EARS. Why, oh why, did no one ever teach this before? This is COMPLETELY different than anything I was force-fed as a child and young adult. Had I know that the Church did not expect me to be a non-sexual breeding machine I may not have fought so hard (broad generalization there, sorry). Had anyone explained to me, in a way that makes sense, the true teachings of the Church, I might have been a great Catholic all this time and not done all the stupid things I did. After the anger subsides, I feel an unbelievable sense of calm and clarity.

My nieces are 13 and 15, have finished CCD and are now moving on to the middle and high school youth group format. I asked them if they had ever heard of Theology of the Body. Nope. I asked them what the Church taught about marriage and sex. The older one, rolling her eyes, said “God gave us sex and then told us not to do it or enjoy it.” The younger one said “I’m supposed to have as many kids as my body can make. If I happen to enjoy the sex that makes the babies, lucky me. I don’t want 15 babies, but if I don’t, I’m a bad Catholic”. This is not any different than what I learned and now I am not shocked that they are on the road to becoming similarly poor Catholics as I was. Why isn’t teaching Theology of the Body mandatory to these kids? Who’s going to have the bright idea of replacing the incorrect info they are obviously learning? I even asked my Mom (who converted circa 1961) if I had an option about when was the right time for us to have babies once we were married and she said, annoyed, “God doesn’t DO options”. I asked her about NFP and she said “I don’t know what that is, and I’m not sure why you’re bringing this up. Why can’t you accept that God knows better than you how many kids you should have and when?” (sigh)

I am so happy you found CW’s book useful… After I read it, I knew I had to teach this to my kids… My assumption is that they aren’t getting it at church and we all know darned well they won’t get that kind of education at school. So I dug around, made some posts and came up with two sources for teaching my boys (13 and 16) TOB… one is TOB for Teans by the Everts… I found I did not like that one and it’s not interesting for the boys. So I started over with a recomendation for God’s Plan For You by david Hajduk… It’s far better. More like CW’s approach… I’m about to call them back into weekly sessions.

I hope you can influence your neices. This really is a Truth they need to hear. It’s exceedingly long, but Real Love: Answers to Your Questions on Dating, Marriage and the Real Meaning of Sex (Paperback)
by Mary Beth Bonacci
looks like a good read for them, too.

I, like you, decided to read “everything” I could on TOB… I read 4 books related to it. But actually, I stopped and started reading about Mary, Revalations, Apologetics, and other aspects of the faith. We need to be well rounded, too!

Good luck on the next few months. Planning a wedding is not my idea of a good time. Glad we only have to do that once! Keep us posted!

 

[boppaid]

This level of intimacy is not open to unmarried people as an option. Period. You are enjoying the benefits of marriage without the grace of the sacrament. This can be extremely damaging to your future marriage.

I’m honestly not trying to play devil’s advocate here, but bear with. How can premarital sex between an engaged couple be damaging to their marriage. I understand the reasoning that it can be damaging to their spirituality, but to their upcoming marriage? That doesn’t make sense to me. Dh and I married long ago, and we had much premarital sex. Not advocating or saying it’s right or wrong, but it certainly did not hurt our marriage. In many ways, I think it improved it.

 

[boppaid]

Originally Posted by agapewolf
*Do you really want to marry someone that will sleep with someone he’s not married to? *

Princess:
*Yes, I really do… *

Forgive the bluntness here, but it doesn’t seem that you are trully understanding the situation.

Don’t ever be surprised then if he sleeps with someone he is NOT married to (even though you two may be married).

Being sexually active prior to marriage is in NO way an indicator of being unfaithful to your spouse. I’ve never heard of such a thing! As I said, many moons ago I had premarital sex and I have never considered an affair. In fact, I know of only 2 married people who were virgins prior to their wedding. One was unfaithful. All of my other friends have been faithful to their spouses. Past sexual relationships are no indicator.

 

[newbetx]

Being sexually active prior to marriage is in NO way an indicator of being unfaithful to your spouse. I’ve never heard of such a thing! As I said, many moons ago I had premarital sex and I have never considered an affair. In fact, I know of only 2 married people who were virgins prior to their wedding. One was unfaithful. All of my other friends have been faithful to their spouses. Past sexual relationships are no indicator.

Well, It’s not true for everyone, or I wouldn’t be the faithful husband I am, either.

Glad to hear everything has worked out for you and all of your friends. It does for many, but sadly, divorce, infidelity and “trophy brides” are on the rise. I see so many kids affected by divorce. I suppose one can think it has nothing to do with the ease of available contraception, the prevailing “sexual liberation”, and availability of porn if they choose.

As to “damage” to the marriage… depends on how you look at marriage. In fact this all has to do with how one looks at sex and love and the sacrament of marriage. I won’t pretend to try to condense the TOB to a post. So if you care, read about it. If you and your spouse are happy and still in love as when you married… don’t bother. If you sexual relationship is “none of God’s business”, who are we to tell you it is? Right?

 

[jmcrae]

I’m honestly not trying to play devil’s advocate here, but bear with. How can premarital sex between an engaged couple be damaging to their marriage. I understand the reasoning that it can be damaging to their spirituality, but to their upcoming marriage?

Because these couples are not laying the groundwork that comes before sex - you know - those things you do to occupy time because you can’t have sex yet? Those activities, though they seem like “time fillers” at the time, are actually crucial to the foundations of your marriage - they’re where you learn the real communication skills that you’re going to need as a married couple, when things start to go south for whatever reason. (I don’t know if you’ve ever had a police officer show up at your door, but yeah - the skills we learned before we got married and started to have sex were what got us through that one with our marriage intact.)

Also, with sex before marriage, wouldn’t they be using some form of birth control? Birth control is deadly to so many marriages.

 

[graceandglory]

Being sexually active prior to marriage is in NO way an indicator of being unfaithful to your spouse.

Being sexually active before marriage DOES indicate an inability to say “No.” It does indicate that feelings are more important than commitments. It does indicate that someone doesn’t think playing by the rules is necessary. It does indicate that the person has difficulty with waiting and patience and continence.

Christians who are sexually active prior to marriage are living a life of compromise. It indicates that they are willing to commit mortal sin whenever it feels good, or when they feel like it.

It indicates that they will likely pick and choose the parts of the faith they will practice based on their feelings.

The statistics are public that couples who cohabitate and are sexually active before marriage have a much higher divorce rate than those who don’t.

 

[whatevergirl]

Being sexually active before marriage DOES indicate an inability to say “No.” It does indicate that feelings are more important than commitments. It does indicate that someone doesn’t think playing by the rules is necessary. It does indicate that the person has difficulty with waiting and patience and continence.

Christians who are sexually active prior to marriage are living a life of compromise. It indicates that they are willing to commit mortal sin whenever it feels good, or when they feel like it.

It indicates that they will likely pick and choose the parts of the faith they will practice based on their feelings.

The statistics are public that couples who cohabitate and are sexually active before marriage have a much higher divorce rate than those who don’t.

That could be true, but people can also change. My husband had a sexual history before meeting me, and has been faithful during our 16 year marriage…so, people can change. Not everyone is at the same place in their faith walk, either. Someone prior to marriage may be quite immature in their faith walk, and after marrying–he/she really grows up, and figures out that God’s laws matter, and are most important. So–people can change. Look at St Paul…look at Peter…look at David …people can change, when they turn their sights on God, and make Him first. Just my two cents.

 

[graceandglory]

That could be true, but people can also change. My husband had a sexual history before meeting me, and has been faithful during our 16 year marriage…so, people can change. Not everyone is at the same place in their faith walk, either. Someone prior to marriage may be quite immature in their faith walk, and after marrying–he/she really grows up, and figures out that God’s laws matter, and are most important. So–people can change. Look at St Paul…look at Peter…look at David …people can change, when they turn their sights on God, and make Him first. Just my two cents.

Praise God! I totally agree!
I wouldn’t suggest or confirm others in their sin however, just because you guys beat the odds.

The OP has a desire to remain chaste and is looking for reasons to convince her fiance to be chaste with her as well. Let’s hope and pray that they will be a couple that beats the odds too.

 

[whatevergirl]

Praise God! I totally agree!
I wouldn’t suggest or confirm others in their sin however, just because you guys beat the odds.

The OP has a desire to remain chaste and is looking for reasons to convince her fiance to be chaste with her as well. Let’s hope and pray that they will be a couple that beats the odds too.

Agreed.

 

[boppaid]

As to “damage” to the marriage… depends on how you look at marriage. In fact this all has to do with how one looks at sex and love and the sacrament of marriage. I won’t pretend to try to condense the TOB to a post. So if you care, read about it. If you and your spouse are happy and still in love as when you married… don’t bother. If you sexual relationship is “none of God’s business”, who are we to tell you it is? Right?

Thanks for your thoughtful response. I do need to clarify something for you, though. You said “If your sexual relationship is ‘none of God’s business’” and even quoted that to make it look like I said it. I’m not sure if you confused me with someone else, but I assure you…I do NOT believe that my sexual relationship with my husband is none of God’s business. I just don’t believe our marriage has been damaged by our premarital sexual relationship so many years ago.

 

[boppaid]

Being sexually active before marriage DOES indicate an inability to say “No.” It does indicate that feelings are more important than commitments.

Well, in that case, the same can be said for saying “no” to anything…from premarital sex, to a cigarette, to a piece of chocolate cake in the middle of a diet! We just put priorities on things in life. One can have partaken in premarital sex and still value commitment. I guess I don’t see the connection.

 

[newbetx]

Because these couples are not laying the groundwork that comes before sex - you know - those things you do to occupy time because you can’t have sex yet? Those activities, though they seem like “time fillers” at the time, are actually crucial to the foundations of your marriage - they’re where you learn the real communication skills that you’re going to need as a married couple, when things start to go south for whatever reason. …

Well, I was young and foolish, too. This is good advice, though.

Also, with sex before marriage, wouldn’t they be using some form of birth control?

Some are not always that smart, I am afraid.

Birth control is deadly to so many marriages.

AMEN to that. This isn’t preaching. Unfortunately I know this from personal experience.

 

[newbetx]

Well, in that case, the same can be said for saying “no” to anything…from premarital sex, to a cigarette, to a piece of chocolate cake in the middle of a diet! We just put priorities on things in life. One can have partaken in premarital sex and still value commitment. I guess I don’t see the connection.

Peace, you two!
Actually, boppaid, you DO see things correctly… YOU chose to value commitment… so many, unfortunately do not. I agree with you that it does not have to be that way. I was a party guy and it was no problem for me to become a faithful husband. This has to do with the person’s ability to love and commit. But the converse appears to be true, too.

Statistically (and I hate saying things like this without a handy specific reference) it follows that those that did not have faithful relationships prior to marriage MAY not have them afterward, either. Now, if your premarrital relationship was faithful, then it could be assumed you (and your husband) have the value of commitment.

This isn’t promoted because, similar to drug abuse, if you bring in a recovered addict to talk to kids, they’ll say to themselves… well if he can break the cycle, I can too. So now I can start and quit anytime I like. Maybe you can, maybe you can’t. MOST can’t.

But by the grace of God, I’ve been able to walk away from every opportunity to fall victim to these addictions. Many can not.

Let’s face it. Predicting the future is difficult enough. Absolutely predicting particularly anyone’s future behavior is folly. We can see trends. We may even be able to point to studies… but there are no absolutes when it comes to human behavior.

 

[newbetx]

Thanks for your thoughtful response. I do need to clarify something for you, though. You said “If your sexual relationship is ‘none of God’s business’” and even quoted that to make it look like I said it. I’m not sure if you confused me with someone else, but I assure you…I do NOT believe that my sexual relationship with my husband is none of God’s business. I just don’t believe our marriage has been damaged by our premarital sexual relationship so many years ago.

My appologies… I wasn’t sure where you were coming from. I have heard that sentiment much in my life and seen posted here… not sure that I didn’t say it once upon a time. I did not mean to put words in your mouth per se… just feeling out where you might be. Hope I didn’t make this clear as mud or offend you.

 

[Joya]

The one thing I’ll say though, Princess…not sure if you’ll read this…is your bf’s reaction to you wanting to halt having sex until marriage. He may be ‘hurt,’ but be very careful to not put your bf’s feelings above doing what is right…in YOUR eyes, and most importantly in God’s eyes. If you did not want advice…if you are not seeking change…you would not have posted your situation here. I’m sorry if you have been offended…I hope I didn’t, but I want you to know that we cannot put our spouses’ or future spouses’ feelings over what is holy in God’s eyes. You will spend a lifetime compromising on your values, if you start now…so, just be careful. There’s no need to start arguments with him, but if you bf truly loves you–he won’t ask you to compromise your values…for him.: And that’s a universal non religious truth.

I hope you choose to stay. Sometimes things get heated on these forums…but, it’s a great place to learn, and grow in your faith walk. God bless you.

Another great post from my CAF pal, whatevergirl!

Hello, princess! I wish I could meet you in person! You seem like a great person. I read your post last night and was struck by your sincerity. I do understand the frustration you feel regarding some of the posters here. Do not let them get to you; if you want to take some with a grain of salt, go ahead and do so. I have always advocated for the responsibility and importance of thinking for yourself regarding these matters.

Having said that, I don’t believe we should just be allowed to take the easier path, either. God is obviously speaking to you. Your desire to postpone relations until marriage is a beautiful and holy one. I pray that your finance (and I believe all the good things you say about him; great people are not just found in the Catholic Church) will accept this decision and that it will bear much fruit for your marriage.

I hope this doesn’t sound silly, but I always thought that sex before marriage was like opening all of your Christmas gifts before Christmas arrived. When that glorious day arrives, that only comes once a year, we have nothing to look forward to and much of the excitement of the occasion is gone.

Sex is that gift a husband and a wife give to each other after they have commited themselves before God and their community of family and friends to lifelong fidelity. But unlike X-mas, the giving of this gift can only take place once, not once a year. You haven’t waited, but it’s not too late to start over again. God is truly merciful. If your finance see it in this light and realizes how important this is to you, do think he will change his mind? I don’t think the two of you will regret waiting again. You will have a much more beautiful and special wedding night to cherish for the rest of your married life.

God bless you and good luck.

 

[whatevergirl]

Another great post from my CAF pal, whatevergirl!

Hello, princess! I wish I could meet you in person! You seem like a great person. I read your post last night and was struck by your sincerity. I do understand the frustration you feel regarding some of the posters here. Do not let them get to you; if you want to take some with a grain of salt, go ahead and do so. I have always advocated for the responsibility and importance of thinking for yourself regarding these matters.

Having said that, I don’t believe we should just be allowed to take the easier path, either. God is obviously speaking to you. Your desire to postpone relations until marriage is a beautiful and holy one. I pray that your finance (and I believe all the good things you say about him; great people are not just found in the Catholic Church) will accept this decision and that it will bear much fruit for your marriage.

I hope this doesn’t sound silly, but I always thought that sex before marriage was like opening all of your Christmas gifts before Christmas arrived. When that glorious day arrives, that only comes once a year, we have nothing to look forward to and much of the excitement of the occasion is gone.

Sex is that gift a husband and a wife give to each other after they have commited themselves before God and their community of family and friends to lifelong fidelity. But unlike X-mas, the giving of this gift can only take place once, not once a year. You haven’t waited, but it’s not too late to start over again. God is truly merciful. If your finance see it in this light and realizes how important this is to you, do think he will change his mind? I don’t think the two of you will regret waiting again. You will have a much more beautiful and special wedding night to cherish for the rest of your married life.

God bless you and good luck.

Joooyaaaa! Hi! I haven’t seen you much on here…hope you are doing well, my friend. ((hugs))
:hug1:

 

[boppaid]

Peace, you two!
Actually, boppaid, you DO see things correctly… YOU chose to value commitment… so many, unfortunately do not. I agree with you that it does not have to be that way. I was a party guy and it was no problem for me to become a faithful husband. This has to do with the person’s ability to love and commit. But the converse appears to be true, too.

Statistically (and I hate saying things like this without a handy specific reference) it follows that those that did not have faithful relationships prior to marriage MAY not have them afterward, either. Now, if your premarrital relationship was faithful, then it could be assumed you (and your husband) have the value of commitment.

This isn’t promoted because, similar to drug abuse, if you bring in a recovered addict to talk to kids, they’ll say to themselves… well if he can break the cycle, I can too. So now I can start and quit anytime I like. Maybe you can, maybe you can’t. MOST can’t.

But by the grace of God, I’ve been able to walk away from every opportunity to fall victim to these addictions. Many can not.

Let’s face it. Predicting the future is difficult enough. Absolutely predicting particularly anyone’s future behavior is folly. We can see trends. We may even be able to point to studies… but there are no absolutes when it comes to human behavior.

Very true sentiments.

 

[boppaid]

My appologies… I wasn’t sure where you were coming from. I have heard that sentiment much in my life and seen posted here… not sure that I didn’t say it once upon a time. I did not mean to put words in your mouth per se… just feeling out where you might be. Hope I didn’t make this clear as mud or offend you.

Oh, don’t worry. I figured it was a misunderstanding. I just wanted to clarify. I believe that everything I do and feel is God’s business. God is very much a part of my marriage.