Engaged sex - Questions about becoming chaste again

[Princess18]

Do you really want to marry someone that will sleep with someone he’s not married to?

Yes, I really do. Likewise, he really wants to marry someone that sins… Me. We are far from perfect; the point is that we are trying to get our lives back on track … together.

What will he do then, whether he considers your reasons sound or not? Go elsewhere for sex? Indulge himself?

Please do not equate past transgressions with an automatic guarantee of committing future ones. My complete faith in his fidelity has never, ever been an issue. Nor do I question his devotion to me if I insist on waiting until marriage, or even if I said he’d have to still wait a year after marriage. He wouldn’t like it, but he’d do it. I am not questioning his possible actions in response to my decision, I am questioning the pain I am causing him since he does not understand.

Several of you are vilifying him when he does not deserve that. This is MY guilt, MY issue with my own actions, MY decision. Today at work he’s probably only felt concerned at about what he did wrong (nothing) and how much he loves his future wife. He has never been anything but supportive and wonderful. He’s probably the biggest mushy sap I ever met.

 

[lizaanne]

I appreciate your concern on that point. However, he is not sitting there thinking “That’s it. It’s me or her religion”. This is very new to him. …To say that “I’m springing this on him” is pretty close to accurate.

This is what engagement is all about - discernment, and learning. This is an excellent learning experience for both of you. This may not be the last time either of you springs something on the other with regard to personal growth, or any other issue. How you handle the situation will speak volumes about the success and health of your marriage.

You also said something about “welcoming God into your marriage”. What he needs to understand is that it’s not a party and you welcome God to it - it is a marriage, and it must have God as the foundation. Not just an added guest. Guests can be told to leave - a foundation is what you build a life on.

He sounds as if he loves you very much. But I think you both need to do some very serious consideration regarding Faith and God in your marriage, and what marriage truly is. I’m so glad you did the EE weekend - that’s a great start.

~Liza

 

[lizaanne]

This is MY guilt, MY issue with my own actions, MY decision.

Just wait - soon two will become one. And you will not only have your own soul to consider, but that of your husband as well. You will not have YOUR issues, YOUR decisions - every single thing you do will have another person attached to it.

~Liza

 

[kage_ar]

The pain and confusion you are feeling is EXACTLY the reason that God designed sex for inside marriage only. Sex does bond tow people together, and once you have that bond you desire sex with bonds you and you desire sex - - kinda neat the way God made us to work.

Now, you are trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube. No one said it will be easy. Know it WILL be worth it.

 

[whatevergirl]

Hi Princess–thank you for posting this, and hopefully, our replies will benefit you in some way.

If you both live chastely from here on out…what do you both fear losing? Fear of losing ‘something’ is what motivates you both to have sex…actually. That’s not what sex is about. Sex between a married couple is about gaining, not losing. If you both fear losing something (you mentioned that he is afraid of losing the close connection, etc…that sex provides) …what might that something be if you could label it?

Remember…and this is a light hearted joke I tell my friends who struggle to remain chaste before marriage…‘you are vertical a lot more than you are horizontal in marriage.’ If you find your main connection through sex, something is wrong, in other words. Taking away sex, should not lessen your bond–if it does…then something is askew. I don’t say this is true for you, just saying it in general.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Please do not equate past transgressions with an automatic guarantee of committing future ones.

I haven’t. You are reading way too much into what I’ve written. Nothing is guaranteed, not fidelity nor infidelity between spouses. I’m speaking of forming virtuous habits right now, so they can benefit you now and later. Why would abstaining be a good thing? If it is “understanding” that you want to share with your spouse, then simply share your reasons with him. You don’t need us to tell you your reasons.

Those trying to help you here are only trying to help you formulate those reasons, as we don’t know why else you would have asked for help.

For instance, a very good reason to think about: couples who cohabit before marriage have a 50 percent higher divorce rate than those who don’t.

Again, not predicting your fiance’s behavior, not “villifying” anybody, just trying to help you explain why chastity prior to marriage is not a bad thing, not a hurtful thing, but is in reality a good thing. Practicing chastity prior to marriage helps married couples remain chaste during marriage.

 

[agapewolf]

Originally Posted by agapewolf
*Do you really want to marry someone that will sleep with someone he’s not married to? *

Princess:
*Yes, I really do… *

Forgive the bluntness here, but it doesn’t seem that you are trully understanding the situation.

Don’t ever be surprised then if he sleeps with someone he is NOT married to (even though you two may be married).

Princess, honestly, I am so glad that you are seeing God’s prompting in your life, and that you are listening to it. There is so much in this situation that is screaming for you guys to take a deep breath, step back, and study what you are about to do here. Read theology of the body. (the Christopher West book suggested already). Read about what sex really is.

Look, marriage is about helping the spouse and children get to heaven. You will be held accountable for his soul, and his yours. The Husband is the spiritual head of the household…yet since he is not Catholic, you will have to fill that role. God did not design women that way. Although some wives might be successful at it, its a hard hard road. …kids “take” to their faith when their faithers teach them.

What if something happens to you, will he raise the children Catholic? You will be held accountable for that. You are choosing a non-practicing protestant that doesn’t seem to have much of a basis of faith for his morality as your future husband and father of your children.

You don’t have to answer these questions to me, but somehow you’ve got to undertake how absolutely serious this is.

 

[Princess18]

You also said something about “welcoming God into your marriage”. What he needs to understand is that it’s not a party and you welcome God to it - it is a marriage, and it must have God as the foundation. Not just an added guest. Guests can be told to leave - a foundation is what you build a life on.

You’re very right, our marriage must be built on His foundation. However, God has not been part of our equation before. This is not just “what your fiance’ needs to understand” situation - this is my transition as well.

I understand that as Catholics, we tend to jump quickly to protect other Catholics from potentially ill-meaning Protestants. Had I realized how much the respondents would focus on the possibility of my non-Catholic future husband cheating on me, how his non-belief may lure me away from the teachings of the church, or that many would pose questions of our suitability for each other then I would have left out that detail altogether. I had really hoped that responses would focus on my question, how I, the Catholic, feel more sinful in changing our relationship without his understanding than I would committing the sin itself, but it appears that his non-Catholicness tends to be a bigger issue for most.

I thank each of you for your responses.

 

[whatevergirl]

Originally Posted by agapewolf
*Do you really want to marry someone that will sleep with someone he’s not married to? *

Princess:
*Yes, I really do… *

Forgive the bluntness here, but it doesn’t seem that you are trully understanding the situation.

Don’t ever be surprised then if he sleeps with someone he is NOT married to (even though you two may be married).

Princess, honestly, I am so glad that you are seeing God’s prompting in your life, and that you are listening to it. There is so much in this situation that is screaming for you guys to take a deep breath, step back, and study what you are about to do here. Read theology of the body. (the Christopher West book suggested already). Read about what sex really is.

Look, marriage is about helping the spouse and children get to heaven. You will be held accountable for his soul, and his yours. The Husband is the spiritual head of the household…yet since he is not Catholic, you will have to fill that role. God did not design women that way. Although some wives might be successful at it, its a hard hard road. …kids “take” to their faith when their faithers teach them.

What if something happens to you, will he raise the children Catholic? You will be held accountable for that. You are choosing a non-practicing protestant that doesn’t seem to have much of a basis of faith for his morality as your future husband and father of your children.

You don’t have to answer these questions to me, but somehow you’ve got to undertake how absolutely serious this is.

hello agapewolf;

I totally understand your point–but my husband was sexually active before meeting me, and has been 100% faithful. I don’t think that he has even been tempted to cheat–and we were even separated. And I don’t think someone being chaste before marriage, means that he/she will never have an affair. I understand the logic, and reasoning–but I don’t think that it’s fair to state that as a reason Princess should wait–out of fear that her future husband may do the same to her. Just my thoughts, agape…

 

[Brennypants]

Originally Posted by agapewolf
*Do you really want to marry someone that will sleep with someone he’s not married to? *

Princess:
*Yes, I really do… *

Forgive the bluntness here, but it doesn’t seem that you are trully understanding the situation.

Don’t ever be surprised then if he sleeps with someone he is NOT married to (even though you two may be married).

Princess, honestly, I am so glad that you are seeing God’s prompting in your life, and that you are listening to it. There is so much in this situation that is screaming for you guys to take a deep breath, step back, and study what you are about to do here. Read theology of the body. (the Christopher West book suggested already). Read about what sex really is.

Look, marriage is about helping the spouse and children get to heaven. You will be held accountable for his soul, and his yours. The Husband is the spiritual head of the household…yet since he is not Catholic, you will have to fill that role. God did not design women that way. Although some wives might be successful at it, its a hard hard road. …kids “take” to their faith when their faithers teach them.

What if something happens to you, will he raise the children Catholic? You will be held accountable for that. You are choosing a non-practicing protestant that doesn’t seem to have much of a basis of faith for his morality as your future husband and father of your children.

You don’t have to answer these questions to me, but somehow you’ve got to undertake how absolutely serious this is.

While I think there are some very good points in the above, I would hesitate to suggest that because these to are having sex out of marriage, H2B will eventually break the vows they plan on taking and commit adultery. That would not be a “you made your bed, now lie in it” situation. To tell the OP “not to be suprised if” is harsh to the extreme.

To the OP: My husband and I were together for a year before we were married, and were sleeping together for most of that time. I was born and raised catholic, he was not. A couple months before the wedding, I told him I wanted us to stop having sex, because it would make our wedding night more special, and because as a catholic I felt we had been sinning and I wanted to make some sort of amends. His response was “your not really that catholic since you don’t go to church every weekend. Besides, we’ve already sinned, there’s no going back now.” I caved up until about two weeks pre wedding, and then I put my foot down. I wish I would have done that earlier.

I know this is hard for you, because not only are you having sex, but your living as man and wife, just without the sacrament. All I can say to help you I guess is that your starting to get on track and that takes some serious strength of will. I commend you. You H2B isn’t going to like it. This will be very hard on both of you. But if you can get through these very difficult 9 months without breaking you renewed celebacy… well I think it will strengthen your marriage, and your friendship, as well as your faith in God.

 

[Brennypants]

One more thing:

I know several men that cheated on their wives because The had only ever been with one women (wifey) and wanted to see what it would be like to sleep with someone else.

Chastity before marriage does not equal a guarantee of faithfullness.

 

[agapewolf]

I never said he would cheat. I’m saying don’t be surprised. He thinks its ok to sleep with someonehe isn’t married to.

It is completely logical.

I have been involved in marriage prep, and also, my office is on the way to the adoration chapel. This means that I see folks in and out every hour.

I can’t tell you how many times people stop by to pour their heart out to me about all sorts of things. What do you think is the biggest heart ache? Marriage issues.

When getting down to the core issues, it has been mixed marriges, contraception, and sexual activity prior to marriage.

These are very real true experiences that I based my statement on.

 

[Princess18]

Don’t ever be surprised then if he sleeps with someone he is NOT married to (even though you two may be married).

Do you give that advice to all engaged women? Never mind, don’t answer that.

The Husband is the spiritual head of the household…yet since he is not Catholic, you will have to fill that role. God did not design women that way. Although some wives might be successful at it, its a hard hard road. …kids “take” to their faith when their faithers teach them.

This response is unbelievably offensive. Comments such as this actually scare people away from the faith, not enlighten them.

What if something happens to you, will he raise the children Catholic? You will be held accountable for that. You are choosing a non-practicing protestant that doesn’t seem to have much of a basis of faith for his morality as your future husband and father of your children.

Not everyone was “blessed” to have been born to a Catholic family. Shouldn’t you be questioning MY morals, MY likelihood to cheat, or how I will screw up our kids instead of him? He is not the one standing here in front of you, I am. He is more “Catholic” in his behavior than I am, BY FAR. We are at equal points of lapsed religion, me more than him, because I ought to know better, right? I could list 50 Christ-like Protestants I know for every ONE good Catholic I encounter, and about 100 morally lax, apathetic, self-proclaimed Catholics for the same exchange. Given them as my choice, I pick him every day and ten times on Sunday.

You are WAY out of line. Your judgemental attitude sucks all the air out of the room. You should be ASHAMED of yourself.

 

[Brennypants]

I never said he would cheat. I’m saying don’t be surprised. He thinks its ok to sleep with someonehe isn’t married to.

It is completely logical.

I have been involved in marriage prep, and also, my office is on the way to the adoration chapel. This means that I see folks in and out every hour.

I can’t tell you how many times people stop by to pour their heart out to me about all sorts of things. What do you think is the biggest heart ache? Marriage issues.

When getting down to the core issues, it has been mixed marriges, contraception, and sexual activity prior to marriage.

These are very real true experiences that I based my statement on.

By your logic, he shouldn’t be suprised if SHE cheats? Most catholics have sex before marriage, and then feel really guilty about it, and I think that has an effect on them more than the actual act. They feel bad out of fear. Not faith. Is it really a wonder these core issues are the norm? These are things we all bear. Contraception, NFP, marital problems, etc.

 

[Brennypants]

i need to type faster.

 

[Sina]

By your logic, he shouldn’t be suprised if SHE cheats? Most catholics have sex before marriage, and then feel really guilty about it, and I think that has an effect on them more than the actual act. They feel bad out of fear. Not faith. Is it really a wonder these core issues are the norm? These are things we all bear. Contraception, NFP, marital problems, etc.

Great discussion despite some attitude.

I wholly agree with you Brenny, that contraception, NFP and all around marital problems are things we all bear to some degree and some have more issues and some have less.

I just think the OP needs to explore all of these issues and how they will be handled when her and her fiancé are married.

 

[jmcrae]

From a practical point of view, the best way to get back to more of an “engaged to be married” status would be to live separately until the wedding night. How this plays out would be up to you, but it would certainly make it a whole lot easier to remain chastely celibate during the engagement period. (The extra hours of work to pay the extra rent would be only the first deterrent. )

In another thread we were discussing the lie of “follow your heart.” Somewhere in the Book of Proverbs it says that the heart is the most deceitful organ in the whole body - more people get destroyed following their heart than any other body part.

This means that the one thing you have to not do is “follow your heart.” Follow your feet, follow your gut, follow your common sense, but don’t follow your heart - it’s going to get you into deeper trouble than you can get out of.

You know that living together without marriage is wrong, so you need to stop doing that. You know that sex before or outside of marriage is wrong, so you need to stop doing that.

You know that, and what you came here for was to hear that, so that you can know that your common sense is working right. It is. Get out there and do it, now.

 

[hasikelee]

I think this is off topic. Let’s help her be chaste and that will take care of the condom issue. She has already said they agreed to NFP after the wedding.

~Liza

Sorry, I’m not trying to be off topic so much as I was trying to show her that future hubby might have room for growing.

Right now she says she has found that sexual intimacy before marriage is sinful, but FH disagrees. She doesn’t want to stop because it will hurt his feelings.

I wanted her to delve deeper into the whole subject, because there is plenty more than just feelings at risk here. What will happen if their barrier fails before marriage? Have they talked about accepting a baby before marriage? Is that something he is willing to accept for sexual intimacy?

From the OP’s posts alone, it sounds as if FH is very selfish and OP naturally gives in to him. Of course, every story has two sides, but this is all we have right now. Is OP conscious of her vulnerability in this relationship?

 

[agapewolf]

Originally Posted by agapewolf
*The Husband is the spiritual head of the household…yet since he is not Catholic, you will have to fill that role. God did not design women that way. Although some wives might be successful at it, its a hard hard road. …kids “take” to their faith when their faithers teach them. *

Princess:
This response is unbelievably offensive.

whoa…how in the world is stating that the husband is spiritual head of the household offensive? This is scriptural. This is God’s design. I didnt’ make it up. READ THEOLOGY OF THE BODY!!!
This is also fact that kids do not take to their faith nearly as well when they only get it from their mothers. They DO however have a way better chance when they learn the faith and practice from their fathers. This is also fact. Don’t blame the messenger.

Look, This is the same warnings we give to couples in marriage prep at my parish and many in our diocese. These are all very very serious issues. I am not ashamed of myself. You’ve got some very very serious things to think about.

By the way, this is not judgement. This is truth. Stating what is moral and faith based truth is not judgement. Judgement is saying someone is going to hell. I’ve not condemned anyone here.

We are however, talking about eternal life, and the purpose of marriage and getting to heaven. I didn’t say anything offense. Read it again. It is merely non-emotional facts about the purpose of marriage and questions to ask yourself. I’m sorry if it stings a bit, but you’ve got to consider all these things. I told you…don’t answer them to me. Why would you not want thurough marriage preparation, examing every single issue you might ever have to deal with? Why would you want to be willfully ignorant of these things?

 

[Princess18]

it sounds as if FH is very selfish and OP naturally gives in to him. Of course, every story has two sides, but this is all we have right now. Is OP conscious of her vulnerability in this relationship?

You could not be more wrong. He is the most giving and loving man I have ever met. He gives in to me. I am, without a doubt, the dominant force of this relationship. I get everything I want, he denies me nothing. It’s he that should be questioning our match. Did you even read my posts? Where did I say anything but “he’s wonderful and supportive?”

This was a mistake. Posting here was a mistake. Expecting self-righteous pontificating Catholics to not demonize my amazing non-Catholic future husband was a huge huge mistake. How can I invite him to convert and join a group that judges everyone else? Isn’t that God’s job? This is why I left the church to begin with. Stupidly, I thought attitudes about our Christian siblings had changed in 16 years. Our priest saw that he was a good man and did not see the need to judge him, why would anyone else? Silly me.

Those of you who shared with me your similar experience about the question I asked … I thank you deeply, from the bottom of my heart. My anger is in no way directed towards you, and I thank you for sharing something so personal (and dangerous, apparently) as your sin. I know that most of you were trying to help, and you have. Greatly. And don’t fret that this has deterred me from coming back to the church. It hasn’t. It only educated me that I was not returning to the warm, embracing, humble, and FORGIVING church I thought I’d find. I’ll be keeping my interactions to the parishioners and priests who work towards our growth as a couple, not against it. Those are the people who are the true hope and future of our Catholic faith.

Those of you who are so quick to judge - have fun up there on your high horse, patting yourselves on the back at how right you are. Hope that your perfection makes you happy … if it doesn’t, you’re pretty much screwed, right?

I won’t be posting here again.