England and Wales to See Sharp Rise in Ordination

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Hmmmmmmm… How much of this is due to the influx from people fleeing the Episcopalian Church due to their pernicious doctrine?
 
Whatever the reason - as long as they love the Fullness of Truth, obey the Church, and live good holy lives - why is the “hmmmmmm” even necessary?

🤷

I think it’s fantastic news!!

~Liza
 
lizaanne said:
Whatever the reason - as long as they love the Fullness of Truth, obey the Church, and live good holy lives - why is the “hmmmmmm” even necessary?

🤷

I think it’s fantastic news!!

~Liza
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Quoted for truth.
 
From the article cited in the first post
Fr Langridge said the diocese had “moved from a model of recruitment to discernment”, emphasising that all young Catholics have a vocation and must be “encouraged to become better disciples of Christ”.
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Archbishop Peter Smith of Southwark appointed Fr Langridge as full-time director of vocations for the archdiocese earlier this month. It is the first time in 30 years that this has been a full-time post.
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The appointment follows the launch of the National Vocations Framework, which has been adopted by the Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales to “promote a culture of vocation”.
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Perhaps this emphasis on everyone discerning their vocation has helped increase interest in the priesthood?
 
This is wonderful news, but we cannot be satisfied. We, in the USA and in the UK, must never become complacent. This is a good spike, and I hate to be a downer, but it could just be a random thing. When I see five or so years of sustained growth, then that will be a cause for joy.
 
Dale_M said:
England and Wales has experienced a priestly vocations rate very unlike the US. Their rate of new ordinations increased through the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s. It reached the high point in 1995, then plummeted

Average annua****l priestly ordinations, by decade

1930s - 06
1940s - 18
1950s - 45
1960s - 65
1970s - 75
1980s - 94
1990s - 91
2000s - 26

catholicchurch.org.uk/content/download/29142/201066/file/ordinations-to-dio-priesthood-1982-current.pdf

(click picture to make bigger)
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**This puts it into perspective. The numbers are below that of the 50s when the English Catholic population was much smaller. Since then there has been some growth mainly due to immigration to England of Eastern Europeans and many Poles…

Based on per capita population the 38 being ordained this year probably fits with the low numbers from the 30s or 40s.

Interesting statistic on church attendance:

Total Church Attendance in England 1980-2005

Year 1980 1985 1990 1995 2000 2005

Anglican 1,370,400 1,264,600 1,259,800 1,126,700 963,300 870,600
Roman Catholic 2,064,000 1,851,500 1,571,300 1,360,500 1,090,400 893,100

Source: British Religion in Numbers

You always hear there are more Catholics than Anglicans in church in England on Sunday . This is true but nothing new. It was that way in 1980. Based on actual numbers the collapse in Catholic Sunday attendance since then is worse than the collapse in Anglican attendance. Anglican attendance, if the trends continue, will surpass Catholic attenmdance in the near future.

Bottom line, neither church is in need of new physical facilities.

**
 
Am I right in thnking that these ordination stats refer only to diocesan clergy?

If so, then there are many more priests in the pipeline - Redemptorists, Dominicans, many more Orders and Congregations.
 
paperwight66 said:
Am I right in thnking that these ordination stats refer only to diocesan clergy?

If so, then there are many more priests in the pipeline - Redemptorists, Dominicans, many more Orders and Congregations.
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You are correct and make a good point. The numbers I posted, and the numbers in the *Catholic Herald *article, refer only to diocesan ordinations. So presumably there are additional religious priests being ordained.
 
Nimzovik said:
Hmmmmmmm… How much of this is due to the influx from people fleeing the Episcopalian Church due to their pernicious doctrine?
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Hi Nimzovik,

Good question - but Im happy to report that none of these guys are Church of England defectors, they are all the result of men applying to Catholic seminary directly.

Sure, the numbers are still fairly small, but the % increase is impressive. From 20 men ordained in England & Wales this year, to an expected 38 ordained in just 2 years time is a big jump - almost a 100% rise in 2 years.

I expect the jump is down to various things:
  • change in the way the Church tries to attract priests etc
  • results of a large prayer campaign
  • result of the recent (2010) UK Papal Visit
The excellent Bishop of Shrewsbury, Mark Williams, is also having the Heart of St John Vianney (the cur d’ ars) - patron saint of priests - brought to his diocese to be venerated this summer. So hopefully this notable event will have a positive effect too.

FYI the UK Ordinariate (which is small) has got close to about 70 priests now, including several former Anglican Bishops. The first 2 men, not to have been previously Anglican priests, were ordained as Ordinariate Priests recently - both very young, in their 20s.

I think the Ordinariate will grow substantially when:
  • reforms to the way the Chruch of England is connected to the Monarcy stops stigmatising British Catholics
  • the Church of England finally gets women Bishops
In other good news, the number of women becoming nuns in england & wales trebled over 3 years (though again numbers are small) - it went from just 6 new recruits in 2008, to 17 in 2011.

I always ensure to pray for vocations in the UK, especially Scotland.
 
Dale_M said:
So presumably there are additional religious priests being ordained.
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Thats is true, but it is just a handful in the UK - I saw the numbers somewhere recently, but cant recall exactly sorry.
 
Tobias2 said:
Bottom line, neither church is in need of new physical facilities.
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Hi Tobias,

Your last data is from 2005 - much has happened since then.
  • the EU expansion has meant many Catholic Europeans have come to Britain, notably Poles. This has helped shore up the number of Catholics. I used to be quite anti-immigration, even EU immigration, till I realised its a great source of additional Catholics! Now I think “Open the gates!”
  • Most significantly, I started going back to Church personally lol (along with other lapsed Catholics, I am aware of at least one other man)
  • the UK 2010 Papal visit will have helped inspire some people back to church too.
It is only in the last couple of years that the British media has dared acknowledge that Catholcisim is the single biggest religious group in the UK, (including both england and scotland as separate entities), based on actual attendances.

(They would never have *dared *print something like that news, even as recently as 1980).

The Church of england is in terminal decline. The only group who could now possibly overtake Catholics in the UK are muslims.
 
Tobias2 said:
**This puts it into perspective. The numbers are below that of the 50s when the English Catholic population was much smaller. Since then there has been some growth mainly due to immigration to England of Eastern Europeans and many Poles…

Based on per capita population the 38 being ordained this year probably fits with the low numbers from the 30s or 40s.

Interesting statistic on church attendance:

Total Church Attendance in England 1980-2005

Year 1980 1985 1990 1995 2000 2005

Anglican 1,370,400 1,264,600 1,259,800 1,126,700 963,300 870,600
Roman Catholic 2,064,000 1,851,500 1,571,300 1,360,500 1,090,400 893,100

Source: British Religion in Numbers

You always hear there are more Catholics than Anglicans in church in England on Sunday . This is true but nothing new. It was that way in 1980. Based on actual numbers the collapse in Catholic Sunday attendance since then is worse than the collapse in Anglican attendance. Anglican attendance, if the trends continue, will surpass Catholic attenmdance in the near future.

Bottom line, neither church is in need of new physical facilities.

**
Click to expand...
Considering that Catholics are obliged to attend mass - something that isn’t an obligation on Anglicans - make the massive percentage fall in Catholic mass numbers over this 25 year period (57%) very worrying indeed, and you are right to question the incorrect assumptions about the decline in the numbers in the Church of England when their numbers have actually fallen much much slower in percentage terms (36%), and have increased substantially in London. Also unlike us they have no shortage of priests coming forward for ordination.

There will have been some recovery in Catholic mass attendance because of recent immigration from Eastern Europe, but many of those plan to go back at some point so this will not be sustainable growth. Also I know the child abuse scandals in Ireland have had a huge impact on Irish people living in England and rocked their faith in the church.

I hope that the recent attempts in some places to improve the way the liturgy is celebrated, and to eliminate the dreadful music many have to endure at mass may help to arrest the long-term downward trend.
 
liturgyluver said:
Considering that Catholics are obliged to attend mass - something that isn’t an obligation on Anglicans - make the massive percentage fall in Catholic mass numbers over this 25 year period (57%) very worrying indeed, and you are right to question the incorrect assumptions about the decline in the numbers in the Church of England when their numbers have actually fallen much much slower in percentage terms (36%), and have increased substantially in London. Also unlike us they have no shortage of priests coming forward for ordination.

There will have been some recovery in Catholic mass attendance because of recent immigration from Eastern Europe, but many of those plan to go back at some point so this will not be sustainable growth. Also I know the child abuse scandals in Ireland have had a huge impact on Irish people living in England and rocked their faith in the church.

I hope that the recent attempts in some places to improve the way the liturgy is celebrated, and to eliminate the dreadful music many have to endure at mass may help to arrest the long-term downward trend.
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**I agree.

The Catholic church in England is holding it’s own because of foreign immigration. Not a wave of native conversions.

AC has turned out to be a whimper in England so far with very few Anglicans coming into the church via the provision.

In the US if you eliminate the massive Hispanic immigration of the last decades the Catholic church would be in collpase basically as is the Episcopal church here. In terms of number of adherents.

The danger of using distorted “growth” figures (distorted by large immigration from 90% Catholic countries)is that the inherent problems facing the Catholic church in holding onto it’s members and especially the young are not addressed.**
 
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