A
- Status
G
GEddie
Guest
Would this have gone anywhere? Or is it just a protest against Magisterial policy?
ICXC NIKA
ICXC NIKA
M
Murmurs
Guest
I think it was maybe just an excuse to have the discussion, or “just” so Bishop Seamus could tell his priests that he’d he had put their case to the council of bishops.
Even if the discipline of a celibate clergy is a good one (certainly one I support although I do understand why people might make contrary arguments), it never hurts sometimes formally to ask the question “are we sure we want to keep doing this?” It reminds us of the good reasons it ever happened in the first place.
G
GEddie
Guest
It may be good to have the debate, but when it originates at the local level it smacks of, and will be seen from outside as, dissension.
ICXC NIKA
ICXC NIKA
L
Lily_Bernans
Guest
Good for the English and Welsh bishops! I definitely believe in a celibate clergy!
U
Usige
Guest
I suspect if you had mentioned discussions of communion in the hand, female altar servers, or mass in the vernacular 60 years ago people would have thought the same thing. If the bishops conference had approved it it is possible they would have asked for dispensation to ordain married men. This is exactly how the dispensation for communion in the hand came about; at the request of various episcopal conferences.
G
GEddie
Guest
Vernacular liturgy required a Church council to come about.
I doubt another council would be at hand before the 2100s at least, unless the Orthodox asked for reunion.
Is suppression of priestly celibacy really on the same level as Communion in the hand? Or can it be done locally?
ICXC NIKA
Cloisters
Well-known member
The Pastoral Provision exists for married Anglican clergy (not sure about other denominations). The Ordinariates exist, too.
It’s not up to the bishops anyway. Only the Holy See can make the decision, since it’s church law. Pope Francis has considered changing it.
Blessings,
Cloisters
It’s not up to the bishops anyway. Only the Holy See can make the decision, since it’s church law. Pope Francis has considered changing it.
Blessings,
Cloisters
M
Mongo
Guest
Why? The ordinary magisterium is the faith of the faithful, not just the bishops. The local is often the basis of discipline. The discipline of mandatory celebacy for the priesthood ultimately started as a local thing. It was particularly a western issue. The east never had mandatory celibacy, except when the west has forced it upon them. In a certain sense everything the church has ever done has started as a local issue. The church never just forces things from top down.
M
Mongo
Guest
Celibacy is a discipline that hasn’t always been the norm. For the first millennium a married priesthood was the norm, and it is still the norm in the east.
I personally support a married priesthood. In my diocese the number of priests is quickly dropping. Within ten years there will be less than half the number of priests there are now according to the projections of the diocese. And they are already short on priests. The church has to make some serious changes. I think a married priesthood is a good option.
G
GEddie
Guest
Because marriage after ordination will not become the norm, expect then to see hordes leave formation to find a wife. The situation now will then seem like the good old days.
ICXC NIKA
U
Usige
Guest
Both priestly celibacy and how communion is received are matters of discipline and can therefore be dispensed. Most don’t realize that the Vatican could rescind the dispensation to receive in the hand and all Catholics would be obliged to return to the universal norm of receiving on the tongue. It was only because bishop’s conferences asked for their areas to be dispensed from that discipline that people are allowed to receive in the hand. As such it is well within the purview of an episcopal conference to request a blanket dispensation from any matter of discipline. Now whether a dispensation would be granted to a whole national conference is a question none of us can answer at this time, but requesting it is not a matter of rebellion. If it was then basically every catholic bishops conference has been in rebellion for the past 40 years since they requested dispensation to distribute in the hand at the local conference level.
Remember that even if the English and Welsh Bishops had approved the request they would still have required dispensation for each ordination or a standing dispensation for any married man to be ordained in their jurisdiction. The conference would merely have said that they would allow married men to discern to the priesthood and would seek a standing dispensation rather than individual ones. It would still have been up to the Vatican to say yes or no.
L
Lily_Bernans
Guest
Would you please provide a link to a credible source? I do not think Pope Francis has considered changing the law that prohibits married men from being part of the priesthood.
L
Lily_Bernans
Guest
Actually, enrollment at seminaries is up somewhat and continues to rise.
npr.org/2015/09/23/442243849/at-u-s-seminaries-a-rise-in-millennials-answering-gods-call
christiancentury.org/article/2013-10/after-long-slump-number-catholic-seminarians-rise
nytimes.com/1999/04/17/us/enrollment-is-up-at-catholic-seminaries.html
I teach many of these young men. Any hesitation some of them initially had was not due to their promise of lifelong celibacy but involved other matters.
P
Paganus
Guest
But are you enough to support them?
Some might not contribute very heavily to support a priest and his wife and his twelve children when they have their own families to look after. It might seem less like giving to the Church and more like giving so that another man’s family can live better than their own.
And, if they did contribute, would this lead to an increase in clericalism?
L
Lily_Bernans
Guest
Married deacons, fine. Married priests, and I would stop giving any money to my parish or to any other. I would support Catholic charities by sending the money directly to the charity. There is no way I would support a priest, his wife, and children when Christ made it clear, by example, that the priesthood should be composed of unmarried men. A married man puts his family first; an unmarried priest puts his parishioners first. The priesthood should remain unmarried, and I firmly believe it will.
Enrollment at seminaries is up and continuing to rise. The young seminarians I teach tell me any initial hesitation they had was not due to lifelong celibacy. That is a gift from God that they gladly embrace.
M
Mongo
Guest
I said earlier that I support a married priesthood. As an eastern Catholic I think it is a great thing and that the west shouldn’t have abandoned it. I must revise my statement though. It appears to me that the option for a married priesthood is just one more opportunity for the west to abandon its traditions and faith. It would be nothing but a victory for progressives, who would then push further for women priests and every other heresy until they convince us to tear down our churches.
L
Lily_Bernans
Guest
Yes, it would. I support a married priesthood in the Eastern Churches because you have never abandoned one. It’s what your parishioners expect.
- Status