English Catholic congregation shocked as gay activist disrupts Mass with video cam

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Hokomai said:
I am not arguing that the actions were appropriate. I agree that the Mass was not a political event. However, the letter was political. When you do political things at non-political events, reaction, legal and illegal can be expected.
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No. And again, you have missed the point – the second time now. It doesn’t matter that (to you, or to those outside the Church, or to some or all of those worshipping inside that particular church location, “the letter was political.” Catholic Churches, Methodist Churches, Unitarian Universalist Churches, Baptist Churches, Presbyterian Churches, Lutheran Churches, Episcopalian/Anglican Churches, Jewish Synagogues, etc. should all expect that the integrity of their services are not to be disrupted for any reason by any person or persons, including for political reasons.

Any “protest” about any Church’s doctrinal beliefs and political positions should never happen during or within the context of formal religious ceremonies. Such behavior is without support, even --yes-- in a democracy. Religious services are not a democratic “moment” and opportunity, regardless of the issue or the contradictory passion about the issue.
 
Hokomai said:
My point was not that the action was legal, or appropriate, but that it was to be expected, and is not of the significance many posters seem to attribute to it.
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Wrong again. The significance of the disruption does and would strike the nerve of the vast majority of practicing, believing, worshipping Catholics on any particular liturgical occasion, including but not limited to Sunday. It’s not about “many posters.” It’s about the understanding, on the part of those who atttend Mass, of the objective signficance of the Mass. It is not about some supposedly disproportionate significance attributed to Mass by “many posters.” The many posters you see here who are registering disgust are representive of Mass-going Catholics; they are not some radical, reactionary wing of the Roman Church.

The Mass is not significant to you, as you admit to being a non-believer. Nor would it be significant to anyone with the audacity and bad manners to use the Mass as an opportunity for political protest. And many other traditions’ religious ceremonies are also not “significant” to me, as I do not embrace those beliefs. But I defend to the death the rights of those other faiths to hold their services without political harrassment from intruders and non-believers.
 
Hokomai said:
When the Church takes political stands, it can reasonably be expected that there will be political responses. This was one. Not a very good one, or a very effective one, or a very well-supported one, but that was all it was. No need to get excited. bad video too. Looked like he needed to manually set his white balance and forgot.
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Curiously, anyone who points out the same thing about homosexual aggression is immediately shut down as a “homophobic” “fascist.”
 
Elizabeth502 said:
No. And again, you have missed the point – the second time now. It doesn’t matter that (to you, or to those outside the Church, or to some or all of those worshipping inside that particular church location, “the letter was political.” Catholic Churches, Methodist Churches, Unitarian Universalist Churches, Baptist Churches, Presbyterian Churches, Lutheran Churches, Episcopalian/Anglican Churches, Jewish Synagogues, etc. should all expect that the integrity of their services are not to be disrupted for any reason by any person or persons, including for political reasons.

Any “protest” about any Church’s doctrinal beliefs and political positions should never happen during or within the context of formal religious ceremonies. Such behavior is without support, even --yes-- in a democracy. Religious services are not a democratic “moment” and opportunity, regardless of the issue or the contradictory passion about the issue.
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I understand this point of view, and support it. But I still think that someone using a video, and responding to questions is nothing to get excited about. You seem to think I am supporting the actions of the person with the camera. I have not done so. I have said only that political actions will produce political responses, and that those involved in politics should expect them. I did not say they should support them.
 
Hokomai said:
Words mean something. If proposing changes to, or defending, a law, is not political, the that adjective has no meaning. If words cease to have meaning then you are right: there is no point in going on. I will continue to argue on the basis that words do in fact mean something, since most people seem happy to agree with that. by the way, I am not trying to change your convictions. I am merely expressing my own.
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yeah.

i look at it from Gods perspective. Pity Cameron doesnt. God doesnt engage in politics. In this case, the Church isnt either, your words notwithstanding. GOOD versus EVIL. Full stop.

One consolation if this gets through parliament: when sharia law is imposed in the UK, and on “The Continent”, this peice of perverted/depraved legislation will be given the boot. So, it won`t be in force for very long.
 
Dale_M said:
Very rude and uncalled for. Its not as if the text of the letter wasn’t publicly available.

The disruption took place at the Church of Our Lady and St Patrick (All Saints Parish) in Teignmouth. The man who caused the disruption is a local composer and choirmaster, David Haines. He came forward to pose for a photo which appeared in the local newspaper.
teignmouth-today.co.uk/news.cfm?id=9990&headline=Church%20protest%20film%20is%20internet%20sensation

If charges are possible, it doesn’t sound as if he is fearful of them. However, he did say that a parishioner at the church identified himself as a policeman and threatened to arrest him.

Haines appears in the photo to be about 60 years old. He really should know better at that age.
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Erm…I don’t actually have a QUOTE per se, I just wanted to RESPOND by saying, “I’M WITH YA ON THIS, BROTHER. I COULDN’T AGREE MORE!”
 
To Catholics, the Mass deserves more reverence than a Speech from the Throne, or for Americans, a State of the Union address. And I think we all know what kind of uproar would follow someone barging into one of those occasions and interrupting…
 
Havard said:
And I think we all know what kind of uproar would follow someone barging into one of those occasions and interrupting…
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Indeed… the shout of “You lie!” from a US congressman interrupting President Obama’s State of the Union address is well known.
 
Dale_M said:
Indeed… the shout of “You lie!” from a US congressman interrupting President Obama’s State of the Union address is well known.
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Exactly. The interruption is outrageous because the reverence of the occasion is not up for question. The President’s Press Secretary is available for questions on a regular basis. Similarly, diocesan priests have an open door policy, and most of the time they come right out after Mass anyway to greet people.
 
Farsight001 said:
All he had to do was go up to the priest a few minutes before mass and ask for permission to set up a tripod in the back of church and film the service, and he would have gotten the same footage without being disruptive.
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YEAH! I KNOW! This was SO INAPPROPRIATE! Disrespectful, disruptive, and frankly, his attitude was BLASPHEMOUS! REALLY NOT O.K!

If he had first approached the Priest, HE KNEW DAMN GOOD AND WELL that the Priest would have probably told him, “No, our SANCTUARY is NOT a place to PUT ON YOUR SOCIO~POLITICAL SHOW! Perhaps, in the Fellowship Hall AFTER Mass” and I’m sure there would be RULES about not following anyone who did not wish to participate, not yelling, creating a big scene, or inciting any confrontations.

I’m not a violent person but frankly, I WANNA B!*(H SLAP HIM! HOW DARE HE BRING SUCH OFFENSE BEFORE OUR LORD AND HOLY MOTHER!:mad: I’M LIVID!
 
Militant Homosexuality. Get used to it. Never criticize the homosexual agenda or lifestyle. Otherwise, you will be branded a bigot, homophobic, or you are are questioning your own sexual orientation if you do. That’s the way they roll…😦

There is no such thing as free speech in the liberal world.
 
jay29 said:
Militant Homosexuality. Get used to it. Never criticize the homosexual agenda or lifestyle. Otherwise, you will be branded a bigot, homophobic, or you are are questioning your own sexual orientation if you do. That’s the way they roll…😦

There is no such thing as free speech in the liberal world.
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I agree. When used in a respectable and mature way to debate, free speech is a good thing. Sometimes it is used by immature people who only intend to hurt or humiliate with their words and hide behind said “free speech”. To enter God’s house and propose that His commands and precepts are wrong or out of touch is never a good strategy.

God bless 👍
 
All I know is that this is a tragic generational phenomenon with which we are forced to contend . I couldn’t even imagine trying to explain this story to my deceased father, who was a proud member of what we now call, “the Greatest Generation”. He was a very spiritual man, but his convictions were as hard as flint.

It would go something like this: “Dad, militant homosexuals are so bold that they are now disrupting Holy Mass”, his reply, “Militant what…who? What do they want?” My reply would be…perplexed silence. How do you answer a question like that, to a guy for whom absolutes were non-negoltiable.

There’s the question, isn’t it? What do they want? The REAL answer to that, I fear, is a very dark, diabolical, and frightening one. These homosexual radical groups are merely tendrils of a larger organism which wishes to dismantle traditional moral precepts and values. I guess, they want to eradicate the very singular Laws of God.

Sometimes, I wonder what my father would have done if radical homosexuals threw condoms at his daughters as they left church; or if they had disturbed Holy Mass in his presence? My recollection of the man, and his peers, leads me to believe that they would not have passively stood by, and let it happen. Different times…I suppose.
 
The baby boomers on forward are America’s worse generations. Absolute embarrassments. I’m part of it and I hate it. All the debauchery and the like…Kids pushing strollers in school. The homosexual lifestyles being forced down our throats. Abortion being sugar coated…Disgust all around. :mad:
 
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