Enoch and Elijah in heaven?

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Hello everyone.

Trying to get my head around the above mentioned men being taken to heaven but Jesus telling Nichodemus that no man has ascended into heaven?

Any help please?
 
They were both “taken”, but the Bible doesn’t say to where.
 
Ascended means under “one’s own power”.

Maybe that helps.
 
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Where Is Heaven? Not a Place? Philosophy
What Fr. Ryland is suggesting flies in the face of credible sources. His opinion doesn’t equal fact. Ecclesiasticus 44:16 (Douay-Rheims) Henoch pleased God, and was translated into paradise, that he may give repentance to the nations. Malachi 4:5 See, I will send the prophet Elijah to you before that great and dreadful day of the LORD comes. St. Irenaeus, Adversus Haereses, Liber 4, Cap. 30 The disciples of the Apostles say that they (Enoch and Elijah) whose living bodies were taken up fro…
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According to Tradition, Elijah and Enoch are in an earthly paradise awaiting the arrival of the Antichrist.
 
Tom7 said:
Hello everyone.

Trying to get my head around the above mentioned men being taken to heaven but Jesus telling Nichodemus that no man has ascended into heaven?

Any help please?
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If you look at Heb 11, you’ll see that Enoch had not yet entered heaven.

Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Note that none of the men listed in this chapter, entered heaven.

39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

Now, Elijah is not mentioned in this chapter, but I think he’s supposed to be included because he’s one of those who obtained a good report through faith. But no one entered heaven before:

40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

I hope that helps.
 
“Ascend” means to get to heaven under their own power. The only human body to do that was Jesus.

Enoch, Elijah, Mary, they were “assumed” into heaven, taken up by the power of God.
 
Catholic teaches that only 2 bodies are in Heaven, the Divine one Christ Jesus and Blessed Mother Mary. We do not know where Enoch and Elijah are, or are waiting. Some believe they will be the 2 witness in Revelations and are waiting in an ‘earthly paradise’ until their return.
 
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annad347 said:
Didnt they enter heaven before Jesus was crucified?
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The Apostle Creed teaches us this:

“He descended into hell;
on the third day He rose again from the dead”

Which means Christ opened up gates to Heaven for those living on the Abraham side of Hades (Sheol). Heaven was not open until Christ died.
 
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This is interesting. I am aware of this tradition… but it just occurred to me… Catholics pray to St Elijah. His feast is a big deal on the Carmelite calendar and he is also a popular saint among Middle Eastern Christians. If he isn’t in heaven, he’s still in a position to hear prayers and intercede before God?
 
twf said:
This is interesting. I am aware of this tradition… but it just occurred to me… Catholics pray to St Elijah. His feast is a big deal on the Carmelite calendar and he is also a popular saint among Middle Eastern Christians. If he isn’t in heaven, he’s still in a position to hear prayers and intercede before God?
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All the canonized Saints are in heaven, today. All those OT Saints in Chapter 11 of Hebrews, were led into heaven by Jesus Christ. That’s why He “descended into hell”, in order to open the door of heaven to them.
 
Tom7 said:
Hello everyone.

Trying to get my head around the above mentioned men being taken to heaven but Jesus telling Nichodemus that no man has ascended into heaven?

Any help please?
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What is heaven?

Catechism
1026 … Heaven is the blessed community of all who are perfectly incorporated into Christ.
1042 At the end of time, the Kingdom of God will come in its fullness. After the universal judgment, the righteous will reign for ever with Christ, glorified in body and soul. The universe itself will be renewed: …
1043 Sacred Scripture calls this mysterious renewal, which will transform humanity and the world, “new heavens and a new earth.”…
1044 In this new universe, the heavenly Jerusalem, God will have his dwelling among men. …
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In general, yes. But I was responding to a post that cited the very old tradition that Elijah and Enoch were taken away to an earthly paradise to await their role as the two witnesses at the end of days.
 
twf said:
If he isn’t in heaven, he’s still in a position to hear prayers and intercede before God?
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Although this is Private Prophecy, perhaps part of their preparation involves hearing these prayers.

“Enoch and Elias will be instructed by God in a most secret manner in Paradise. God reveals to them the actions and condition of men that they may regard them with eyes of compassion. Because of this special preparation, these two holy men are more wise than all the wise men on earth taken together. God will give them the task of opposing the Antichrist and bringing back those who have strayed from the way of salvation.”

(St. Hildegard, Scivias, Visio II)

Trial, Tribulation & Triumph: Before, During, and After Antichrist Trial, Tribulation & Triumph: Before, During, and After Antichrist: Birch, Desmond A.: 9781882972739: Amazon.com: Books
 
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The Hebrew word for “heaven” is the same Hebrew word for “the sky”.

Sacred Scripture does not teach us Elijah entered into the Beatific vision. (Scripture gives us even less details on Enoch). Nor oral Tradition.

Jesus opened the gates of Heaven.

We don’t quite know WHERE Elijah went.

But we explicitly know where he did NOT go.

No son of Adam entered into Heaven before our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ did in His Human nature. Heaven was closed against every child of Adam.

(Of course Jesus is God, so in that sense He has always been in Heaven).
ROMAN CATECHISM. . . Wherefore before His death and Resurrection heaven was closed against every child of Adam. The souls of the just, on their departure from this life, were either borne to the bosom of Abraham; or, . . . were purified in the fire of purgatory.
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Hope this helps.

God bless.

Cathoholic
 
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TheLittleLady said:
Enoch, Elijah, Mary, they were “assumed” into heaven, taken up by the power of God
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What do you mean by assumed into heaven? That the body and soul were taken up without dying? There are several reasons because it is understood that these three will play a part in the end of days, is one. The other reasons given was (like Moses) their graves were hidden. “No one knows his burial place” (Deuteronomy 34:6)— …Jude verse 9 refers to an event which is found nowhere else in Scripture. Michael had to struggle or dispute with Satan about the body of Moses.

Moses and Elijah are assumed to be the two witnesses that will return before the tribulation. Also, it is said that Mary will return at that time. So whether it is “assumed” can mean taken for another time. I am not sure…

Thoughts on the subject of hidden? The crucifixion of Jesus was providing or allowing creation to be redeemed. (See the Book of wisdom, " Although she is one, she can do all things, and she renews everything) A way of returning mankind back to God …which I believe. However, the accuser - satan, did not want. This adversary can not be returned and not be forgiven - redeemed. 24But by the envy* of the devil, death entered the world, and they who are allied with him experience it.q

The tribulation, is in the same flex. The great fight!

Entering heaven alive​

There are two possible exceptions to this general rule that humans could not go to heaven, Enoch and Elijah, but neither is clear. The Genesis 5:24 mentions Enoch as one who “…walked faithfully with God; then he was no more, because God took him away,” but it does not explicitly say whether he was alive or dead, and it does not say where God took him. The Books of Kings describes the prophet Elijah being taken towards “shamayim” in a whirlwind, but the word can mean both heaven as the abode of God, or the sky (as the word “heavens” does in modern English), and so again the text is ambiguous.
 
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