Enoch and Elijah

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Faith1960

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I’ve been trying to understand the glorified bodies of Jesus and Mary, as well as
What heaven is like, which has brought me to Enoch and Elijah.
  1. Their bodies weren’t glorified, right?
  2. Where did THEY go?
 
I’ve been trying to understand the glorified bodies of Jesus and Mary, as well as
What heaven is like, which has brought me to Enoch and Elijah.
  1. Their bodies weren’t glorified, right?
  2. Where did THEY go?
Well according to some highly mystical Jewish traditions, not actually biblical, Enoch was
taken to Heaven (is biblical), then became the angel Metatron, transforming into a fiery be-
ing, flesh like flames, bones like burning coal, eye’s like lightning, you know, not in a dem-
onic way. That’s extra-biblical though (III Enoch), kind of aside the question thus.

Yes, I believe that Enoch and Elijah were glorified, transformed, transfigured, somehow, no
idea what that would be like, what we’d expect to see, but if you’re in Heaven, or rather are
taken up into Heaven so that you don’t see physical death, I would expect that they were
glorified. Now where did they go? HEAVEN! Where is that? If anywhere in this universe,
I have no clue, otherwise I would say that it is no where in this whole cosmos.
 
Well according to some highly mystical Jewish traditions, not actually biblical, Enoch was
taken to Heaven (is biblical), then became the angel Metatron, transforming into a fiery be-
ing, flesh like flames, bones like burning coal, eye’s like lightning, you know, not in a dem-
onic way. That’s extra-biblical though (III Enoch), kind of aside the question thus.

Yes, I believe that Enoch and Elijah were glorified, transformed, transfigured, somehow, no
idea what that would be like, what we’d expect to see, but if you’re in Heaven, or rather are
taken up into Heaven so that you don’t see physical death, I would expect that they were
glorified. Now where did they go? HEAVEN! Where is that? If anywhere in this universe,
I have no clue, otherwise I would say that it is no where in this whole cosmos.
I thought Catholic teaching is that only Jesus and Mary have been glorified. No?
 
Some saints have prophesied that Enoch and Elijah did not taste death yet because they are the two witnesses that the antichrist will kill.They will come to earth again at the time of the beast to turn people back to God. They are supposedly in a level of heaven called paradise waiting for the final conflict.
 
The Hebrew word for “heaven” if I recall correctly, is the same as “the sky” here.

The verses do not mean Enoch and Elijah entered “Heaven” in the sense that we’d think.

Where did they go then? I don’t know.

The Roman Catechism specifically states (and I think the CCC does too but I’d have to look it up) that Jesus opened Heaven to humanity.
 
Though Matthew and Mark mention only Jesus appearing in glory on the mount of Tranfiguration, Luke (9:31) seems to suggest that Elijah’s body is now glorified:
29And as he was praying, the appearance of his countenance was altered, and his raiment became dazzling white. 30And behold, two men talked with him, Moses and Eli’jah, 31who appeared in glory and spoke of his departure, which he was to accomplish at Jerusalem. (Luke 9:30-31)
 
I thought Catholic teaching is that only Jesus and Mary have been glorified. No?
Our bodies will not be glorified until after the general resurrection. Only Jesus and Mary have glorified bodies now.

Linus2nd
 
I thought Catholic teaching is that only Jesus and Mary have been glorified. No?
Well I don’t know, like Jesus and Mary, Enoch and Elijah were taken bodily into Heaven.

I AM NOT SMART! 😃 So I could be wrong.
 
I’ve been trying to understand the glorified bodies of Jesus and Mary, as well as
What heaven is like, which has brought me to Enoch and Elijah.
  1. Their bodies weren’t glorified, right?
  2. Where did THEY go?
heaven if God let them there with others who are there with Him.

God bless
 
John 3: 13 “No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven–the Son of Man.”
 
I read a couple non-catholic articles that said they were “translated” instead of going to Heaven, they’d been caught up in a whirlwind and relocated.
 
I’ve been trying to understand the glorified bodies of Jesus and Mary, as well as
What heaven is like, which has brought me to Enoch and Elijah.
  1. Their bodies weren’t glorified, right?
  2. Where did THEY go?
Interesting thread. I want to point out that The Assumption of Mary does NOT contradict scripture because of how in the Old Testament Enoch and Elijah are taken up into heaven. Whether they are glorified or not we know that if they are in heaven then they are holy as nothing unholy will be allowed into heaven from Revelation. Holy would seem to indicate glorified to me. Cool stuff.
 
Some saints have prophesied that Enoch and Elijah did not taste death yet because they are the two witnesses that the antichrist will kill.They will come to earth again at the time of the beast to turn people back to God. They are supposedly in a level of heaven called paradise waiting for the final conflict.
Well the answer about the two witnesses is very simple with the following statement from Saint John:
John 3: 13 “No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven–the Son of Man.”
Therefore if Enoch and Elijah are not in heaven, therefore we do not have to worry about this theory that they are the two witnesses of ch. 11 of the Apocalypse!! Phew!!! 😉

The two witnesses are coming from withing the Catholic Church, nothing extraordinary, just like Jesus was born from a woman. Yes a very special woman, His mother; yes a very special Church: His Church. :hmmm:

Why to attribute to Old Testament figures something prophesy by our Lord who is bringing all things new? Also if in ch. 11 of the Apocalypse says that God will give to them and they will prophesy for 360 days. Why God will need to give them power to prophesy? If they were Enoch and Elijah they have the power already!! 😃

In the love of Christ,
Gloria

.
 
Dies this, below, written by a priest, mean that they weren’t translated but their SOULS were? And if so, doesn’t say that Enoch didn’t die?

ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage.asp?number=368490

But many ask whither Enoch was translated, and why he was translated, and why he did not die, neither he nor Elijah, and, if they are still alive, how they live, and in what form. But to ask these things is superfluous. For that the one was translated, and that the other was taken up, the Scriptures have said; but where they are, and how they are, they have not added: For they say nothing more than is necessary. For this indeed took place, I mean his translation, immediately at the beginning, the human soul [thereby] receiving a hope of the destruction of death, and of the overthrow of the devil’s tyranny, and that death will be done away; for he was translated, not dead, but “that he should not see death.”

From what is written in the OT is appears that most souls went to Sheol, the abode of the dead, about which little is told us except that one in Sheol is cut off from the living and may be in some sort of surreal or dreamlike state. But I would not want to teach anything definitively in this regard, given the dearth of OT evidence. It may be that Elijah, Enoch and certain others of the OT, such as martyrs, were given some anticipated share in the vision of God even prior to the crucifixion, given by grace in anticipation of the saving event. So they would still be saved by Christ but in anticipation, as was grace applied to the Blessed Mother in anticipation to preserve her from original sin. In one sense, the gates of heaven were closed apart from the saving act of our Lord and it appears the bulk of those saved awaited Him in Sheol; but I do not think we can rule out some OT exceptions given an early preview which may have been partial, and only full with the actual saving event on the cross. And as to their bodies, again, most OT figures no doubt corrupted in body after death. But with regards to Elijah and Enoch, I am not inclined to think they enjoyed the full privilege our Blessed Mother enjoys even now (the Catechism describes this as a singular privilege granted Mary) but God knows what grace did in their cases. And we should remember that the grace of Christ was operative long before the crucifixion itself, as is evident in the some of the righteous figures and deeds of the saints of the OT period.

Finally, we should note the text of Jn 3:13 which reads: “No one has ascended into heaven but he who descended from heaven, the Son of man.” This would tend to confirm the fact tha Elijah and Enoch, while having some special experience, did not ascend into the fullness of heaven.
 
I’ve been trying to understand the glorified bodies of Jesus and Mary, as well as
What heaven is like, which has brought me to Enoch and Elijah.
  1. Their bodies weren’t glorified, right?
  2. Where did THEY go?
To God, every moment of creation is now.

Perhaps they were simply taken to the point in creation where they will be needed next.

There is no real need for them to actually ‘be’ anywhere in the intervening time.
 
Some saints have prophesied that Enoch and Elijah did not taste death yet because they are the two witnesses that the antichrist will kill.They will come to earth again at the time of the beast to turn people back to God. They are supposedly in a level of heaven called paradise waiting for the final conflict.
Also we must be very careful to believe what Jesus said about Elijah if we do not want to be deceived:

“12 but I tell you that Eli′jah has already come, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they pleased.” Mt 17:12

“But I tell you that Eli′jah has come, and they did to him whatever they pleased, as it is written of him” Mk 9:13

Jesus was referring to Saint John the Baptist in this passages.

Therefore Elijah is not one of the two witnesses, neither Enoch. The two witnesses are witnesses of Jesus Christ, are two of His followers, any other figure suggested belongs to the Old Testament prophets: it is not right, they are not witnesses of Jesus Christ.:tsktsk:

In the love of the truth,
Gloria

.
 
To God, every moment of creation is now.

Perhaps they were simply taken to the point in creation where they will be needed next.

There is no real need for them to actually ‘be’ anywhere in the intervening time.
They weren’t glorified like Jesus and Mary (or could they have been?) so they have to have gone somewhere, not flying around for thousands of years.🤷
 
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