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cjforJesus
Guest
IT is appointed for all men to die.
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Dave_Noonan
Guest
If God buried Moses in an unknown place, then why are Michael and the devil disputing about who gets the body? (Jude 9)
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AmbroseSJ
Guest
We know about where: Deuteronomy 34: 5-6
Also we don’t know WHEN that dispute took place.
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Ed_Silvia
Guest
Mary Agreda’s City of God Volume III starting on page 450. It mentions Enoch and Elijah four or five times. There is a free online PDF available.
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aragonjohn1
Guest
but, that not what actually happens since private revelation from holy God is for the love and
strengthening of the person and those who doubt belief?
God bless
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Ed_Silvia
Guest
Its approved and judged worthy of belief by the Church or I would not post it.
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aragonjohn1
Guest
i know that many of these are. (why else would God give so much ) di not one just say this?
my question is are all of them historically accurate; because, God according to many mystics "does not show (the blessed of His ) what really happens in truth. "God bless
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AmbroseSJ
Guest
It is judged worthy of HUMAN BELIEF only. IOW, in the sense that you would believe another person based on their credentials. It is by no means judged worthy of Divine Faith, nor is it considered a part of the Deposit of Faith (Sacred Scripture and Tradition.)
Furthermore, even in the mentioning, they are described as being “brought by angels from their abode” wherever that may have been. (The Bosom of Abraham)
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Ron_Conte
Guest
I believe that Enoch and Elijah were given some experience of heaven (like Paul’s experience in 2 Cor 12:2) and then they were taken directly to that future time described in Revelation 11:3ff.
Some say that Enoch and Elijah are in the paradise of Adam and Eve, awaiting that future role. But since God is all-powerful, He does not need to make them wait thousands of years to arrive at the future.
The Virgin Mary said to Saint Bridget: “Know, too, that there is no human body in Heaven but the glorious body of my Son and mine.” [Revelations of St. Bridget, p. 69.] So Enoch and Elijah cannot be in heaven in body and soul.
Some say that Enoch and Elijah are in the paradise of Adam and Eve, awaiting that future role. But since God is all-powerful, He does not need to make them wait thousands of years to arrive at the future.
The Virgin Mary said to Saint Bridget: “Know, too, that there is no human body in Heaven but the glorious body of my Son and mine.” [Revelations of St. Bridget, p. 69.] So Enoch and Elijah cannot be in heaven in body and soul.
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Ed_Silvia
Guest
If you look at the beginning of book one you will see that this work is widely acclaimed by human Popes & Bishops.
For anybody who would like to read:
This is the link to City of God 4kingdoms.com/mary-of-agreda.html
Just click on book 3 and then page forward with the help of the slide scroll on the right to page 450 Chapter 11 and read it to the end. It gives a lot of insight into the mystery of Enoch & Elijah.
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AmbroseSJ
Guest
Don’t get me wrong Ed. I know all about the approval of the Popes and bishops. I have the first English Translation edition in excellent condition. I have read through 2-1/2 of the volumes so far. I just meant that the Popes and bishops recommended these books as justified for pious reading. Some have also claimed that it helps make some difficult passages of the bible more understandable. However, because it is a private revelation, we can never use these books (or any private revelation) as Proof of anything.
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MarcoPG
Guest
In God’s power, no one has to die to be glorified. BUT, it is how God wanted it, after sin. And all have sinned.His body is not glorified,
Nevertheless, He could glorify someone by Christ merits without having him to die.
This I say because no one goes to heaven before Christ, and surely not in a mortal body like we have ours, which isn’t pure. So they should have been glorified, somehow, wherever they are. Does it make sense?
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1newcatholic
Guest
Hippolytus, if I’m not mistaken, is one of the first to go on record with this interpretation.
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Ed_Silvia
Guest
These quotes are from Mystical City of God Volume three Chapter XI
CHRIST OUR SAVIOR CELEBRATES THE SACRAMENTAL SUPPER, CONSECRATING HIS TRUE AND SACRED BODY AND BLOOD IN THE HOLY EUCHARIST ; HIS PRAYERS AND PETITIONS; THE COMMUNION OF HIS BLESSED MOTHER AND OTHER MYSTERIES OF THIS OCCASION.
forgive me for such a long post
Page 452
By the hands of these angels Enoch and Elias were brought to the Cenacle from their place of abode; for the
Lord wished that these Fathers of the natural and of the written Laws should be present at the establishment
of the law of the Gospel, and that they should participate in its mysteries.
Page 459
Then also the angels of her guard, all the angels of heaven, and among them likewise the souls of Enoch
and Elias, in their own name and in the name of the holy Patriarchs and Prophets of the old law, fell down
in adoration of their Lord in the holy Sacrament.
Page 462
In like manner saint John, the Fathers of the ancient Law, and the Apostles who were present, perceived these mysteries each in their degree.
Page 463
The effects of holy Communion in the body of Christ were altogether miraculous and divine; for during a short space of time the gifts of glory flowed over in his body just as on mount Tabor, though the effects of this transfiguration were manifest only to his blessed Mother, and partly also to saint John, Enoch and Elias. This was the last consolation He permitted his humanity to enjoy as to its inferior part during his earthly life, and from that moment until his Death He rejected all such alleviation.
Page 465 & 466
Then saint Peter, at the command of Christ the Lord, administered two of the particles of holy Communion to the two patriarchs, Enoch and Elias. This holy Communion so rejoiced these two holy men, that they were encouraged anew in their hope of the beatific vision, which for them was to be deferred for so many ages, and they were strengthened to live on in this hope until the end of the world. Having given most fervent and humble thanks to the Almighty for this blessing, they were brought back to their abiding place by the hands of the holy angels. The Lord desired to work this miracle in order to pledge Himself to include the ancient natural and written laws in the benefits of the Incarnation, Redemption and general resurrection ; since all these mysteries were contained in the most holy Eucharist. By thus communicating Himself to the two holy men, Enoch and Elias, who were still in their mortal 466 CITY OF GOD flesh, these blessings were extended over the human race such as it existed under the natural and the written laws, while all the succeeding generations were to be included in the new law of grace, the Apostles at the head. This was all well understood by Enoch and Elias, and, returning to the midst of their contemporaries, they gave thanks to their and our Redeemer for this mysterious blessing.
CHRIST OUR SAVIOR CELEBRATES THE SACRAMENTAL SUPPER, CONSECRATING HIS TRUE AND SACRED BODY AND BLOOD IN THE HOLY EUCHARIST ; HIS PRAYERS AND PETITIONS; THE COMMUNION OF HIS BLESSED MOTHER AND OTHER MYSTERIES OF THIS OCCASION.
forgive me for such a long post
Page 452
By the hands of these angels Enoch and Elias were brought to the Cenacle from their place of abode; for the
Lord wished that these Fathers of the natural and of the written Laws should be present at the establishment
of the law of the Gospel, and that they should participate in its mysteries.
Page 459
Then also the angels of her guard, all the angels of heaven, and among them likewise the souls of Enoch
and Elias, in their own name and in the name of the holy Patriarchs and Prophets of the old law, fell down
in adoration of their Lord in the holy Sacrament.
Page 462
In like manner saint John, the Fathers of the ancient Law, and the Apostles who were present, perceived these mysteries each in their degree.
Page 463
The effects of holy Communion in the body of Christ were altogether miraculous and divine; for during a short space of time the gifts of glory flowed over in his body just as on mount Tabor, though the effects of this transfiguration were manifest only to his blessed Mother, and partly also to saint John, Enoch and Elias. This was the last consolation He permitted his humanity to enjoy as to its inferior part during his earthly life, and from that moment until his Death He rejected all such alleviation.
Page 465 & 466
Then saint Peter, at the command of Christ the Lord, administered two of the particles of holy Communion to the two patriarchs, Enoch and Elias. This holy Communion so rejoiced these two holy men, that they were encouraged anew in their hope of the beatific vision, which for them was to be deferred for so many ages, and they were strengthened to live on in this hope until the end of the world. Having given most fervent and humble thanks to the Almighty for this blessing, they were brought back to their abiding place by the hands of the holy angels. The Lord desired to work this miracle in order to pledge Himself to include the ancient natural and written laws in the benefits of the Incarnation, Redemption and general resurrection ; since all these mysteries were contained in the most holy Eucharist. By thus communicating Himself to the two holy men, Enoch and Elias, who were still in their mortal 466 CITY OF GOD flesh, these blessings were extended over the human race such as it existed under the natural and the written laws, while all the succeeding generations were to be included in the new law of grace, the Apostles at the head. This was all well understood by Enoch and Elias, and, returning to the midst of their contemporaries, they gave thanks to their and our Redeemer for this mysterious blessing.
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MarcoPG
Guest
The only possibility I see then - if they are still alive in mortal bodies - is for them to be in Eden, as Augustine thinks. This would setle it.
But Eden is a creation, it was on Earth before sin. If it still exists, how to reconcile that Eden must still exist for Elijah and Enoch to dwell there, and that we have no clue of eden still Existing on Earth.
Also, the literalistic view of Eden would be a problem with all the symbolism involved. What would be the degree of symbolism and the degree of literalism?
But Eden is a creation, it was on Earth before sin. If it still exists, how to reconcile that Eden must still exist for Elijah and Enoch to dwell there, and that we have no clue of eden still Existing on Earth.
Also, the literalistic view of Eden would be a problem with all the symbolism involved. What would be the degree of symbolism and the degree of literalism?
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MarcoPG
Guest
What do we do of Jesus saying John the Baptist is the Elijah who had to come? 
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AmbroseSJ
Guest
Don’t forget the ArchAngel Gabriel who also said this to Zachariah in the Holy of Holies.What do we do of Jesus saying John the Baptist is the Elijah who had to come?
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MarcoPG
Guest
That’s on my side tooDon’t forget the ArchAngel Gabriel who also said this to Zachariah in the Holy of Holies.
So how to understand the prophecies? And if both Elijah and Enoch are in the Garden of Eden (which is a creation), where is it…?
I can’t see any reason they are still alive the same as we are. We believe they are still alive in their mortal bodies, because they didn’t taste death. I have no problem here, but by alive with mortal bodies,
I nevertheless think these bodies have to be trans-figured to be trans-lated.
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Isaiah45_9
Guest
Genesis 3:23 therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he was taken. 24 He drove out the man; and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim, and a sword flaming and turning to guard the way to the tree of life.That’s on my side too
So how to understand the prophecies? And if both Elijah and Enoch are in the Garden of Eden (which is a creation), where is it…?
I can’t see any reason they are still alive the same as we are. We believe they are still alive in their mortal bodies, because they didn’t taste death. I have no problem here, but by alive with mortal bodies,
I nevertheless think these bodies have to be trans-figured to be trans-lated.
The East of the Garden is guarded by a Cherubim with a Flaming Sword.
We need to strategize an entrance from the North, South and West
It all depends on how fast this Cherubim can cover all four corners
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MarcoPG
Guest
The Sword guards every corner…And about the other part of my post?Genesis 3:23 therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he was taken. 24 He drove out the man; and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim, and a sword flaming and turning to guard the way to the tree of life.
The East of the Garden is guarded by a Cherubim with a Flaming Sword.
We need to strategize an entrance from the North, South and West
It all depends on how fast this Cherubim can cover all four corners
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