Enoch and Elijah

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MarcoPG said:
The Sword guards every corner…And about the other part of my post? 😉
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There seems to be at leased 2 lines of thinking:
  1. These two extraordinary men are being keep by God secure and outside of time to return as His two witnesses at the end of time. They will fight against the forces of antiChrist and combine all Christian denominations and covert the nation Israel to Christ by their witness including their deaths and glorious resurrections. In this case, no, they probably do not yet have glorified bodies.
  2. Then there is fill in the blank because the sky is the limit as to what could be going on with them. In this case they could have glorified bodies by now :confused:
 
Ed_Silvia said:
There seems to be at leased 2 lines of thinking:
  1. These two extraordinary men are being keep by God secure and outside of time to return as His two witnesses at the end of time. They will fight against the forces of antiChrist and combine all Christian denominations and covert the nation Israel to Christ by their witness including their deaths and glorious resurrections. In this case, no, they probably do not yet have glorified bodies.
  2. Then there is fill in the blank because the sky is the limit as to what could be going on with them. In this case they could have glorified bodies by now :confused:
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It is important to remember, and restate the facts here.
  • None of this is related to Church doctrine
  • This is all dependent on individual Biblical exegesis
IOW, it is all idle speculation and conjecture. Anyone is free to think whatever he wants with regard to these passages. But it should also be borne in mind that it must conform to known Church doctrines such as:
  • No one entered through the gates of Heaven before Jesus died on the Cross
  • Everyone is subject to death. NO ONE is exempt, because of original sin.
  • No one (excepting only Jesus and the Virgin Mary) will get a glorified body until the Last Day, after the Last Judgement.
The above are things we know from Church doctrine on Original Sin, Salvation, and the Resurrection of the Dead.

Lastly, there are many more possible (and plausible) interpretations to these passages which don’t involve a zombie apocalypse, or the living undead.
 
AmbroseSJ said:
It is important to remember, and restate the facts here.
  • None of this is related to Church doctrine
  • This is all dependent on individual Biblical exegesis
IOW, it is all idle speculation and conjecture. Anyone is free to think whatever he wants with regard to these passages. But it should also be borne in mind that it must conform to known Church doctrines such as:
  • No one (excepting only Jesus and the Virgin Mary) will get a glorified body until the Last Day, after the Last Judgement.
Lastly, there are many more possible (and plausible) interpretations to these passages which don’t involve a zombie apocalypse, or the living undead.
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Shouldn’t their bodies be transformed in some way, so that they could live? They didn’t experience death, they are nowhere to be seen, they are not in Heaven. For them to be waiting, even bodily, in the limbo of the Fathers would be funny too, because of Christ’s Resurrection.
I look for a consistent answer knowing the ponts you made. And in Eden, well, Eden was a creation, where should it be now? So I don’t think they are there, if not just symbolically.

But again, the prophecies of a return sound a bit different in the words of Jesus: Elijah should already have returned in the person of Saint John (and died). Enoch, I don’t know.
 
In my opinion they went to the limbo of the Fathers, and to Heaven after Jesus, as we read in Matthew.
I look for a consistent answer - not a definitive one - knowing the points you made.
 
MarcoPG said:
Elijah should already have returned in the person of Saint John (and died). Enoch, I don’t know.
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Luke 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

Think of what you are agreeing to. St Gabriel is saying St John the Baptist will come in the spirit of Elias not that he will be Elias reincarnated as St John The Baptist.
 
Ed_Silvia said:
Luke 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

Think of what you are agreeing to. St Gabriel is saying St John the Baptist will come in the spirit of Elias not that he will be Elias reincarnated as St John The Baptist.
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See Matt 17: 11-13.

Jesus has pronounced that this prophecy HAS ALREADY BEEN FULFILLED, Just as the Archangel Gabriel prophesied.

I don’t know how much clearer it can be! 🤷
 
Ed_Silvia said:
Luke 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

Think of what you are agreeing to. St Gabriel is saying St John the Baptist will come in the spirit of Elias not that he will be Elias reincarnated as St John The Baptist.
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Reincarnated? You misunderstood me. I mean Jesus said John the Baptist is the Elijah who had to come. I would be a funny catholic believing in reincarnation 😃

By the way, if someone knoews books about this difficulty, I would be grateful.
 
Is it possible that Elijah and Enoch live in the clouds right outside the gates of heaven–maybe the Lord let them inside the Garden of Eden?
 
Jerry-Jet said:
Is it possible that Elijah and Enoch live in the clouds right outside the gates of heaven–maybe the Lord let them inside the Garden of Eden?
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If we think this is possible, we have to explain where the Garden is, since it is a creation, a physical one, not like Heaven.
 
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