Enough already...

[LSK]

Honestly, I am less worried about the “lack of charity” than I am about other issues involved here. Yeah, some people are mean, it’s not pleasant, but it is clear to everyone reading a thread who the meaney is, they basically make themselves look bad.

I don’t think that some of the Catholics who post on this forum think about how they are presenting the faith they hold so dear. Some of the tactics really come off as making the Church look bad. When they avoid answering a straight question and turn to maligning the seeker on an unrelated matter…all the other Catholics look and and nod knowingly…“they don’t have a good answer…”. How do I know? I get lots of PM’s from others. When they change the subject or ignore heartfelt posts…yeah…doesn’t look good for the faith.

It is OK to say…this is my opinion, understanding…or “I don’t know”, or just, “I never thought about that…I’ll have to mull it over.” gives me much more respect for the poster and their faith, than when they go off on my or another poster or play, let’s mudsling.

There does seem to be, at least on this site, a desperate need to have a totally waterproof Catholic anwer/refute for everything, and in lieu of that…it’s ok to do anything necessary to make the other guy look bad.

It comes across as fear. Fear that if a person can’t answer everything right away…either the person is a failed Catholic, or the Catholic church isn’t all it’s chalked up to be. Everything is seen as an attack. Every question is viewed with suspicion. I am repeatedly accused of only being here to try to convert Catholics away from the Church, because “why else would a non Catholic come here?”

Some people really do just like to discuss religion, and come to better understandings of how and why people believe as they do.

And frankly, I had more respect for Catholicism (I was raised Catholic) before I started hanging out at these forums. When I read threads that tear down, make fun and misrepresent other faiths…it makes me sick. I am not talking about threads that discuss belief issues of different faiths. There are ways to debate issues that are not demeaning, that is a fine thing. But there are so many threads that are just…wrong, mean, etc, that yes, I’ve lost a great deal of my respect for Catholicism.

This is mostly concerning the Non Catholic forums. There are other forums at CAF that I don’t see this type of thing taking place at all.

cheddar

I think there is a real problem whenever reading a post. One cannot ‘hear a tone’. I have read some posts by the Mormons that have seemed really mean and tacky, some by the Catholics that have seemed the same and some by so-called OSAS Christians that really are rather ignorant. What is difficult to discern is when someone is trying to make a joke…they have a tone in their head when they are typing and it comes off as mean and nasty or stupid…so while I am sorry the op thinks this is all the Catholics’ fault and will pray for her, what I want her to know is that I cannot ‘support’ another’s faith if that faith is based in error. And I have been charged, as a member of the Body of Christ, to defend and teach the Truth. The Catholic Church is Truth.

While I can love you and hope for the best, my prayers for all of our seperated brethren is that they be reconciled fully in the Body of Christ, which means accepting all the teachings of the Catholic Faith.

 

[LSK]

Honestly, I am less worried about the “lack of charity” than I am about other issues involved here. Yeah, some people are mean, it’s not pleasant, but it is clear to everyone reading a thread who the meaney is, they basically make themselves look bad.

I don’t think that some of the Catholics who post on this forum think about how they are presenting the faith they hold so dear. Some of the tactics really come off as making the Church look bad. When they avoid answering a straight question and turn to maligning the seeker on an unrelated matter…all the other Catholics look and and nod knowingly…“they don’t have a good answer…”. How do I know? I get lots of PM’s from others. When they change the subject or ignore heartfelt posts…yeah…doesn’t look good for the faith.

It is OK to say…this is my opinion, understanding…or “I don’t know”, or just, “I never thought about that…I’ll have to mull it over.” gives me much more respect for the poster and their faith, than when they go off on my or another poster or play, let’s mudsling.

There does seem to be, at least on this site, a desperate need to have a totally waterproof Catholic anwer/refute for everything, and in lieu of that…it’s ok to do anything necessary to make the other guy look bad.

It comes across as fear. Fear that if a person can’t answer everything right away…either the person is a failed Catholic, or the Catholic church isn’t all it’s chalked up to be. Everything is seen as an attack. Every question is viewed with suspicion. I am repeatedly accused of only being here to try to convert Catholics away from the Church, because “why else would a non Catholic come here?”

Some people really do just like to discuss religion, and come to better understandings of how and why people believe as they do.

And frankly, I had more respect for Catholicism (I was raised Catholic) before I started hanging out at these forums. When I read threads that tear down, make fun and misrepresent other faiths…it makes me sick. I am not talking about threads that discuss belief issues of different faiths. There are ways to debate issues that are not demeaning, that is a fine thing. But there are so many threads that are just…wrong, mean, etc, that yes, I’ve lost a great deal of my respect for Catholicism.

This is mostly concerning the Non Catholic forums. There are other forums at CAF that I don’t see this type of thing taking place at all.

cheddar

I think there is a real problem whenever reading a post. One cannot ‘hear a tone’. I have read some posts by the Mormons that have seemed really mean and tacky, some by the Catholics that have seemed the same and some by so-called OSAS Christians that really are rather ignorant. What is difficult to discern is when someone is trying to make a joke…they have a tone in their head when they are typing and it comes off as mean and nasty or stupid…so while I am sorry the op thinks this is all the Catholics’ fault and will pray for her, what I want her to know is that I cannot ‘support’ another’s faith if that faith is based in error. And I have been charged, as a member of the Body of Christ, to defend and teach the Truth. The Catholic Church is Truth.

While I can love you and hope for the best, my prayers for all of our seperated brethren is that they be reconciled fully in the Body of Christ, which means accepting all the teachings of the Catholic Faith.

 

[LSK]

Honestly, I am less worried about the “lack of charity” than I am about other issues involved here. Yeah, some people are mean, it’s not pleasant, but it is clear to everyone reading a thread who the meaney is, they basically make themselves look bad.

I don’t think that some of the Catholics who post on this forum think about how they are presenting the faith they hold so dear. Some of the tactics really come off as making the Church look bad. When they avoid answering a straight question and turn to maligning the seeker on an unrelated matter…all the other Catholics look and and nod knowingly…“they don’t have a good answer…”. How do I know? I get lots of PM’s from others. When they change the subject or ignore heartfelt posts…yeah…doesn’t look good for the faith.

It is OK to say…this is my opinion, understanding…or “I don’t know”, or just, “I never thought about that…I’ll have to mull it over.” gives me much more respect for the poster and their faith, than when they go off on my or another poster or play, let’s mudsling.

There does seem to be, at least on this site, a desperate need to have a totally waterproof Catholic anwer/refute for everything, and in lieu of that…it’s ok to do anything necessary to make the other guy look bad.

It comes across as fear. Fear that if a person can’t answer everything right away…either the person is a failed Catholic, or the Catholic church isn’t all it’s chalked up to be. Everything is seen as an attack. Every question is viewed with suspicion. I am repeatedly accused of only being here to try to convert Catholics away from the Church, because “why else would a non Catholic come here?”

Some people really do just like to discuss religion, and come to better understandings of how and why people believe as they do.

And frankly, I had more respect for Catholicism (I was raised Catholic) before I started hanging out at these forums. When I read threads that tear down, make fun and misrepresent other faiths…it makes me sick. I am not talking about threads that discuss belief issues of different faiths. There are ways to debate issues that are not demeaning, that is a fine thing. But there are so many threads that are just…wrong, mean, etc, that yes, I’ve lost a great deal of my respect for Catholicism.

This is mostly concerning the Non Catholic forums. There are other forums at CAF that I don’t see this type of thing taking place at all.

cheddar

I think there is a real problem whenever reading a post. One cannot ‘hear a tone’. I have read some posts by the Mormons that have seemed really mean and tacky, some by the Catholics that have seemed the same and some by so-called OSAS Christians that really are rather ignorant. What is difficult to discern is when someone is trying to make a joke…they have a tone in their head when they are typing and it comes off as mean and nasty or stupid…so while I am sorry the op thinks this is all the Catholics’ fault and will pray for her, what I want her to know is that I cannot ‘support’ another’s faith if that faith is based in error. And I have been charged, as a member of the Body of Christ, to defend and teach the Truth. The Catholic Church is Truth.

While I can love you and hope for the best, my prayers for all of our seperated brethren is that they be reconciled fully in the Body of Christ, which means accepting all the teachings of the Catholic Faith.

 

[Verita]

So sad that so many here believe that one cannot support those of another faith without standing firm in their own. I told my daughter today that the nicest people at the Catholic forums are the Mormons…go figure…

I am not naive, stupid, full of airs or hoodwinked. THe lack of tolerance among the majority of Catholics here - who say they are Christian - is truely sad.

I will not be participating (much to the relief of more than a couple of you I am sure ) in these forums anymore. I thought it would include intelligent discussion - not slurs and accusations and arguments based on assumptions not fact.

Anne

This is the internet. What do you expect? The unfortunate fact of the matter is that while the internet can bring out good in people, it more often brings out the worst in people. There are no consequences on the internet. It’s just the nature of the beast.

Personally, I have seen so many amazingly charitable and respectful Catholics on this forum and I’ve been truly impressed by them. I don’t think threads like this are justified.

 

[rmcmullan]

Here’s a rant! (Luke 11:37-54)

37 ¶ And as he spake, a certain Pharisee besought him to dine with him: and he went in, and sat down to meat.
38 And when the Pharisee saw it, he marvelled that he had not first washed before dinner.
39 And the Lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness.
40 Ye fools, did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also?
41 But rather give alms of such things as ye have; and, behold, all things are clean unto you.
42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
43 Woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye love the uppermost seats in the synagogues, and greetings in the markets.
44 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them.
45 ¶ Then answered one of the lawyers, and said unto him, Master, thus saying thou reproachest us also.
46 And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.
47 Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your fathers killed them.
48 Truly ye bear witness that ye allow the deeds of your fathers: for they indeed killed them, and ye build their sepulchres.
49 Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute:
50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;
51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.
52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.
53 And as he said these things unto them, the scribes and the Pharisees began to urge him vehemently, and to provoke him to speak of many things:
54 Laying wait for him, and seeking to catch something out of his mouth, that they might accuse him.

What do you make of that?

 

[rmcmullan]

This is actually a better one (Matt 22:23-33)

23 ¶ The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him,
24 Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
25 Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:
26 Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.
27 And last of all the woman died also.
28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
33 And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.

I like this one better, he quoted scripture and was generally amazing. Maybe he liked the Sadducees better than the Pharisees.

 

[tundramom]

What is your point of quoting these scriptures?

in Christ
Steph

P.S. did you notice vs 28,29,and 30 of Matthew 22? What do you, as a Mormon, make of that? Is this one of those “mistranslations” that you claim?

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

A “liberal” is someone a “conservative” doesn’t like. Interesting to note that Jesus was neither - but was labeled a heretic and radical by the religious.

“Liberal” and “conservative” need to die, anyway. They’re intended to be adjectives, not nouns.

**This is where the “Hitler test” is so useful - IOW, “Would what that person says meet with H.'s approval ?” You’d be surprised how often it would: For instance, he was no lover of tolerance either - so merely to be (say) against tolerance, doesn’t make one a Christian: it’s entirely compatible with some very unpleasant & murderous ideologies. **​

**One is Christian by being Christian - but not by being intolerant or having some similar social attitude: because that is compatible with things that are not by any standard Christ-like. Social attitudes of this or that kind are no evidence at all of being Christian. ## **

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Part of the reason that these forums have worn away at my respect for Catholicism IS the way that people conduct themselves. Yes. I guess it’s that old “by their fruits…” thing, if this is what your faith causes you, empowers you and instructs you to do…then I do start to think less of the faith. And yes, there are lots of people here who say it is because of their faith that they post as they do.

Also, I have learned more of the teachings of the Catholic church here, and some of the apologetics and theology have also erroded my respect for the Church.

As far as my second statement which you quoted. The fact that people of other faiths behave badly on their faith forums, is not an excuse for Catholics to justify bad behavior on their own forum. That is what I meant.

I was raised Catholic, and was taught that we weren’t supposed to be basing our level of behavior on those around us, but on a higher, truer standard. And do you want to know why? Because…we were to represent God’s truth in the world, We might be the only catechism the other person ever sees, the only Gospel the other person ever hears.

If I have been behaving badly here, and justifying it by saying that someone else is behaving worse…then I guess I am a hypocrite. I honestly hope I have not done that. I come to discussion forums to learn and share, not to hurt and disrupt discussion.

cheddar

 

[WenckebachCath]

I third your second. I have read many unpleasant remarks made here on these forums that reflect very poorly on our faith, and on this site. If I were a non-Catholic I would not be particularly attracted to the Catholic faith based on what I read here. I would be especially discouraged by the way Catholics treat ONE ANOTHER! It’s scandalous!

 

[rmcmullan]

What is your point of quoting these scriptures?

Frankly, I’m not sure what to make of them. Maybe those posts who are saying we are being too tolerant are right. Or maybe He had just given up on those people.

I still think you should show charity and respect for what other people believe otherwise it’s hard to show it for that person. Besides debating doctrines and ideas, we are also debating other people and even when people are wrong, they should be corrected in a charitable manner and with concern. Also, I hate to press my points too hard because, well, I am sometimes just wrong and when I am, I rarely am able to see it coming.

These scriptures don’t really reflect my thinking in the above paragraph though. Maybe the second scripture but definitely not the first.

 

[FromTheCrossroa]

It is “tolerance” that has pulled down America.

Tolerance has NOT pulled America down. Intolerance disguised as tolerance has. What I mean is no longer do we tolerate a nativity on public grounds out of respect for our Christian heritage. We no longer tolerate people using the “n” word except if you are of a certain color (anything but white) or a rap artist. We no longer tolerate common sense or personal responsibility. What we do tolerate are recycled politicians, terrorism, governmental intrusions of our rights, and burdensome taxation under the guise of compassion.

Barry Goldwaters said you can NOT legislate benevolence or morality when he opposed the civil rights act of 1964. It wasn’t that he believed in discrimination. Only that no law can change who a person is at their core. His stand on principle (in spite of the good that came of the Civil Rights Act) cost him a shot at president.

I wish I had the answer how to get more common, honest, principled folks in government. At this point, it may be a lost cause. You’d first have to convince the incumbents to open the process up to more people. I’ve taken the approach to pray for our country, and the current leaders while pleading for something better to come along.

 

[E.E.N.S]

twiggymoo:

It is “tolerance” that has pulled down America.

I’d say it is a combination of a number of things - all linked:

1. “tolerance” = a distorted and incorrect view of tolerance.
2. indifferentism
3. immorality on a wide scale
4. general rejection of authority (and linked with this is the protestant mentality that has seeped into just about everything - it reminds me of a quote by St. John of the Cross (I think) that goes something like, “the greatest travesty known to mankind is that everyone believes that they are just going to make it [to heaven]….”)

 

[jonfan]

I’d say it’s all about intent of heart. If someone gets mad and personally insults another that person should apologize if his hearts intent in a post was out of anger. Catholics can get overly passionate too. You have to realize as well that Anti-Catholicism is a big business in some countries and those who come here have a bad intent in there heart. Other than that is someone is personally attacking you report the post.

 

[rmcmullan]

Aw, did nobody want to comment on those two scriptures I posted?

The first one was pretty harsh, but in it, Jesus condemned the Pharisees and lawyers not for what they taught but what they did. In the second one, He was merely correcting a teaching. Sure, he told them they were flat out wrong but He did not insult them or anyone associated with the Saduccees or their founder. He didn’t belittle them in anyway. He just taught and corrected. The Good Shepherd.