I still believe that Guyonthestreet is a genuine seeker and I’m therefore prepared to continue to respond to his questions and comments with truthfulness and sincerity. I urge you and kalt to do the same. There is nothing to be lost and everything to be gained.
I agree! He is only fooling himself if he is not genuinely seeking the truth.I still believe that Guyonthestreet is a genuine seeker and I’m therefore prepared to continue to respond to his questions and comments with truthfulness and sincerity. I urge you and kalt to do the same. There is nothing to be lost and everything to be gained.
Ecumenically,
Mick
Thank you for your advice, Mick.I still believe that Guyonthestreet is a genuine seeker and I’m therefore prepared to continue to respond to his questions and comments with truthfulness and sincerity. I urge you and kalt to do the same. There is nothing to be lost and everything to be gained.
Ecumenically,
Mick
Someone once told me that all it takes to “be catholic” is to believe that Christ exists within the Church He founded, not what we perceive the Church to be. (our personal perception of correct or incorrect). Whether we believe the Church to be one single entity or many makes no difference. The Church *is *what it is. Relying on one’s personal perception is what leads us away from Christ rather than toward Him. In other words, if you believe that there was once One Holy and Apostolic Church and that the Church once held the Truth, then you cannot believe otherwise now. God does not make mistakes.
I believe I will need to be baptised into the christian community in order to be part of God’s family on earth.
I believe Christ instituted the Eucharist to aid us on our way to eternal life, and He is really present in the bread and wine.
I believe Mary is the Mother of God.
**I do not believe the catholic church as it exists today is the church established by Christ on earth. **
**I do believe Christ wanted one church, but what that church is I do not know. Right now, I do not believe it can be the catholic church as claimed. **
If the catholic church does contain the fullness of truth, that truth is simpler that the church pretends. That truth probably lies somewhere close to the way the early church fathers and the desert fathers and the early communities lived their lives and practiced their faith.
Thats as far as Ive got so far
The CC has remained true to the faith of our fathers however to expect a Church (the religious and laity) to remain unaffected by society is supremely naive. The Church does not live in a vacuum, therefore you will find a people affected by the mores/culture of their environment. The Church is attempting to bring about a culture of life based on God’s principles, it’s just a tad hard to do it because of the many outside forces trying to destroy those principles.
I believe I will need to be baptised into the christian community in order to be part of God’s family on earth.
I believe Christ instituted the Eucharist to aid us on our way to eternal life, and He is really present in the bread and wine.
I believe Mary is the Mother of God.
I do not believe the catholic church as it exists today is the church established by Christ on earth.
I do believe Christ wanted one church, but what that church is I do not know. Right now, I do not believe it can be the catholic church as claimed.
If the catholic church does contain the fullness of truth, that truth is simpler that the church pretends. That truth probably lies somewhere close to the way the early church fathers and the desert fathers and the early communities lived their lives and practiced their faith.
Thats as far as Ive got so far
I appreciate your comment, Reuben. I don’t think what kalt is pointing out should be disregarded because it makes sense. But what I’m suggesting is that by giving everybody the benefit of the doubt nothing can be lost. So what if there exists among us the odd timewaster? If we treat everybody the same we can’t go wrong. And, in particular, let’s give Guyonthesteet the benefit of the doubt.SSTeacher;5553709:
Thank you for your advice, Mick.I still believe that Guyonthestreet is a genuine seeker and I’m therefore prepared to continue to respond to his questions and comments with truthfulness and sincerity. I urge you and kalt to do the same. There is nothing to be lost and everything to be gained.
Ecumenically,
Mick
Like I said, I did not think about it until I saw kalt’s observation. I look into GOTS previous posts and the thread "Catholics their worst enemy " came to mind. In the light of what kalt said, the said thread can be a subtle way of running down Catholics. There is no problem if a Catholic start that kind of thread because it is good for self examination but when others did it, unless their intention is very pure, it can never be any good about it.
For all you know, GOTS is already one of yours, Mick or of other Protestant denomination.
Anyway, I agree with you that in responding with answer and truth we have got nothing to lose but everything to gain.
On the other hand, it would be nice that Christians who participate in this forum behave as Christians. Bottom line is honesty. I do not believe that we can convert anybody from the internet. Those who are here most probably already are quite entrenched in their own belief respectively and if ever they make their mind surely the internet is the last place where it can happen. They would go to real people and real institutions.
In the internet you can be anybody ranging from a dirty old man to perhaps a little girl. When I read your post or when you read mine, I do not know whether you are snickering there or not. I can’t see your face. But of course from what you write you sound like a good Christian. What I am trying to say, internet for most people, is just a game. How many of us who participate here really pray? I can say that my prayer life is quite affected since I am participating here. Even if I pray, its quality somehow would be affected by the time one spends here.
But at least as Christians, we can make internet different. At least the real we as believers make the difference by behaving as how followers of Jesus should be.
God bless you.
He heh. But you make your point there. Thanks Mick. Your post more often than not brings forth encouragement and good words.I appreciate your comment, Reuben. I don’t think what kalt is pointing out should be disregarded because it makes sense. But what I’m suggesting is that by giving everybody the benefit of the doubt nothing can be lost. So what if there exists among us the odd timewaster? If we treat everybody the same we can’t go wrong. And, in particular, let’s give Guyonthesteet the benefit of the doubt.
And I trust you’ll forgive me for bringing this up but I do think you might give some thought as to how you think Catholics might better project themselves even if this is the Internet. What kind of Internet interaction might we do well to question?
Seeker:
Hey, I’m a seeker. Don’t know much about history, don’t know much biology, don’t know much about a science book, don’t know much about the French I took, and I sure don’t know anything about the Catholic Church. So here’s my first question: Y’all think you’re saved by works, right?
Reuben J:
NOT! Catholics DON’T believe in salvation by works. I’m really tired of having to keep repeating this. What’s with you people? Why don’t you listen? You’ve just shown yourself to be hostile to the One True Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, my friend, and I find your totally anti–Catholic attitude insulting and deplorable and uncool even by Internet standards. You need to humble yourself and accept the truth instead of supporting all that 33,000+ denominational nonsense.
Seeker:
Wow! Thanks for taking the time to explain it so clearly and so articulately. You know, I’ve been struggling with the truth claims of Catholicism for a long time but now, thanks to your persuasive eloquence, I believe I’m ready to take a nonrational existential leap of faith and I’ll be signing up for RCIA at my local church within the next fifteen seconds, Amen.
Reuben J:
Yep, we CAF amateur apologists sure are on the cutting edge.
Sorry about taking your name in vain but perhaps you can begin to see my perspective.
Cordially,
Mick
I concur that winning souls is the Lord’s business. And I think we can help in that process by presenting the truth, as we perceive it to be, which will allow for comparison and contrast. We should do this with gentleness and respect because it is the right thing to do. We should, in fact, sow seeds. But neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything. Only God can make things grow.
Did you have direct involvement with 9/11 then?
The Protestant movement is a reaction to the abuses within the Catholic Church. The very existence of Protestantism is one of the reasons I decided to become Orthodox. The existence of the Orthodox Church is a reality, too.
I’m not sure that I agree. I think they pretty much get the main points. It’s their conclusions that you perhaps don’t like, which is understandable. Still, you might be right. What distorted understandings have you noted in particular that non–Catholics seem to have imbibed?
If you start off with the idea that certain groups are “problematic” it will become apparent in your posts, sooner or later. You can’t possibly hope to present your faith clearly and circumspectly if you have an inbuilt resentment toward the poster you are trying to influence, can you?
Well, at least we’re past killing each other over differences in doctrine. Errr, we are, aren’t we?
Misinformation is definiitely a problem but if you have the correct information it’s surely important that it’s presented in a manner that will cause people to pause and take note of what you’re explaining. Declaring with certainty that people who don’t believe as you do are on their way to hell because of their wayward beliefs, for example, isn’t really very constructive.
God bless you, too, Reuben.God bless you.
Amen.
None directly other than the shock and hurt that such atrocity in the highest degree could be done in the name of a religion. The divide is made more significant because of theological differences. It take great maturity and patience to discuss with them and not to experience breakdown in the discussion at some points. But I rather not discuss this subject here.
Which is a wrong way to go about it.
Many - the Pope, infallibilty, real presence, priesthood, veneration of the saints, veneration of Mary, Sacraments, purgatory, the Bible and prayers. These are major ones and there are more minor ones.
I did not mean it in that sense. They are problematic because of their approach, hostility and the misrepresentation. You can really be calm in such situation.
How silly. What tragedy.Well, at least we’re past killing each other over differences in doctrine. Errr, we are, aren’t we?
Agreed. Sometimes things are better unsaid. Don’t you think?
God bless you, too, Reuben.
Cordially,
Mick
Well if silence was good enough for Elijah (for it was in this silence that he heard God’s voice) it’s good enough for us. God bless.Update 081809
Touring Ireland on vacation - awesome country - the friendliness of the people is not a myth
Went to a catholic mass on Sunday and then to a monastery to meet with a monk.
Im leaving out tons of details as this post would be far too long, but after going through all the issues I have with my search for the truth, the monk asked me to walk to a field nearby with him, and sit and watch the cows.
There had just been a heavy shower of rain, followed by bright sunshine, and the scene was something close to paradise.
The hills, the birds singing, the sunshine, the fields bursting with life, the smell of everything being fresh and new after the rains, the almost total silence.
The monk had listened to me earlier, and answered all my questions with very specific information, not vaguaries, but now he asked that we just sit in silence.
So we sat and I took in all that was in front of me.
For almost an hour,
And then walked back to the little chapel for vespers.
The sense of peace, and the holiness of the monks was a privilage to experience.
They have committed their lives in totality to prayer and sacrifice for the good of all mankind.
The monk I spoke to was obviously a very learned man, a well studied man, a man of great intelligence. But he posessed something far more important - wisdom.
I learned more in that one hour of total silence that I have in years of asking questions and listening to various answers from numerous sources.
Devotion to Mary in Ireland is extrodinary.
Every coastal town Ive been through has a statue of Mary Star of the sea on the side of the road or up on a wall somewhere - that was a new one on me - never heard of that title before.
Even the language reflects a devotion to Mary - the translation of greeting someone in gaelic goes like: God be with you - God and Mary be with you
I agree too
Thank you for sharing your beautiful experience with us - I can just picture the peaceful scene that has touched your soul.Update 081809
Touring Ireland on vacation - awesome country - the friendliness of the people is not a myth
Went to a catholic mass on Sunday and then to a monastery to meet with a monk.
Im leaving out tons of details as this post would be far too long, but after going through all the issues I have with my search for the truth, the monk asked me to walk to a field nearby with him, and sit and watch the cows.
There had just been a heavy shower of rain, followed by bright sunshine, and the scene was something close to paradise.
The hills, the birds singing, the sunshine, the fields bursting with life, the smell of everything being fresh and new after the rains, the almost total silence.
The monk had listened to me earlier, and answered all my questions with very specific information, not vaguaries, but now he asked that we just sit in silence.
So we sat and I took in all that was in front of me.
For almost an hour,
And then walked back to the little chapel for vespers.
The sense of peace, and the holiness of the monks was a privilage to experience.
They have committed their lives in totality to prayer and sacrifice for the good of all mankind.
The monk I spoke to was obviously a very learned man, a well studied man, a man of great intelligence. But he posessed something far more important - wisdom.
I learned more in that one hour of total silence that I have in years of asking questions and listening to various answers from numerous sources.
Devotion to Mary in Ireland is extrodinary.
Every coastal town Ive been through has a statue of Mary Star of the sea on the side of the road or up on a wall somewhere - that was a new one on me - never heard of that title before.
Even the language reflects a devotion to Mary - the translation of greeting someone in gaelic goes like: God be with you - God and Mary be with you
I wish I could paint the picture better. My poor words dont do it justice.