EPA to ease back emissions standards

  • Thread starter Thread starter ATraveller
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
CD45 said:
No, actually, I was talking about Catholic Social Teaching and one of the six elements being Care of God’s Creation. You passed that off as people having different opinions, which is fine. The next time someone makes the anti-abortion argument as being part of Church teaching, I can just use your response that that is a different “opinion”.
Click to expand...
You think driving an Escalade is a sin? And not a venal sin, but equivalent to murder?
CD45 said:
And the person who really thinks that Trump voters are stupid (by the way, I don’t) is Trump himself by the way he manipulates his base. Come on, a rich guy from NYC who gave money to Clinton and other democrats, who got deferred from the draft several times, etc., etc., I really can’t see him shopping at Walmart and listening to CW.
Click to expand...
You imagine that Trump supporters do seem him as one of their PBR swilling, Walmart kin, but you don’t think them stupid? How odd. I can’t speak for other Trump voters, but what I liked about him is that he’s the first politician since Reagan who doesn’t hold average, non college educated Americans in contempt. Trump is a rich guy from Queens, who has previously donated to Democrat pols. But you know what, Democrats used to be the party of those working class, union guys. Trump, being a builder, may not hang out in working class dives, but he knows those guys. He’s worked with them. He knows nothing gets done without those guys. The Democrats are still the party of a union, but it’s AFSCME, which is made up of the people that dump red tape and regulations on these working guys and makes it better for their bosses to move their factories down to Mexico. Trump said he’d change that, and he is which is why they’ll continue to support him.
 
stinkcat_14 said:
Do you think that there are absolutely no moral issues involved in what vehicle someone chooses to drive?
Click to expand...
If you need to haul things or people, you need a vehicle that is up to the task. That’s likely to be a truck, suburban, or mini-van, none of which are great in mpg.

If you don’t haul things very often, you likely have a second vehicle with better MPG.

How is this morally wrong?
 
What moral issues do you see in someone’s choice of vehicle?
 
Theo520 said:
If you need to haul things or people, you need a vehicle that is up to the task. That’s likely to be a truck, suburban, or mini-van, none of which are great in mpg.

If you don’t haul things very often, you likely have a second vehicle with better MPG.

How is this morally wrong?
Click to expand...
I never said it necessarily was morally wrong.
 
Road-Worrier said:
What moral issues do you see in someone’s choice of vehicle?
Click to expand...
The moral issues in the purchase of a vehicle include:
  1. Stewardship of God’s resources
  2. Motivations for purchasing the vehicle
  3. Who else might be affected by the purchase
 
stinkcat_14 said:
I never said it necessarily was morally wrong.
Click to expand...
I do agree some people are wasteful with what they’ve been given. While not ideal, it does help the economy run as people spend their extra resources, maybe just remodel their kitchen that was perfectly functional, etc etc.
 
CD45 said:
I doubt Mr. Trump has worked one day of manuel labor in his life. As a “builder”, he gained quite a reputation for stiffing the contractors. Just like Bill and Hillary, he uses people. I just feel sorry for the mis-led working guy and gal who voted for Trump. Let’s see what those Tariff’s do for the extra few bucks Trump put in their pay checks as part of his tax cut for the rich.
Click to expand...
Your hate for the guy is erupting again (passionate dislike) with your off topic insults.
 
Personally, I’m less troubled by the hatred of Trump than I am the contempt for his supporters, even his Catholic ones.
 
CD45 said:
Check out the Pope’s Encyclical, “Laudato Si”. About 20 percent of the World’s population consumes 80 percent of the World’s resources. Drive what you want to for a car, that’s what we all do. But you might want to consider the effect of our consumer appetites on the poor of the world—especially children.
Click to expand...
While you cite facts, you don’t actually show harm. Our consumption drives development around the world.
 
So didn’t Obama’s EPA regs increase the mpg from 35 to 55 mpg?

Frankly that was a ridiculous requirement to accomplish in a decade, the only way to achieve it would be for much of the market to go to electric vehicles. Such cars are still mostly a novelty and not ready for prime time.

It was a regulation designed to fail, but good virtue signalling on Climate Change.
 
Road-Worrier said:
In what way is buying an SUV, for example, a sinful use of God’s resources?
Click to expand...
It is not necessarily a sin, although it could be a sin. For example, if I have no need for an SUV, but I buy one anyway, then such a purchase would not be virtuous. If I buy an SUV that comes with a large loan that forces me to work extra and neglect my family, then that would not be virtuous.
Road-Worrier said:
So motivations beyond the strictly utilitarian are sinful when purchasing a car?
Click to expand...
You will have to define what you mean by utilitarian. Obviously we buy things because they give us utility. If we buy something that does not give us utility then that is foolish.
Road-Worrier said:
How is anyone beyond me and my immediate family effected by my choice of vehicle?
Click to expand...
Cars do generate air pollution and this is not an insignificant problem. More cars also create more congestion which also affects others.
 
CD45 said:
Oh, it’s all in there. Along with all the humanity of it.
Click to expand...
If you can’t summarize an argument, then I must assume it isn’t there.
You are doing another lame deflection.
 
You’ve gotta do better than using the phrase “climate change” as your armor, like using it means you’ve actually proven something factual.

If third world countries are destroying their farmland, the fix is really straight forward. It’s better governance and better land management practices. Techniques that are well proven and well documented. Quite your job and train them to be better stewards of their land, or just donate to one of the many NGOs already working in the area.

Study some economics, specialization has moved us well past the ability to produce affordable clothing in cottage industries.

The only way to combat excessive consumerism is a deeper spiritual life, so you can put your efforts in that direction as well. Just lamenting consumerism doesn’t change anything.

If you can’t condense salient points from Laudato Si to support your arguments, then you probably shouldn’t invoke it in your arguments. It’s a shallow tactic.
 
@CD45,
None of the points in your link remotely touched on whether the Obama MPG regulations were viable or achievable goals.

I already concurred that an increased spiritual focus is the antidote to rampant consumerism.
 
Of course it does.

Our consumerism is why their standard of living is increasing, it’s why many people who scraped out an existence on a farm are educated and gainfully employed.

The document you referenced is much more about bad governance hurting the poor than the production and selling of goods across national boundaries
 
Somebody was paid to produce the furniture in your house, the clothes on your back, the cutlery and pots and pans used in your kitchen, even the computer you are using to post in this forum. These consumer items weren’t created by magic.
 
It’s clear you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to foreign produced goods, you are reciting talking points you were fed.

The employees working in those foreign export factories are earning a living wage for their economies. I guess that may make them a 20% consumer of other goods and services in their local economy, but that helps increase their GDP and the overall standard of living in their country.

Since it appears you’ve never visited a factory in the developing world, stop spouting nonsense about how they work in the economy.

FYI, these countries also have labor laws and unions. The unions especially target export companies for compliance since they have the best funding and resources to meet standards.

If you honestly think child labor is a problem in export manufacturing (it’s not) then you should be advocating for enforcement of their labor laws, not pulling good paying work out of the country.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top