Episcopalians and Homosexuality

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I am having trouble trying to convince an Episcopalian that practicing homosexuality is against the Lord’s will. I quoted scripture, catechism, ECFs, all to no avail. He stated that Jesus didn’t say anything about it (I tried the Holy Trinity approach as well as St. Paul) and if it was that important He would have said something. I even tried to bring up what is going on in his church, all the splits, also to no avail…

I just don’t understand how any Christian can think that practicing homosexuality is not a sin. I don’t get it.:o
 
Maybe he believes that all people should b e able to find someone they love and that they should be able to express their love for someone in a sexaul way, like anyone else. And to prohibit someone who can only find such love in a homosexual relationship from expressing their love through physical intimacy is a greater preversion than engaging in the homosexual act.
 
Valke2 said:
Maybe he believes that all people should b e able to find someone they love and that they should be able to express their love for someone in a sexaul way, like anyone else. And to prohibit someone who can only find such love in a homosexual relationship from expressing their love through physical intimacy is a greater preversion than engaging in the homosexual act.
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That answer is only possible if he does not subscribe to authorities like the Bible which condemned that practice. He cant use the Scriptures and say it’s ok. Further that “act” is anything but “love”, on the contrary it is destructive.
 
jay29 said:
I just don’t understand how any Christian can think that practicing homosexuality is not a sin. I don’t get it.:o
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It is called Protestantism and Sola Scriptura. They opened pandora’s box and now it cant be shut and now much of Protestantism is dissolving away before our very eyes. While I admit there are many conservative Protestants out there who detest such things, the fact is their system has no way of stopping it, all those radicals need is enough people with “itching ears” (2 Tim 4:3) and the “pastors” who will say what they want to hear and they cannot be stopped because there is no central authority.
 
Catholic_Dude said:
That answer is only possible if he does not subscribe to authorities like the Bible which condemned that practice. He cant use the Scriptures and say it’s ok. Further that “act” is anything but “love”, on the contrary it is destructive.
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Well, I could say that the entire concept of Christianity is only possible if one does not subscribe to authorities like the Bible, which requires and prohibits many things that are not part of Christianity. And the “act” is a physical expression of love (or can be) between two people. It can be argued that it is far less destructive than the act of condeming someone for doing it.
 
Valke2 said:
And the “act” is a physical expression of love (or can be) between two people. It can be argued that it is far less destructive than the act of condeming someone for doing it.
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So ignoring sin is better than pointing it out? Is that what the Church teaches us? Does this ignore sin apply only to homosexual behavior or to ALL sin? Can love really be expressed through sin?
 
jay29 said:
I am having trouble trying to convince an Episcopalian that practicing homosexuality is against the Lord’s will. I quoted scripture, catechism, ECFs, all to no avail. He stated that Jesus didn’t say anything about it (I tried the Holy Trinity approach as well as St. Paul) and if it was that important He would have said something. I even tried to bring up what is going on in his church, all the splits, also to no avail…

I just don’t understand how any Christian can think that practicing homosexuality is not a sin. I don’t get it.:o
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Ask him where Jesus said anything about incest or pediophilia.
 
Valke2 said:
Given that Jesus’ lineage has a bit of incest in his family tree, I’m not surprised that he remained silent on the issue.
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Are you next going to accuse him being a pediophile since he remained silent on that issue?? The lenghts people go to try and justify sexualtdeviancy is simply amazaing-they even go to the extent of mocking Our Lord and Savior.
 
estesbob said:
Are you next going to accuse him being a pediophile since he remained silent on that issue?? The lenghts people go to try and justify sexualtdeviancy is simply amazaing-they even go to the extent of mocking Our Lord and Savior.
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I’m shocked at the extent people will go to condem others for having sex. But I was simply referring to the fact that Jesus’ lineage includes the offspring of Lot and his daughters.
 
jay29 said:
I am having trouble trying to convince an Episcopalian that practicing homosexuality is against the Lord’s will. I quoted scripture, catechism, ECFs, all to no avail. He stated that Jesus didn’t say anything about it (I tried the Holy Trinity approach as well as St. Paul) and if it was that important He would have said something. I even tried to bring up what is going on in his church, all the splits, also to no avail…

I just don’t understand how any Christian can think that practicing homosexuality is not a sin. I don’t get it.:o
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It’s not the first time when protestants explain the Scripture in a wrong way. At the beginning of the reformation it was the leadership of the pope or the issue of the Eucharist. During recent years - priesthood of women or “gay marriages”.
The problem is they believe in their own infallibility, “every protestant with a Bible is a pope”.
They started going the wrong direction, they can’t stop now and they have to follow “this world”, you’ll be surprised by their next “inventions”.
 
Given that Jesus’ lineage has a bit of incest in his family tree, I’m not surprised that he remained silent on the issue.

Now Valke2, that really WAS a cheap shot.
As a descendant of Abraham, there is incest in YOUR lineage too, good sir. Just one example: Sarah was Abram’s half-sister,
so there is a touch of incest in the lineage of all our Jewish friends.

Of course, if we take Genesis literally, the whole human race has a bit of incest in it’s lineage. After all, where did Cain get his wife if not from other un-named daughters of Adam and Eve ?? And where did Seth get his wife? And so on… oy.

God bless,
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
 
**I’m shocked at the extent people will go to condem others for having sex. **

Are you then shocked by Moses and the Torah,
which condemns not only homosexual acts,
but all sorts of sexual behavior outside of a male-female marriage, as acts worthy of death??

Or are you one of those modernized Jews who regard the Bible as a quaint curiosity rather than a binding moral code?

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
 
Jaypeeto4 said:
Given that Jesus’ lineage has a bit of incest in his family tree, I’m not surprised that he remained silent on the issue.

Now Valke2, that really WAS a cheap shot.
As a descendant of Abraham, there is incest in YOUR lineage too, good sir. Just one example: Sarah was Abram’s half-sister,
so there is a touch of incest in the lineage of all our Jewish friends.

Of course, if we take Genesis literally, the whole human race has a bit of incest in it’s lineage. After all, where did Cain get his wife if not from other un-named daughters of Adam and Eve ?? And where did Seth get his wife? And so on… oy.

God bless,
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
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I admit that incest is a part of my history and that we believe the Messiah will also be a descendent of the offspring of Lot and his daughters (as well as the offspring of a convert). Nevertheless, I admit I made a cheap shot. It just seems to me that for some people the entire purpose of religion is to ostracize homosexuals and Harry Potter books.
 
wifeandmomoftwo said:
Valke2

arent homosexual acts a “sin” in judiasm also?
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Conservative Judaism has recently (December 2006) adopted a ruling permitting the ordination of gay rabbis and recognizing the committed relationships of homosexuals. It based its ruling on the fact that there are homosexual Jews who are being deprived of the basic human dignity of entering into a loving committed relaitonship. The ruling upheld the band on the specific act of anal intercourse between men, as this is a prohibition set forth in the Torah. Each Conservative community is free to adopt this ruling or to follow the more traditional ruling. Both can disagree with each other but both recognize that the neither is breaking Jewish law.

I stress that this is within the COnservative halacha. Orthodox Judaism still takes the more traditional approach that Catholicism follows.
 
Jaypeeto4 said:
**I’m shocked at the extent people will go to condem others for having sex. **

Are you then shocked by Moses and the Torah,
which condemns not only homosexual acts,
but all sorts of sexual behavior outside of a male-female marriage, as acts worthy of death??

Or are you one of those modernized Jews who regard the Bible as a quaint curiosity rather than a binding moral code?

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
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So now after mocking Jesus you build strawmen. No one has been calling for the death of those who enage in homosexual sex .I also dont see anyone here justifying adultery as an expression of love.
 
Valke2 said:
Conservative Judaism has recently (December 2006) adopted a ruling permitting the ordination of gay rabbis and recognizing the committed relationships of homosexuals. It based its ruling on the fact that there are homosexual Jews who are being deprived of the basic human dignity of entering into a loving committed relaitonship. The ruling upheld the band on the specific act of anal intercourse between men, as this is a prohibition set forth in the Torah. Each Conservative community is free to adopt this ruling or to follow the more traditional ruling. Both can disagree with each other but both recognize that the neither is breaking Jewish law.

I stress that this is within the COnservative halacha. Orthodox Judaism still takes the more traditional approach that Catholicism follows.
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So it is only Orthodox Jews that view this as “breaking the law” while reform and conservative jews have no issue with it?
 
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