Episcopalians/Anglicans VS. Catholics

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commenter said:
Freedom for its own sake is useless. What’s crucial isn’t just freedom from, but more opportunities. If you choose to learn, you give up freedom to be ignorant. When I chose to marry one particular woman, I gave up certain other activities. But by exercising my freedom to make one sacramental commitment, I or we are tied in, united in with the other 6 sacraments as well. We are free to bond with the Magisterium of the Church, a reliable guide we both follow. We have a bond with many likeminded Christian families. Other kinds of “families” define marriage in 100 different, contradictory, often conflicting ways. Their freedom offers fewer opportunities than Catholicism, because there’s no unity. In the name of “freedom” they are losing the opportunity to make a lifetime commitment. Practicing Catholics still have that opportunity because of unity of belief, unity of social and supernatural supports Catholicism offers.

Life is like a playground surrounded by a dangerous cliff. Without a fence people are nervous about running too fast or playing anywhere near the edge. With the fence, you can run as fast as you want, play anywhere you want. The Church maintains the fence, and the Church provides many opportunities inside - but only those who respect the fence benefit from them, and this has always benefited many non-Catholics. Some want to rip the fence to provide more “freedom”, this is what the Media and Government want to do. They not only want to rip the fence for themselves, they want to stop the ability of the Catholic Church to maintain the fence for anyone, or take any action at all. That’s why today 95% of all attacks on Christianity are attacks on the authority of the Catholic Church, as such.
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And that cliff image is traceable to the last chapter of Chesterton’s ORTHODOXY, and is reflected in the title of THE CATCHER IN THE RYE.

GKC
 
commenter said:
Freedom for its own sake is useless. What’s crucial isn’t just freedom from, but more opportunities. If you choose to learn, you give up freedom to be ignorant. When I chose to marry one particular woman, I gave up certain other activities. But by exercising my freedom to make one sacramental commitment, I or we are tied in, united in with the other 6 sacraments as well. We are free to bond with the Magisterium of the Church, a reliable guide we both follow. We have a bond with many likeminded Christian families. Other kinds of “families” define marriage in 100 different, contradictory, often conflicting ways. Their freedom offers fewer opportunities than Catholicism, because there’s no unity. In the name of “freedom” they are losing the opportunity to make a lifetime commitment. Practicing Catholics still have that opportunity because of unity of belief, unity of social and supernatural supports Catholicism offers.

Life is like a playground surrounded by a dangerous cliff. Without a fence people are nervous about running too fast or playing anywhere near the edge. With the fence, you can run as fast as you want, play anywhere you want. The Church maintains the fence, and the Church provides many opportunities inside - but only those who respect the fence benefit from them, and this has always benefited many non-Catholics. Some want to rip the fence to provide more “freedom”, this is what the Media and Government want to do. They not only want to rip the fence for themselves, they want to stop the ability of the Catholic Church to maintain the fence for anyone, or take any action at all. That’s why today 95% of all attacks on Christianity are attacks on the authority of the Catholic Church, as such.
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I do understand your fence analogy. But for me when I don’t have opportunity to breathe it can also feel like a noose around my neck. But different playgrounds for God’s children all. Peace my brother. 👍
 
andrewstx said:
For a good view on Anamnesis and the Anglican view on the Mass as sacrifice I would recommend “THE SHAPE OF THE LITURGY” by Dom Gregory Dix.

I’m sure that GKC has this book, I lost mine. If you are extra nice to him he might loan you his copy.
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It’s a lousy book with dated scholarship, much of which has been debunked. Dix hated the BCP.
 
Sy_Noe said:
I do understand your fence analogy. But for me when I don’t have opportunity to breathe it can also feel like a noose around my neck. But different playgrounds for God’s children all. Peace my brother. 👍
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There is a “Magisterium” of science. Biology and Chemistry follow consistent principles. Elements follow the same pattern on the moon that they do on Earth, and the same pattern in 2014 that they did in 1914. We can draw conclusions about stars billions of miles away based on limited data because we know they follow the consistency - the Magisterium - of science. Progress in medical care is possible only because we can use the Scientific Method - i. e., the Magisterium - to build on information we already gained, from many scientific fields. We have much more to learn!

When people abandon the Science Magisterium, you might think they would have more freedom, but this leads to pseudoscientists, cranks whose fringe ideas are incompatible with the Science Magisterium, and incompatible with each other. If you read crank books from 100 years ago, and pseudoscience books and websites today, you find they have made no successful innovation, no progress at all in their schemes for Perpetual Motion machines, reincarnation, Astrology, anti-Gravity devices, etc. They have made no productive research they or anyone can build on.

Outside the Science Magisterium they may feel they have freedom in the sense of “Freedom From”, but they lack the “Freedom to do” constructive research or development that comes from the discipline, hard work and consistency that comes from a commitment to the Magisterium. The discipline and hard work of the Magisterium opens up doors to real change, progress, constructive new ideas, and unexpected opportunities to do things, both in Science - and Religion.

Read “Orthodoxy” by G. K. Chesterton.
 
commenter said:
There is a “Magisterium” of science. Biology and Chemistry follow consistent principles. Elements follow the same pattern on the moon that they do on Earth, and the same pattern in 2014 that they did in 1914. We can draw conclusions about stars billions of miles away based on limited data because we know they follow the consistency - the Magisterium - of science. Progress in medical care is possible only because we can use the Scientific Method - i. e., the Magisterium - to build on information we already gained, from many scientific fields. We have much more to learn!

When people abandon the Science Magisterium, you might think they would have more freedom, but this leads to pseudoscientists, cranks whose fringe ideas are incompatible with the Science Magisterium, and incompatible with each other. If you read crank books from 100 years ago, and pseudoscience books and websites today, you find they have made no successful innovation, no progress at all in their schemes for Perpetual Motion machines, reincarnation, Astrology, anti-Gravity devices, etc. They have made no productive research they or anyone can build on.

Outside the Science Magisterium they may feel they have freedom in the sense of “Freedom From”, but they lack the “Freedom to do” constructive research or development that comes from the discipline, hard work and consistency that comes from a commitment to the Magisterium. The discipline and hard work of the Magisterium opens up doors to real change, progress, constructive new ideas, and unexpected opportunities to do things, both in Science - and Religion.

Read “Orthodoxy” by G. K. Chesterton.
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Nevermind. Science is not the topic. In matters of faith one would have to have faith in the Magisterium.
 
Sy_Noe said:
Nevermind. Science is not the topic. In matters of faith one would have to have faith in the Magisterium.
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Or, one could also properly enjoy ORTHODOXY, written when Chesterton was an Anglican.

GKC
 
Sy_Noe said:
Nevermind. Science is not the topic. In matters of faith one would have to have faith in the Magisterium.
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You keep quoting in your signature Pope Francis, who was a professional scientist!
I realize the topic is about Anglicanism and Catholicism, but my reasoning reflects writers on that Anglican-Catholic border, like G. K. Chesterton (Anglican to Catholic) and C. S. Lewis (stayed Anglican). The struggles - cooperation and conflicts - between science and religion most often involved Anglicanism, and that influences Anglicanism today. I think it’s no coincidence the most dramatic period of development in science happened in England, which was Anglican. You can’t really describe the history of science without bringing in Anglicanism because half the greatest scientists before 1940 were either Anglicans or living in a heavily Anglican-influenced culture.

I would gladly claim credit for my ideas, but GKC keeps showing where I took the ideas from.
 
commenter said:
You keep quoting in your signature Pope Francis, who was a professional scientist!
I realize the topic is about Anglicanism and Catholicism, but my reasoning reflects writers on that Anglican-Catholic border, like G. K. Chesterton (Anglican to Catholic) and C. S. Lewis (stayed Anglican). The struggles - cooperation and conflicts - between science and religion most often involved Anglicanism, and that influences Anglicanism today. I think it’s no coincidence the most dramatic period of development in science happened in England, which was Anglican. You can’t really describe the history of science without bringing in Anglicanism because half the greatest scientists before 1940 were either Anglicans or living in a heavily Anglican-influenced culture.

I would gladly claim credit for my ideas, but GKC keeps showing where I took the ideas from.
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It’s a sort of hobby. Can’t always source stuff, but I try.

Been collecting folk like that for roughly 50 years.

GKC
 
GKC said:
It’s a sort of hobby. Can’t always source stuff, but I try.

Been collecting folk like that for roughly 50 years.

GKC
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When (if) I start having, and communicating, new ideas, and people start vaguely echoing them, you can add a post,
“Ah yes, source is from Commenter, post #34,
Thread title “Use of semi-colons by the Early Church Fathers”,
Catholic Answers Forums, March 3, 2027”.
 
commenter said:
When (if) I start having, and communicating, new ideas, and people start vaguely echoing them, you can add a post,
“Ah yes, source is from Commenter, post #34,
Thread title “Use of semi-colons by the Early Church Fathers”,
Catholic Answers Forums, March 3, 2027”.
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Got it in the files, for future use.

GKC
 
commenter said:
When (if) I start having, and communicating, new ideas, and people start vaguely echoing them, you can add a post,
“Ah yes, source is from Commenter, post #34,
Thread title “Use of semi-colons by the Early Church Fathers”,
Catholic Answers Forums, March 3, 2027”.
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Yes, there are certain posters I file statements from but not all of GKC unrelated to this topic 😉
 
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