The Episcopal Church known for unity in Church doctrine? Certainly you’re no Episcopalian or you definitely would not be making that claim. The Episcopal Church USA is currently excommunicated from the worldwide Anglican Communion for ordaining gay bishops. If that’s an organization you wish to support, go for it.This is so typical of what always happens in here when a catholic paints him/herself into a corner. I know Catholics who say that the resurrection was really something piece-mealed together to point to how our faith should work. Now how about that for unity? And excuse me, you did trash him by calling church doctrine his opinion. This is a direct insult on the man’s intelligence and it speaks volumes to your arrogance and disrespect for other faiths
God bless, keep, preserve and protect any such folks in their dilligent efforts to be God-pleasing, GKC.And I can find you Anglicans that are different from what you describe here.
GKC
I just looked at this page and did not find Fr. Guerard’s statement on the Assumption.Go to St. George’s Anglican church Helmetta, N.J. website and look at what Fr. Guerrard says about the Assumption in his Anglican vs. Catholic column.
What does that have to do with anything?? How do I know that you aren’t a Jehovah’s Witness? And so what for that matter. Geeze…If I might interject here, how do we know you’re an ex-Catholic? How do we know you’re Anglican? How do we know you’re name is even Branden? It could be Leslie for all we know.
Back on topic.
Anyways, I’ve always been baffled at the fact that Episcopalians try so hard to paint themselves as Catholic (some even try to say that we’re almost identical), yet are Catholic only of their opinion.
In Pax Christi
Andrew
Again sir, it is astonishing how you don’t know the Episcopal church and then attempt to say that it is I who is ignorant of Catholic faith. Again, go to Fr. Guerrard’s column and see what is said about referring to the church as “she”. This is probably one of the things most detestable to Episcopalians whether liberal or conservative. You have a gross misunderstanding of Anglican church teaching.I am not going to get into a spat with you Branden. I have many friends among the Clergy of the Episcopal Church to this very day. The Bishop of Fort Worth was my classmate and next-door neighbor in Chelsea Square (seminary). My daughter’s godfather, and my best friend – our former Rector – is now a retired Bishop.
Everything I learned about Jesus Christ and about the sacraments, I learned as an Anglican. To say that I disrespect other faiths is a grotesque caricature. The faith I learned as an Episcopalian IS the Catholic faith. The river of tears that I and many others shed as the Episcopal Church departed further and further from her true self were the bitterest of my life. I loved the Episcopal Church. She is my mother. But for the love of Jesus Christ, as many others have done before me, had to come to Rome in order to follow my Lord with full integrity.
That was uncalled for. You’re a newby here and far to green to be throwing out those sort of allegations. I’ve read hundred’s of Mercygate’s posts and they have been consistently thoughtful, intelligent, learned and credible…as well as far more charitable than you’ve been.I don’t believe you.
Can you provide a link? I looked in the Catholic/Anglican section and did not find the statement you are referring to.Again sir, it is astonishing how you don’t know the Episcopal church and then attempt to say that it is I who is ignorant of Catholic faith. Again, go to Fr. Guerrard’s column and see what is said about referring to the church as “she”. This is probably one of the things most detestable to Episcopalians whether liberal or conservative. You have a gross misunderstanding of Anglican church teaching.
Kind of you rt. Knowing what your journey has I truly am gratified and appreciate the affirmation.That was uncalled for. You’re a newby here and far to green to be throwing out those sort of allegations. I’ve read hundred’s of Mercygate’s posts and they have been consistently thoughtful, intelligent, learned and credible…as well as far more charitable than you’ve been.
stgeorgeshelmetta.orgCan you provide a link? I looked in the Catholic/Anglican section and did not find the statement you are referring to.
I went to the web site; I did not find your specific reference, and would like to follow up as you suggested. Can you perhaps snip the quote(s) for me or link directly to the specific page on the site where I will find what you are referring to? Reminder: Assumption of the BVM and calling the Church “she.”
No problem. We do not teach the Assumption of Mary into Heaven. We find no witness to this in scripture.I went to the web site; I did not find your specific reference, and would like to follow up as you suggested. Can you perhaps snip the quote(s) for me or link directly to the specific page on the site where I will find what you are referring to? Reminder: Assumption of the BVM and calling the Church “she.”
Thanks.
Again, may I have the quote from Fr. Guerard on this that you referred to? Thank you.No problem. We do not teach the Assumption of Mary into Heaven. We find no witness to this in scripture.
“We” are the church. It is not an institution composed of clergy and it is not our “mother”.
those are the two quotes from Fr. Guerard. Go to the St. George’s of Helmetta N.J. website and click on the Catholicism link to the left and scroll down to the paragraph about Mother Church and then about Mary. You will find them there.Again, may I have the quote from Fr. Guerard on this that you referred to? Thank you.
OK. Thank you. I found the statements you are referring to.those are the two quotes from Fr. Guerard. Go to the St. George’s of Helmetta N.J. website and click on the Catholicism link to the left and scroll down to the paragraph about Mother Church and then about Mary. You will find them there.
I can respect what you said here, but I don’t find what he said nearly as odd. I was Catholic for over 3 decades and I always believed that Catholics were taught to believe that Mary is the mother of the church and many Catholics refer to the church as “she”. That always bothered me even after many conversations with my priest. Just as Fr. Guerard pointed out, Mary is not the truest realization of faith as pointed out in the Catholic Catechism, but jesus Christ is. This is a much more biblically supported statement.OK. Thank you. I found the statements you are referring to.
"In the Anglican Church, we do not speak of “the Church” apart from all of the members who make it up. It is not an institution composed of clergy, and it is not our “mother”. The church is not an “it” at all. "
and
"Neither do we teach the assumption of Mary into heaven (CCC 966-969). We find no witness to this in Scripture. "
Since the Catechism of the Episcopal Church is silent on the subject of Our Lady’s Assumption, I certainly agree and understand that many Anglicans do not accept this teaching – and they are free to do so. But since this teaching can be demonstrated by Scripture (another thread), and since it derives from doctrines pertaning to the Person of Jesus Christ as codified in the Chalcedonian definition (which Anglicans accept), Anglicans are free to believe it and many Anglicans do believe it.
I am utterly perplexed by Fr. Guerard’s suggestion that Catholic teaching would limit the definition of the Church to “an institution composed of clergy” (that’s just absurd) or that we think of the Church as an “it” – We think of the Church as a “Who”, namely, Jesus Christ. We refer to her as “our mother” because it is in the bosom of the Church that the faith is preserved and transmitted.
I said the Episcopal Church was my “mother” – meaning the lap in which I sat and learned to love my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
I am perplexed by Fr. Guerard’s characterization of the Catholic view of the Church as represented in the Catechism. You may not believe that I was trained as an Episcopal Priest, but I was. Honestly, in all through seminary and in 3 decades as an Anglican, I never encountered Fr. Guerard’s view that Catholics think the Church is something “apart from all the members who make it up.”
I am sorry your Catholic teachers were not better able to clarify “Mother of the Church.” When we refer to the Church as “she” it is not to Mary, but to the Church as “the Bride of Christ.” That’s plainly Scriptural. Insofar as the Church is the Body of Christ, and Mary is the Mother of Jesus: well, 1 + 1 = 2. This high metaphor also incorporates Our Lord’s statement “Behold thy mother,” which both Catholics and Anglicans believe named Mary as the mother of every Christian. If Jesus is our brother, then Mary is our mother.I can respect what you said here, but I don’t find what he said nearly as odd. I was Catholic for over 3 decades and I always believed that Catholics were taught to believe that Mary is the mother of the church and many Catholics refer to the church as “she”. That always bothered me even after many conversations with my priest. Just as Fr. Guerard pointed out, Mary is not the truest realization of faith as pointed out in the Catholic Catechism, but jesus Christ is. This is a much more biblically supported statement.
Well, I have to say that you are wrong again on Anglican teaching. We believe that Jesus spoke literally that Mary was the maternal mother of James. We do not believe that she is the mother of every Christian. I can assure you of that. My two priests at my church will also attest to that.I am sorry your Catholic teachers were not better able to clarify “Mother of the Church.” When we refer to the Church as “she” it is not to Mary, but to the Church as “the Bride of Christ.” That’s plainly Scriptural. Insofar as the Church is the Body of Christ, and Mary is the Mother of Jesus: well, 1 + 1 = 2. This high metaphor also incorporates Our Lord’s statement “Behold thy mother,” which both Catholics and Anglicans believe named Mary as the mother of every Christian. If Jesus is our brother, then Mary is our mother.
Open another thread on the Mother of James, although this has been done to pieces in these forums.Well, I have to say that you are wrong again on Anglican teaching. We believe that Jesus spoke literally that Mary was the maternal mother of James. We do not believe that she is the mother of every Christian. I can assure you of that. My two priests at my church will also attest to that.
I think that you need to be careful with generalizations in categorizing “Anglican teaching”. The Anglican Communion and the various offshoots from that Communion are not a confessional church but, rather, a liturgical church based on the liturgy of the BCP. My guess is that the teachings of the particular branch of Anglicanism to which I used to belong (conservative evangelical Episcopal) might differ from both what you are used to and what Mercygate is used to. All three though can lay claim to being Anglican based on the BCP and other aspects of the Church.Well, I have to say that you are wrong again on Anglican teaching. We believe that Jesus spoke literally that Mary was the maternal mother of James. We do not believe that she is the mother of every Christian. I can assure you of that. My two priests at my church will also attest to that.