Eradicating White Supremacy in the Church in America

[Booknut]

Obviously, only white Americans are expected to feel ashamed of the bad acts in American history. This is because only they fully identify with the historical America.

Define historical America.

How do you interpret this verse?

“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” Galatians 3:28

 

[dochawk]

No, the 3/5ths compromise was because Northern states with less slaves didn’t want the Southern state’s with more slaves to have as much power. The counting of persons determined congressional representation.

still not quite there. Slave states wanted slaves counted for representation, but not taxation, while “free” states wanted slaves counted for taxation, but not representation. At the time, direct federal taxation could only be by population apportionment. (for that matter, that is still the case, which is why there’s an amendment to allow the income tax, which was previously stricken on this ground).

There would not be a Constitution, or the United States, without both this compromise and the large/small state compromise giving equal representation in the senate. It is not that folks failed to hold out for an anti-slavery constitution; it just wasn’t among the options.

It’s easy to look back at some of these by todays standards, but people are complicated.

Slaveholder Jefferson wrote that “All men are created equal” freed some o this slaves on death, and a couple in his lifetime.

Slaveholder Washington, the richest man on the continent at the time of the Constitutional Convention, was harsh to some f his slaves.

Slaveholder General Andrew Jackson during the War of 1812 ordered that his black troops be paid the same as his white troops, to the scandal and dismay o this paymaster and others. The man who would lead the trail of tears also adopted raised the abandoned Indian infant whose tribe would not take him.

Abraham Lincoln abhorred slavery, thought blacks had a distinct smell, that the black and white races could live side by side only with the white in absolute control, and was NOT an abolitionist as commonly stated. Rather, he believed in gradual expatriation, and joined statements condemning abolitionism as being as vile as slavery. He also stated that if he could save the union by freeing some of the slaves, all of the slaves, or keeping all of them enslaved, he would do so.

Times and individuals don’t fit into nice clean slots that we can judge by today’s standards; they are products of their tine.

I wonder what faults the future will find with us today? Certainly the way we “stand by” while millions of unborn children are slaughtered. What about race? Which way, and which issues, are we inconceivably wrong about?

I see the difference between my generation, my parents’ and my grandparents. It doesn’t take malice to have attitudes that we disapprove of.

hawk

 

[Arkansan]

Arkansan:

Obviously, only white Americans are expected to feel ashamed of the bad acts in American history. This is because only they fully identify with the historical America.

Define historical America.

The group of people that people generally think of when thinking of American history. It’s not that complicated.

How do you interpret this verse?

“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” Galatians 3:28

That all cultures are (or can be) unified in the Catholic faith, but that this unity does not entail the abolition or diminution of individual cultures (as the Judaizers St. Paul opposed would have it).

 

[Booknut]

Good question! Whom ought it to refer? But to whom does it refer?

As I mentioned, African-Americans are the one group which has not assimilated well. And so there are the two groups in the US in that respect. But how is it that the assimilation did not take place? Not because black people were trying to maintain their heritage, but because whites were trying to maintain their dominance. In between segregated facilities and red-lining, the law “kept black people in their place.” Is that a part of white culture you want to maintain?

For me, I think the US culture should be open to all. I also think that all should be allowed in, not forbidden entry. At the same time, we also need to realize that it is a process.

And I agree that we should maintain and improve our American culture and not allow it to be subverted by others.

This post is well-intentioned, and I agree with most of it. Some questions though…

What would you say is the difference between US culture and “white culture”?

Have you considered that perhaps a lot of African Americans want to own their culture and not have to defer to whiteness as the cultural standard?

 

[Annie]

You bring up a very complex point: the tension between belonging and individuality. Dr John Rao did a great talk on this many years ago, as applied to young people, and explained that people want to belong to a group, but they also want freedom to be themselves.

I noticed a long time ago that a group requires some shared vision in order to cohere, but that to load too many can cause disruption.

If we have a common vision in the US, we can gather around it, and for decades, the idea of a place in which people could have more freedom than in most other places laid over a very vaguely Christian ideal worked for us. Work hard, take care of yourself, and help others and you’ll get ahead.

The problem in that the is or was that we excluded some people from that common vision simply because of their status as ex-slaves or their descendants, or those who were apparently so. And some people still exclude people because of their ancestry.

Oh, dear, I posted that before I had finished

Anyway, the flip side of the country is that of individuality. While there needs to be a certain amount of commonality for a group to function, there also needs to be a certain amount of space for individuality for people to flourish. Deviations from the common vision, like being Communist, won’t work at all, but does wearing a sari or a dashiki disrupt the common vision? How about the niqab?

It does seem like some adherance to a particular culture, like not speaking English, causes too much disruption in the common aspect of our nation, altho we are certainly doing our best to mitigate those difficulties for people. Each thing has to be considered by the individual. People in the US are permitted to speak whatever language they please, and we will even make certain accommodations for that, but at the same time, if people refuse to speak the majority language they may suffer just as speaking out on the basis of one’s free speech right is permitted, but might result in consequences. And then there is the problem of a native English speaker who does not speak Spanish, and so is unable to get a job on a construction crew or fast food restaurant.

So all these issues are issues we are learning to deal with, but it is part of our “growing up,” one might say.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Are you talking about Antifa, radical Islam? Maybe union or college protesters?

 

[Apache75]

Any group of people that advocate violence towards another group. So yes.

 

[petra22]

To tell you the truth I thought you were saying that white people should be run out of the church–because it seems a lot of times today people are saying white people are white supremacists just because they are white…? Then I read more and you are talking about organized white supremacists?

 

[petra22]

American Civic Religion
Civic Religion??? not in my dictionary???

 

[petra22]

The Church was organized at a time in human development when women were precluded from leadership roles at all levels.

Jesus could have come at any time in the history of the world. Look what time he chose. He has a plan for us. Each of us is part of HIS PLAN. It’s not our plan. We are part of HIS plan… he has his reasons. mho

 

[on_the_hill]

I’m talking about racial supremacy of any color.

 

[SuperLuigi]

I can ASSURE you it’s not just white people who are called that anymore!

 

[TheOldColonel]

Come to think of it, I have noticed a few strange things. For one, the altar cloth is white, purificators are white, albs are white, babies are given a white garment at baptism. A white pall is draped over caskets at funerals. The host is white. Brides dress in white. The paschal candle is white. The donation envelopes are white. My pastor drives a white car. My cat is white. What’s going on here? I can’t believe I didn’t see this before!