Essence precedes existence?

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Wow. That is a lot of stuff and categorization. The mind loves to do that. It is its job: to divide and make distinctions. …
If, as you say, the mind loves to make up essences or categories then a mind must exist before it can do “its job: to divide and make distinctions.” Therefore, existence precedes essence.

If one still contends that “essence” precedes “existence” then one necessarily must claim that the mind discovers and does not create essences. One would be tasked to prove such a claim. I think that would require one to enter the mind of the Creator. However, I’m all ears.
 
First, I experientially know that Essence IS. But it has no attributes, nor form, nor duration, only Being.
I looked and perhaps I missed it, but … could you give us a clear definition of what you mean by “essence.” You say you experienced essence … I’m not denying that. I’m just curious why you put the word “essence” to the thing you experienced. I’m wondering what your reason was.
 
o_milly~*I think that would require one to enter the mind of the Creator. However, I’m all ears. * It is difficult to enter where you already are, save by realizing that you forgot you are there.

o_~a mind must exist before it can do "its job: to divide and make distinctions. Mind, as Essence, IS, and allows “a” mind to seem to perceive existence.

Areo~I didn’t say what Essence IS, because no man can. It can only be pointed to. It may be approached by noticing everything it is not.
 
Areo~I didn’t say what Essence IS, because no man can. It can only be pointed to. It may be approached by noticing everything it is not.
This may be a problem. Perhaps we are simply using the word “essence” in different ways. Aristotle’s definition is “that which makes something what it is” (what gives it its “first” nature … as opposed to any accidental second nature). This is how I use it too, in addition to all Catholics here (unless I’m wrong). Now, is this what you mean?

There must be some reason why you labelled what you experienced with the English word “essence.” Why did you do that? Was part of your revelation a command that you use this word? You see what I’m saying?
 
o_milly~*I think that would require one to enter the mind of the Creator. However, I’m all ears. * It is difficult to enter where you already are, save by realizing that you forgot you are there.
A bit ethereal for me; sounds more like a liine from the poetry of Wordsworth’s *Ode Intimations of Immortality *than Descartes fundamental cogito premise.
o_~a mind must exist before it can do "its job: to divide and make distinctions. Mind, as Essence, IS, and allows “a” mind to seem to perceive existence.
A bit muddled, I fear. Can you suppot this claim, say, by relating essence to a creature w/o a mind – an apple, for instance?
Areo~I didn’t say what Essence IS, because no man can. It can only be pointed to. It may be approached by noticing everything it is not.
Really? Men are most certainly able to say: “essence” is the attribute or set of attributes that make an object or substance what it fundamentally is, and which it has by necessity, and without which it loses its identity.

May I suggest you define your terms (semantics!) For instance, you capitalize the word “essence.” Does that have a significance, and if so, what?
 
Areo~“that which makes something what it is” is, in Essence, God, or Being. At the level of consideration you are choosing to limit yourself to, the word “essence” might refer to “idea,” as in that “chair” embodies the idea of “comfort” and “utility,” or a car or an elevator embody the idea of “immediacy.”

~I “labeled” what I experienced as Essence because That is what it IS. There are no commands inherent in Revelation, only a Standpoint that re-organizes the hierarchy of experience according to its Foundation on Essence, which is synonymous with Being, yet nameable as a facet.

o_milly~sounds more like a liine (sic) from the poetry of Wordsworth’s Ode Intimations of Immortality than Descartes fundamental cogito premise. Don’t know that Ode. Will look it up. Descartes, on the other hand, mis-stated the actuality of the dynamic. He might better have said: “I AM, therefore there is Light to my awareness of ideas and thought.” Understanding proceeds from the Star, not up to it.

~Can you suppot (sic) this claim, say, by relating essence to a creature w/o a mind – an apple, for instance? Where is the apple if you are not present as awareness to perceive it? Where is the apple in any case?

~Really? Men are most certainly able to say: “essence” is the attribute or set of attributes that make an object or substance what it fundamentally is, and which it has by necessity, and without which it loses its identity. Of course, men can say anything. And when most men say “fundamentally,” they are yet speaking of the field of perception called subject/object, or relative field. That is the quale of distinctions and limits dependent on, yet One with Essence. But whatever is said is nevertheless a symbol manipulated in mind. It is always a description, always incomplete, only a pointer to an aspect of an idea, and never the “thing” itself, that thing being experienced in an entirely different context and meaning for each “perceiver” despite the commonality of the symbol.
 
o_milly~May I suggest you define your terms (semantics!) For instance, you capitalize the word “essence.” Does that have a significance, and if so, what? I capitalize certain word to distinguish them from their ordinary usage. For instance, for most people, “reality” refers to their experience, as viewed through their particular filters as acquired by the necessary choices we each make in order to survive as children. Those chosen filters carry through and are the actual foundations of our “adult” interpretations of the world. They always persist unless ferreted out by deliberate work, or by the further necessity of shock. Thus, Reality refers to Reality beyond our thoughts about it.

Referring to Areo’s use of terms of logic, while it might be true that the Church and Catholics use Aristotelian terms, there are other systems of definition that are far more true to fact than those usages. I prefer them for the sake of simplicity, clarity, and accuracy. An old “Model A” might be fun to toot around in, but I’d rather go by jet helicopter or the like.

Similarly, I will often bold the word “I” to distinguish its actual referent in Eastern philosophical thought, which stream many of the statements attributed to Jesus stem from, whether He Himself said them originally or not. This nuance is generally lost to translators who speak English. This is because grammars, being different, and nuanced referents being largely symbolic in the parable structure and form of Teaching, those meanings are not easily accessible to many of them as constructs in awareness. This has drastic implications for religiosity, as you might imagine.

“Semantics” usually refers to usage colored by meaning, or visa versa. To me, semantics refers to General Semantics, which is a discipline related to the rules and ways of thought. There is even a “handbook of religious sanity” which is written through the analytical tools afforded by General Semantics. It is used in many comparative religion classes, as it covers the basic pitfalls in thinking about religious matters whatever your faith.
 
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