Ethical Eating (of animals)

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Specifically, considering both the posted link and Catholic moral teaching, to purchase an egg from a farm that you know uses human trafficking involves material and arguably illicit cooperation with evil.
 
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Just to try and lighten this up a little, where I grew up, “vegetarian” was a word that meant “bad hunter.”
 
The problem with that is it takes a long time to actually correlate the two. The Framingham study in MA took years to show a direct correlation, and even now some of that data is up for conjecture.
 
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Dr. Dean Ornish diet was proven to be less effective than the Atkins Diet, which sent him off the rails.

Dr Ornish is a general practitioner, where Dr Atkins was a cardiologist.

Some of Dr Ornish program is beneficial, especially reducing stress. However, his anti-fat approach has been shown to be unhealthy overall.

Jim
 
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Shakuhachi said:
Continuing the discussion from jewish-- why aren't we kosher?:

One of the many reasons I am vegan is because of the inhuman treatment of animals. It is too much to hope for others joining me but are we not all cooperators in the torture.of these animals. So how about at least trying to eat animals that have not been through the farm factory nightmare. A Catholic Kosher, if you will permit. That would involve due diligence in avoiding a share in the maltreatment of the animals slaughtered. That could simply mean eating closer to the source, local farms and ranches. Or perhaps at least taking an interest in where exactly that hamburger, bacon of whatever animal flesh is at your table, came from. And how the animals where treated before butchering.
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Hey, animals eat us. Payback is he**. 😋🤣:roll_eyes:
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Dr. Dean Ornish diet was proven to be less effective than the Atkins Diet, which sent him off the rails.

Dr Ornish is a general practitioner, where Dr Atkins was a cardiologist.

Some of Dr Ornish program is beneficial, especially reducing stress. However, his anti-fat approach has been shown to be unhealthy overall.

Jim
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Hey Jim.

I know he’s not a cardiologist, but he’s a doctor that has spent the last 30-40 years researching heart disease so outside a surgical environment, he’s treated as a peer by most folks who have finished residency in cardiology.

And at losing weight, youre right. Low carb is faster up front but most studies I’ve seen show most physician approved diets to be neck and neck for folks who stick with them for more than a year.

The reason people do Ornish is indeed to lose weight, but of a very small sort. They wanna skinny up those plaque deposits in their coronary arteries.
 
Yeah there’s been a few and the inherent difficulty in isolating variables does leave room for doubt on a lot of long term studies.

Part of the beast, I’m sure you well know.
 
Thanks for your replies. Perhaps I was not clear enough. My reference to “Kosher” was specific to the treatment and slaughter of animals. The same would be true for Muslim halal. I am not trying to say some food sources are inherently sinful because of Jewish or Islamic law. Rather, there may be some spiritual aspect to our cooperation in the suffering of these animals. Some of you got that. Thank you.

I am not arguing that it is immoral to eat meat. Nor will I argue that it is healthy for everyone to avoid all animal products.
(I personally believe both those points but will not argue them.)
Someone mentioned Dr. Ornish. See also McDougall, & Esselstyn, if a whole food plant base diet interests you.

https://www.lifestylemedicine.org/
http://www.dresselstyn.com/site/




And I am not here to try to make anyone feel guilty. I just want to raise awareness and perhaps get a few to reconsider. It seems like many take their spiritual lives very seriously, even the fasting and abstinence at certain times. But beyond that anything goes. No way to give up that precious cheese or burger regardless of the suffering that may have been involved in the processing.

But back to the treatment of animals
“Traditional Jewish thought has expressed the view that all meat must come from animals which have been slaughtered according to Jewish law. These strict guidelines require the animal be killed by a single cut across the throat to a precise depth, severing both carotid arteries, both jugular veins, both vagus nerves, the trachea and the esophagus, no higher than the epiglottis and no lower than where cilia begin inside the trachea, causing the animal to bleed to death. Orthodox Jews argue that this ensures the animal dies instantly without unnecessary suffering, but many animal rights activists view the process as cruel, arguing that the animal may not lose consciousness immediately, and activists have called for it to be banned.”


see also


If you are interested.

I think this is an overlooked aspect of our lives. We wrongly take it for granted that the food in front of us is somehow unrelated to the suffering of a sentient being.

I am glad someone brought up the point that farming also has its problems with how workers are treated.

http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-act...e-nutrition-rural-issues/for-i-was-hungry.cfm
 
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Trust me, I’m very familiar with Ornish, Atkins, The Zone, Weight Watchers and I can’t remember what others.

I’m not terribly overweight, 20 lbs, but just try to eat healthy.

Fat is a necessary part of the human diet. You can try using vegetable fats, but they’re not as effective in keep your energy levels up.

Anyway, diets are like religion and people will defend the one they’re on to the death.

The bottom line is, whatever works for you, stick with it.

Jim
 
Fat doesn’t make one fat. I eat a high fat moderate protein diet…I don’t eat hardly any red meat. I will have to research it again, but I do remember readin about a study which said the the majority of heart attack patients did NOT have high cholesterol …something to think on for sure.
 
Inflammation may be just as important.

But let’s stay on the ethics.
 
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Some say, the very moment our species began to eat meat, we crossed a threshold, a liminal moment in time marking a change in trajectory. For the act itself, the taking of life and the consumption of flesh and blood, alienated the most amicable aspect of our collective being, peaceful coexistence with the enfleshed. And, in that moment, our vision of the world, of ourselves, of other life, changed. We found ourselves looking longingly, seeing Creation through eyes of our animal, appetitive drives, original innocence now abraded by unbridled hunger for life, subdued so often, not by true virtue, but by pretension and half-hearted concession to the constraints of tribal codes, religious codexes, and the constructs of modern civilization. Yet, despite the progress of millennia, the acquisition and consumption of flesh remains a primary endeavor of humanity.
 
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Shakuhachi said:
It is too much to hope for others joining me but are we not all cooperators in the torture.of these animals. So how about at least trying to eat animals that have not been through the farm factory nightmare.
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Unfortunately, if the cruel practices didn’t occur, meat prices would be much higher.
Should substantially higher prices be a problem?
Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe meat was a luxury in the past. Maybe this mentality should be brought back. Maybe who should have meat only on Sundays and special occasions. Maybe Catholic authorities should make meatless Fridays as penance an obligation.
I admit I don’t buy ethical meat. We just don’t know if a higher price really means the animal was slaughtered under better conditions. Unfortunately, the labelling system in Canada is quite lax. And it’s practically not possible when eating out.
 
Shakuhachi said:
One of the many reasons I am vegan is because of the inhuman treatment of animals. It is too much to hope for others joining me but are we not all cooperators in the torture.of these animals.
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Very true. It is wrong to cooperate in the torture of animals.
 
I agree with you. It’s something that I’ve been giving a lot more thought over the past months.
 
Shakuhachi said:
Continuing the discussion from jewish-- why aren't we kosher?:

One of the many reasons I am vegan is because of the inhuman treatment of animals. It is too much to hope for others joining me but are we not all cooperators in the torture.of these animals. So how about at least trying to eat animals that have not been through the farm factory nightmare. A Catholic Kosher, if you will permit. That would involve due diligence in avoiding a share in the maltreatment of the animals slaughtered. That could simply mean eating closer to the source, local farms and ranches. Or perhaps at least taking an interest in where exactly that hamburger, bacon of whatever animal flesh is at your table, came from. And how the animals where treated before butchering.
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It’s conceivable (and highly probable) in the future that the general population won’t eat animals and if they eat meat they will only eat meat that is grown directly. Eating animals at that point would become viewed as imprudent and emotionally uncomfortable for future generations. Self-enhancements to intelligence, self-control, metabolism, etc., on a genetic level are also likely one or two generations away, and that will rapidly speed up the advent of vegetarianism.

It will never become objectively sinful because animals aren’t made in the image of God and do not have rational souls. If they do, then eating them would be a mortal sin just as it would be a mortal sin to kill and eat a child. Keeping them as pets, locking them up in a yard or a house, and buying/selling them would also be objectively mortally sinful.

I’ve been practicing a pescatarian diet for the past 3 months (it’s hard to believe it has already been that long) and it is starting to solidfy into a habit. Most days I also go without eating fish. I’ve been doing it for spiritual reasons and it has been pretty neat so far. The 2nd month was when I had the strongest cravings for Carl Jr’s charcoal burgers but they’ve subsided as of late. Having a vegan diet is pretty impressive; it’s difficult to imagine also cutting dairy out of my diet, but then again I thought the same way about meat not so long ago.

Peace.
 
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The Trappist rule is vegan. However they will serve meat in their guesthouse as a sign that their not eating meat is a discipline rather than a moral objection to eating meat.
 
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