Ethics of Fur

[JaneGrey]

This has been addressed already in this thread.
I see nothing wrong with the cages, or their size. For the most part it is for their own protection as well as the health and benefit of the other animals.
You are starting to remind me of the PETA group that raided a fur farm to free all of the minks.
The minks were all dead by morning.

We raise animals for food. Why not raise them for clothing as well?
We are afforded that right by God.

Wearing fur? No.

They are in fact living beings. Their lives do matter, they are a precious commodity and should be well cared for to suit our need.

No, it doesn’t. They were raised for a specific purpose, and are fulfilling that need.
The only constraints are that the suffering be minimal to fulfill the need.

We raise animals for food. Why not raise them for clothing as well?

Raising animals for food serves a purpose, for clothing it does not. If we needed to use animal fur the way we need food, we would have been born with thier fur. We do not need to use fur, therefore it causes unnecessary suffering when we kill animals for their fur. This is not just an issue for ‘‘animals rights people’’. I know and know of a countless amount of proud meat-lovers, some who do not particularly care to be around animals, but who find the idea of humans ewaring fur from another animal cruel and revolting. In my views against wearing fur I am influenced both by the Catholic religion and the culture I grew up in. The people who raised me are as Catholic as anyone else yet they did not see the need for fur when there are other alternatives.

Now that is just plain silly.

Your opinion that it is silly does not make it so. If you are do not explain why you come to conclusions like that am I wrong to assume you are getting defensive? Please remember no one is judging you personally.

 

[mmsiciliana]

understandable since this is the business your family was engaged in while you grew up -

so the animals raised and used for expensive coats does not give you pause, but I think you and I have discussed the issue of resources previously - do you think it is justifiable for an individual to use their resources this way when a less expensive (fur free) means can meet that need?

As Catholics I think we are always called to strive for balance - looking at how our needs can be met with our resources so we can use our resources to help others. A young family may opt to spend more on a bigger car then they would have when they were single, but they have investigated the safety ratings of cars and find that this extra expense for the car and fuel is justified to keep their family safe - they may have a choice then between one that meets their needs and one that cost an extra $20,000 - to spend the extra money IMHO is something to be considered carefully - why is there value of brand - all things being equal - except to impress?

I do not want to start a discussion off topic about cars but just use this as an example to make a point - when ones needs can be met with something less expensive and with something that does not cause the an animal to suffer or die - than that would be preferential in my eyes given the CCC:

And further teaches about our own resources:

Given all this - if I spend $5000 on a fur coat when a $500 synthetic coat would meet the need to keep warm - am I using resources properly?

It seems that many people on this thread think that the price of the fur coat is artificially inflated, like diamonds. Did you know that there is more than a mile of thread used in a mink coat? The pelt is cut into diagonal rectangles and those rectangles are then sewn back together so that the pelt becomes longer and thinner. All of the pelts that are used have to be matched because the slightest variation in color will show. That being said, the $5000 spent on a fur coat will buy a warmer, more durable product than the $500 spent on a synthetic coat. How often have you heard about fur coats being “handed down”? How often have you heard about synthetic coats being “handed down”? So, to use your own words, “all things being equal” most certainly does not apply when it comes to real fur versus synthetic.

 

[Marfran]

Given all this - if I spend $5000 on a fur coat when a $500 synthetic coat would meet the need to keep warm - am I using resources properly?

Holy smokes!!! I have never spent even close to $500.00 on a coat, let alone $5,000.00!!!

2445** Love for the poor is incompatible with immoderate love of riches or their selfish use:**

Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you. Your riches have rotted and your garments are moth-eaten. Your gold and silver have rusted, and their rust will be evidence against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have laid up treasure for the last days. Behold, the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts. You have lived on the earth in luxury and in pleasure; you have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter. You have condemned, you have killed the righteous man; he does not resist you.237

 

[mmsiciliana]

Raising animals for food serves a purpose, for clothing it does not. If we needed to use animal fur the way we need food, we would have been born with thier fur.

I guess that you disagree with God then. He clothed the first humans in leather (which is fur with the hair removed). He felt human beings needed the protection and he didn’t create them, or us, with our own fur so that we don’t need clothing.

 

[severus68]

It seems that many people on this thread think that the price of the fur coat is artificially inflated, like diamonds. Did you know that there is more than a mile of thread used in a mink coat? The pelt is cut into diagonal rectangles and those rectangles are then sewn back together so that the pelt becomes longer and thinner. All of the pelts that are used have to be matched because the slightest variation in color will show. That being said, the $5000 spent on a fur coat will buy a warmer, more durable product than the $500 spent on a synthetic coat. How often have you heard about fur coats being “handed down”? How often have you heard about synthetic coats being “handed down”? So, to use your own words, “all things being equal” most certainly does not apply when it comes to real fur versus synthetic.

 

[mmsiciliana]

Holy smokes!!! I have never spent even close to $500.00 on a coat, let alone $5,000.00!!!

2445** Love for the poor is incompatible with immoderate love of riches or their selfish use:**

Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you. Your riches have rotted and your garments are moth-eaten. Your gold and silver have rusted, and their rust will be evidence against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have laid up treasure for the last days. Behold, the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts. You have lived on the earth in luxury and in pleasure; you have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter. You have condemned, you have killed the righteous man; he does not resist you.237

Again, Marfran, your words betray you. You have been shown that the animals don’t suffer and they are killed humanely, so you keep coming back to what really bothers you and that is that someone else can afford to buy what you cannot. You keep saying “No one is judging you” and then you post a Bible verse about defrauding the poor in order to become rich. Not every person with money gained it by living in Manhattan working in a would have failed bank that was bailed out by Obama. Some people have actually earned their money honestly and use it to help the poor as well as to feed their families and, if they wish, buy a fur coat which is not prohibited by our faith.

 

[Marfran]

It seems that many people on this thread think that the price of the fur coat is artificially inflated, like diamonds. Did you know that there is more than a mile of thread used in a mink coat? The pelt is cut into diagonal rectangles and those rectangles are then sewn back together so that the pelt becomes longer and thinner. All of the pelts that are used have to be matched because the slightest variation in color will show. That being said, the $5000 spent on a fur coat will buy a warmer, more durable product than the $500 spent on a synthetic coat. How often have you heard about fur coats being “handed down”? How often have you heard about synthetic coats being “handed down”? So, to use your own words, “all things being equal” most certainly does not apply when it comes to real fur versus synthetic.

The cost of the fur includes the housing and feeding of 40 animals–that’s why it is so expensive, in addition to the curing of the pelt and all the workmanship. And you are right!!! There is NO NEED to continue to cause animals to suffer and die for our vanity furs when we can buy a “used” fur from a resale shop, or accept a ***hand me down ***from Grandma or Aunt Emily. Nowadays they are recycling a lot of things. The days of a “throw away” society are coming to an end.

 

[mmsiciliana]

With respect I have to disagree. Iam no expert but living in Northern Europe Id say im well able to judge how useful something is for keeping one warm. I have tried on a fur coat once a while ago and it was warm but not particularly warmer than any of my synthetic coats. Besides, it didnt feel right wearing it. Anyway, even if there are some fur coats out there warmer than synthetic ones, there is always something called layering. My non-animal fur coats have always served me well but failing that I just put more clothes on underneath. I can also go about my day with no restriction from the added clothes. I think it is something you might have to get used to, but it can be done.

You “tried on a coat” once. That’s not quite the same as wearing one. I wore one once in 20 below zero (Farenheit) with a driving wind. Everywhere the coat was, I was perfectly warm. Everywhere the coat was not, I was layered, and I was cold. I KNOW a fur coat is warmer from experience. There is nothing like fur for warmth. Plus, there’s no need to layer, so movement is very easy when you’re wearing a fur.

 

[severus68]

It seems that many people on this thread think that the price of the fur coat is artificially inflated, like diamonds. Did you know that there is more than a mile of thread used in a mink coat? The pelt is cut into diagonal rectangles and those rectangles are then sewn back together so that the pelt becomes longer and thinner. All of the pelts that are used have to be matched because the slightest variation in color will show. That being said, the $5000 spent on a fur coat will buy a warmer, more durable product than the $500 spent on a synthetic coat. How often have you heard about fur coats being “handed down”? How often have you heard about synthetic coats being “handed down”? So, to use your own words, “all things being equal” most certainly does not apply when it comes to real fur versus synthetic.

A mink coat is a luxury item, it s not a question of the price being inflated or not. Furs are best left on and look best n their original owners.

It is the very fact that mink or sable coats are luxury items that makes some people cherish them and look at them as heirlooms. I am sorry but it also a fact that some pole are also revolted by furs, Fur coats need to be stored an handled properly and that adds on to the costs of having one. If someonelikes the feel of something soft, try faux fur. Its much cheaper, easier to maintain and no animals need die to give up their own fur.

 

[Marfran]

Again, Marfran, your words betray you. You have been shown that the animals don’t suffer and they are killed humanely, so you keep coming back to what really bothers you and that is that someone else can afford to buy what you cannot. You keep saying “No one is judging you” and then you post a Bible verse about defrauding the poor in order to become rich. Not every person with money gained it by living in Manhattan working in a would have failed bank that was bailed out by Obama. Some people have actually earned their money honestly and use it to help the poor as well as to feed their families and, if they wish, buy a fur coat which is not prohibited by our faith.

I ***have not been shown that animals don’t suffer and are killed humanely. If wanted to ***I could probably afford several fur coats.

Accumulating earthly riches and killing animals to wear the fur that God gave to them, is not appealing to me, nor do I find it a responsible expression of the gift of “income” obtained from honest work.

 

[JaneGrey]

You “tried on a coat” once. That’s not quite the same as wearing one. I wore one once in 20 below zero (Farenheit) with a driving wind. Everywhere the coat was, I was perfectly warm. Everywhere the coat was not, I was layered, and I was cold. I KNOW a fur coat is warmer from experience. There is nothing like fur for warmth. Plus, there’s no need to layer, so movement is very easy when you’re wearing a fur.

I have to say that I also think layering works fine. I live in a cold climate as well and have not needed to use fur.

 

[severus68]

You “tried on a coat” once. That’s not quite the same as wearing one. I wore one once in 20 below zero (Farenheit) with a driving wind. Everywhere the coat was, I was perfectly warm. Everywhere the coat was not, I was layered, and I was cold. I KNOW a fur coat is warmer from experience. There is nothing like fur for warmth. Plus, there’s no need to layer, so movement is very easy when you’re wearing a fur.

The post you are responding to here is not my post, not sure why it appears as mine. Never had or tried on a fur coat.

 

[JaneGrey]

I guess that you disagree with God then. He clothed the first humans in leather (which is fur with the hair removed). He felt human beings needed the protection and he didn’t create them, or us, with our own fur so that we don’t need clothing.

Correct me If im wrong but didnt the first humans decide to clothe themselves out of shame after eating the forbidden fruit?
Im sure even if God allowed Adam and Eve to wear leather, He would not have done so for the sake of it. There may not been other alternatives. The circumstances are not the same today. Argue all you want, but leather has an important difference from fur. It is taken from animals raised and killed for food. It is a byproduct.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

I want to go to to the “fur farm.” The American or European “fur farm” that keeps animals captive in tiny cages and then kills them for fur coats, etc. Not the hunter who turns his “kill pelt” into a coat–he’s utilizing everything from his kill. Animals ***specifically raised ***to be killed for luxury fur–and in this country (USA) it’s going to be expensive (many dollars), unless the company is going out of business and liquidating everything.

So I get it–you don’t think that there is anything wrong with it. The animals, their lives do not matter, they are commodities, not living beings. It doesn’t matter what they are killed for, what they suffer for. It doesn’t matter if they are food, or luxury apparel. It doesn’t matter if their pelts are worn for vanity, or as a status symbol of wealth. There is no difference between the Eskimo of the 19th century wearing fur and animal pelt to keep warm, or the wealthy woman of 2009 who wears her fur on a 60 degree day as she strolls down Rodeo Drive.

From what I read and posted, fur farms in the US do seem humane. The minks have a longer life span than out in the wild. Mother monks get to raise and nurse their kits. They are not electrocuted , but gassed. As a consumer, I am glad that these options are available. The animals are not mistreated. I doubt that is equally true for trapped animals or furs from China.

As for the carcasses, they are not wasted, but go to use as food for other animals in zoos, or for bait in the fishing industry.

I don’t have a fur coat…but I wear leather. Leather is biodegradable. I’m not sure “pleather” is. Also, doesn’t fake leather utilize petroleum products for it’s manufacture?

Also, those on this thread who have no problem with fur coats, haven’t been advocating for Panda fur coats, or California Condor cutlets.

I’m not a meanie who hates animals.

 

[JaneGrey]

The post you are responding to here is not my post, not sure why it appears as mine. Never had or tried on a fur coat.

I think it appeared as yours. I thought it was yours as well so responded to you. Oh well. I have never tried on a fur coat but know people who used to use them but have switched to synthetics.

 

[4elise]

It seems that many people on this thread think that the price of the fur coat is artificially inflated, like diamonds. Did you know that there is more than a mile of thread used in a mink coat? The pelt is cut into diagonal rectangles and those rectangles are then sewn back together so that the pelt becomes longer and thinner. All of the pelts that are used have to be matched because the slightest variation in color will show. That being said, the $5000 spent on a fur coat will buy a warmer, more durable product than the $500 spent on a synthetic coat. How often have you heard about fur coats being “handed down”? How often have you heard about synthetic coats being “handed down”? So, to use your own words, “all things being equal” most certainly does not apply when it comes to real fur versus synthetic.

I haven’t heard of any coat being handed down to be honest - (must not move in those circles) and appreciate that the ‘cost’ of a fur coat is truly a reflection of the ‘cost’ to raise the animals and prepare the pelts and make the coat —

going back to my analogy about the car - could the same couple then justify spending another $100,000 to obtain a hand made car because the ‘cost’ reflects the ‘cost’ to make it ? —

would their ability to hand down the car to a future generation justify the expense ? - driving it now (as someone wearing a coat - justify it because it will be handed down?) only to say that they will leave it to their children?

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Correct me If im wrong but didnt the first humans decide to clothe themselves out of shame after eating the forbidden fruit?
Im sure even if God allowed Adam and Eve to wear leather, He would not have done so for the sake of it. There may not been other alternatives. The circumstances are not the same today. Argue all you want, but leather has an important difference from fur. It is taken from animals raised and killed for food. It is a byproduct.

Really, we are talking about God, He isn’t limited by his own creation. He could have made woolen clothes, cotton clothes, silk. God gave them the furs.

 

[severus68]

Again, Marfran, your words betray you. You have been shown that the animals don’t suffer and they are killed humanely, so you keep coming back to what really bothers you and that is that someone else can afford to buy what you cannot. You keep saying “No one is judging you” and then you post a Bible verse about defrauding the poor in order to become rich. Not every person with money gained it by living in Manhattan working in a would have failed bank that was bailed out by Obama. Some people have actually earned their money honestly and use it to help the poor as well as to feed their families and, if they wish, buy a fur coat which is not prohibited by our faith.

How did Obama come on his thread? It is not a question of whether someone can afford a coat or not.

 

[severus68]

I think it appeared as yours. I thought it was yours as well so responded to you. Oh well. I have never tried on a fur coat but know people who used to use them but have switched to synthetics.

Strange.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

My friend spent about $2500 for hers and wore it every winter for at least 10 years. That works out to less than $1.00 per day.