Ethnic Masses?

[pnewton]

Back to the topic, at our bi-lingual parish the division between Spanish/English speakers does not matter as much as the divisions that exist between those who always attend a specific Mass time. Yet overall, we are not a divided parish. Within the ministries, we work together. On Holy Days of Obligation, we worship together. At the parish festival, we play together.

Also, we recently had a neighboring parish closed for financial reasons. Together, the hispanincs and non-hispanics are twice as strong as we would be separately. Otherwise, I do not know how we would make it.

 

[Esquire]

To get back to the topic: having grown up in a Polish-American parish which had at least one Mass each Sunday in Polish, and now living very close to the Shrine of our Lady of Czestochowa, which continues to have Mass, stations, etc. in Polish, I know a little about this.

The reason for having Mass in the non-English language is for the benefit of the non-English speakers in the parish. Obviously, it’s better for anyone to celebrate the Mass in a language they actually understand than sit silently through a Liturgy in a language they don’t know. In this regard, almost no one would understand the Mass celebrated in Latin.

So, the size of the non-English-speaking population of your parish should be the determining factor. (BTW, I would not include bi-lingual members in this count).

 

[Catholic_Eagle]

deogratias:

And of course if YOU have not heard of it, then it didn’t happen

Was that an insult or something else?

 

[deogratias]

Not really an insult, more like teasing you because it did seem a bit picky - sorry I just couldn’t resist - especially with you own comment of “sorry if this seems stiff”.

 

[jennstall]

robertaf:

Greetings Church

Our Diocese is having a synod to address some issues that we are facing. We have had parish meetings, getting the parishioners feelings on different things.

The topic of various ethnic or non-english Masses has been brought up all over the Diocese.
The majority, as I have been told, feel Spanish, Portuguese, etc., Masses divide the Parish.
I won’t go into details but will just ask you, how you feel about this?

Oh dear, this is something I’m dealing with in my own parish right now. My geographical parish almost exclusively caters to the Spanish community. Spanish Masses outnumber English Masses, the bulletin is supposed to be bilingual, but not everything is translated into English though everything appears in Spanish, the small giftshop stocks a Bible and a couple of prayer books in English and everything else is in Spanish. Most of the community groups in the Parish conduct their activities in Spanish.

I speak English only. I live only two blocks from the next parish’s border, but unforunately it is one of the most popular parishes in Southern California and hence it has become very strict about geographical boundaries because otherwise tons of non-residents would become members of the parish so they can get married there, have baptisms there etc. I could probably argue a case that I am not served by my own parish, but part of my hesitates to do that because I wonder if my negative reaction to my own parish is just internalized racism and classism on my part. So I’m wondering if there is a lesson for me to learn here. I am still discerning my motivations and I’ve elected, for the moment, to give this parish a chance since I just joined it, but I do now fervently wish all Masses were held in Latin so this wouldn’t be an issue. big sigh

 

[Irish_Melkite]

Catholic Eagle:

IrishMelkite:
The Croatians and SLovenians did the Mass in Slavonic using the Glagothic alphabet in the writing of the Missal. I have never heard of anyone refer to Glagothic as a language before. Sorry if this osunds stiff.

My brother, Eagle, is correct. I was sloppy (outright erroneous) in my choice of wording. Glagolithic indeed refers to the script and the Liturgy was served in Old Church Slavonic.

I should indeed have said “Mass for Croat and Slovak Catholics of the Latin Rite was served in Old Church Slavonic, the historic liturgical tongue of the region, using the Glagolithic text, developed by Saints Cyril and Methodios, which gave the Mass its name.”

Many years,

Neil

 

[robertaf]

I speak English only. I live only two blocks from the next parish’s border, but unforunately it is one of the most popular parishes in Southern California and hence it has become very strict about geographical boundaries because otherwise tons of non-residents would become members of the parish so they can get married there, have baptisms there etc. I could probably argue a case that I am not served by my own parish, but part of my hesitates to do that because I wonder if my negative reaction to my own parish is just internalized racism and classism on my part. So I’m wondering if there is a lesson for me to learn here. I am still discerning my motivations and I’ve elected, for the moment, to give this parish a chance since I just joined it, but I do now fervently wish all Masses were held in Latin so this wouldn’t be an issue. big sigh

I lived most of my life in Southern California so I think I know what you mean.
I have been in Northern California since 1990 and it really rocked me when you wonder about internalized racism or classism. I am so glad to be away from that imposed guilt. Please don’t let the social pressures do that to you.
I have never been a racist, ever. However, I remember continually worrying that if I even ask a question it would be interpreted that way. Our family is bi-racial if that tells you anything. Three of my grandchildren are half black. We actually, rarely think about that.
Unless you are fluent in Latin, you would have the same problem. You still would have to make extra arrangements to understand.
I think you will have to find another parish if the Pastor is unwilling to address the problem you are having. As far as I know, you shouldn’t be restricted to one parish. Have you thought of calling the Diocese and asking advise?

 

[jennstall]

robertaf:

I lived most of my life in Southern California so I think I know what you mean.
I have been in Northern California since 1990 and it really rocked me when you wonder about internalized racism or classism. I am so glad to be away from that imposed guilt. Please don’t let the social pressures do that to you.

I’ve only been in California about 7 years. I’m originally from Boston and I also lived overseas for several years so I’m not sure that it is SoCali PC guilt that is getting me down, but my own intensely negative reaction to first seeing this parish church and reading it’s mass schedule and bulletin. But you are right that I shouldn’t let social pressure get to me. I do think though that I need to give this church some time before looking for another alternative. I don’t even know the pastor yet and what’s he like and I’ve only been to one Sunday Mass here so far so I haven’t given it a fair shot yet.

 

[Kurziemom]

I’m in upstate NY-wine and farm country. We have a very large population of Mexican migrant farmworkers. The outreach in phenomonal, there is all kinds of activities and services for the migrant workers from dinners and free health care to a Spanish Mass every Sunday. As the outreach efforts have continued over the years we’ve lived in this community the more rich this community has become in its tolerance and understanding of each other. We’ve had the migrant workers form a “dance troupe” dedicated to (gasp) liturgical dance. Absolutely beautiful in the right context-which it was- thanks to the pastor and pastoral assistant, who are actually quite traditional.

 

[puzzleannie]

the purpose of the liturgical changes which allowed Mass to be celebrated in vernacular languages was to allow people to hear the fullness of the proclamation of God’s Word and preaching and interpretation of that Word. the original impetus, which began long before V2 (history of liturgical renewal is done to death on other threads), was to serve mission territories and validate what many missionaries had already found to be most effective, going back to Cyril & Methodius, Jesuits in Asia etc. (The RCIA developed for the same reason).

America of all places, where prit near everybody, at least in larger cities, has grown up in an ethnically mixed environment, should be receptive of this idea. We have already fought these battles - Italian parishes vs. Irish pastors, German pastors vs. Irish immigrants. The American Catholic church developed in response to the needs of each wave of immigrants. The official public language of the State of Ohio was German, almost up until WW1, and the huge influx of Irish immigrants coming in first to build the canals, then railroads, then steel mills in the 19th c. posed a challlenge to the mainly German speaking pastoral hierarchy. So it has gone all through our history.

there has always been a balance, more or less uneasy, more or less workable between ethnic and “generic” parishes, and between ethnic groups in the same parish.

get back to fundamentals. V2 and the bishops speaking together with the pope have mandated that whenever possible, and without setting up roadblocks, the people hear the Word proclaimed in their own language. get with the program and quit bitchin’

If you are in the fortunate position of being graced with a growing presence of Hispanic Catholics in your parish, get down on your knees and thank God, and do you job as a parish and serve their needs. They will be the saving and renewal of the Catholic Church in this country, which in many places functions as little more than a country club. Welcome them, and be prepared to meet a faith with power and depth you may never have seen before.