Ethnic parishes to close in Scranton diocese

[Vincent_N]

Sarabande:

He does need prayers. I remember him in my childhood parish in my diocese and he seemed fine. Unfortunately, I think he is often looked upon as one of Cardinal Bevilacqua’s “cronies”, who came to Philadelphia with a somewhat notorious reputation of already bankrupting dioceses and then proceeded to close down parishes and schools left and right in Philadelphia, amongst other things. I know Philadelphia is much happier with their current archbishop. Bishop Martino, unfortunately, has this stigma of being connected to Bevilacqua to contend with and that is shame.

Well, whoever is insinuating those things isn’t being sincere. I’ve lived here for 26 years and I have seen the changes over the years.

Catholic schools close down for lack of students. The cause of initial enrollment decline may vary. For example, scandal, crime or general neighborhood decline might cause families to move out. Increased collection dues and poorer quality of worship may cause others to follow. Inevitably at some point of decline, competition from public schools takes over as the cost of tuition rises and peer pressure sets in. Suddenly or not, the schools no longer have the enrollment numbers to justify their existence. When my grade school closed about 3 years ago, the K-8 enrollment was about a fifth of when I attended. To keep the school running would have cost something like 3-4 times the annual church income. We discussed the numbers with our current pastor at the time. There was no other choice.

The drop in church attendance was pervasive, not something to blame Cardinal Bevilacqua over other bishops. Cardinal Rigali is pure AWESOME, though.

As for Bishop Martino, I don’t know him personally. I used to work for his cousin, with whom I was close and who was my pastor until he retired. I’ve always thought highly of the bishop, because my Father gave me reasons to think highly of him. Other than that, we do share another connection which I won’t mention here. From what I have seen, I count Bishop Martino to be a blessing to the Church.

God Bless!

 

[Sarabande]

Well, whoever is insinuating those things isn’t being sincere. I’ve lived here for 26 years and I have seen the changes over the years.

I can’t get into how I know these things and shouldn’t do that, but I do know that those who expressed those feelings regarding the past archbishop were not being insincere.

Cardinal Rigali is pure AWESOME, though.

I would agree. It was like night and day. I correspond his coming as a start of a new life because it was also around the time we were married. We came home from our honeymoon, got to sing at his installation, have met him several times, he seems to be much more prayerful and sincere at his masses and from the start I think the diocese has changed for the better. Only one thing I’m not happy with, but everyone’s human. If I was happy with everything he’s done, then he might be God. hahaha!

As for Bishop Martino, I don’t know him personally. I used to work for his cousin, with whom I was close and who was my pastor until he retired. I’ve always thought highly of the bishop, because my Father gave me reasons to think highly of him. Other than that, we do share another connection which I won’t mention here. From what I have seen, I count Bishop Martino to be a blessing to the Church.

I don’t think badly of Bishop Martino at all (although my aunt and those parishioners up in the Scranton diocese, unfortunately, don’t have the greatest of feelings for him). I feel for them and I do feel for him in his position, and remember him when he was positioned at my childhood parish. And I just remembered my meeting him when he was a bishop in Phila. and we were all at some special breakfast. I had no idea that he became a bishop, but remembered his face and name so I went up to him - a late teen at the time. He seemed fine and was a nice man. Then later, I’d see him at the special diocesan masses in Philly. But I was just reiterating of how he has been associated with the previous Phila. archbishop and that hasn’t helped him. As I said in my past post, it’s a shame, and I hope people can look past that and judge him for himself.

But unfortunately, since bishops are also public figures, they will have to endure love and hate from all sides in a much bigger way that the average person.

 

[Kearney]

I don’t blame bishop Martino for this. He is just following the example of so many other dioceses across the country. The same thing happened to my old home parish in Burlington NJ. They combined it with a Polish church and formed a completely new parish. Both churches exist (although mass times for both places have been reduced) but are under one pastor.

It is a shame, a crying shame, that such things have to occur. The younger generation moves out due to lack of employment leaving a graying population behind. I am also worried that (as someone said and I almost expected) the churches being closed are the more traditional/conservative ethnic ones and those that remain open are the more modern/liberal “worship space” types. This would also lead me to believe that the reasons behind these massive waves of parish closings that have been hitting US diocese in the past 5 years may have more to do with Church politics and less to do with finances.

 

[PA650]

I still plan to introduce myself here formally at some point, but this topic caught my eye. In 2007, the SF Chronicle ran a series of articles pertaining to the closing of St. Brigid Parish under the orders of the former Archbishop. sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/03/25/MNGRSKRH2E223.DTL
This story seemed appropriate for this discussion.

 

[choose_to_love]

As a member of the Diocese, I have to say, from everything I have seen of Bishop Martino, he absolutely rocks! I am so thankful we have such a good shepherd.

In our corner of the diocese, there was not much restructuring to be done, but my bride was a facilitator for other regions. Every parish cluster was given ample, ample opportunity to come up with solutions that worked for everyone. I am talking about tons of meetings over months (and possibly for more than a year, before my bride became involved). The hostility toward the Bishop is just heartbreaking. The Lithuanians don’t want to worship with the Italians, who don’t want to be in the same church with the Irish - - it was absurdly, patently ridiculous.

In one town we lived in previously, there were four churches in one parish for a tiny population - - again, it was absolutely ridiculous to have four churches when there was clearly not the population to support it. And when we went to register with the parish, we were asked our ethnicity so the secretary would know what church to register us with! All the church buildings were within easy walking distance!

As to why a parish should be closed or consolidated when a priest wants to keep handling several parish communities, I can think of a few reasons. One, it just not reasonable - - why should that priest, willing or no, wear himself out trying to handle multiple parishes? Doesn’t he have an obligation to not work himself to the point he needs a sabbatical? Doesn’t the bishop have an obligation not to overburden his priests, particularly where there is such an acute shortage of priests? Two, it may be all well and good when that priest wants to do it, but what about when he is reassigned? Is it fair to the next guy?

It seems to me, from what I know, that Bishop Martino is making much needed but difficult decisions for the long-term good of the Diocese, which perhaps should have begun to be addressed long before this.

Bishop Martino has been tremendously supportive of both the Pre-Cana and Natural Family Planning programs of the Diocese, and has overseen the transition to a theology of the body based pre-cana that is infinitely superior to the prior diocesan pre-cana. He has been vocally, publically, and steadfastly pro-life, which is long, long overdue among the episcopate, again from what I can see as a relatively recent convert of ten years this Easter. It seems to me the bile directed to the Bishop is more a reflection of those spewing it than on our Bishop.

 

[Sarabande]

As to why a parish should be closed or consolidated when a priest wants to keep handling several parish communities, I can think of a few reasons. One, it just not reasonable - - why should that priest, willing or no, wear himself out trying to handle multiple parishes? Doesn’t he have an obligation to not work himself to the point he needs a sabbatical? Doesn’t the bishop have an obligation not to overburden his priests, particularly where there is such an acute shortage of priests? Two, it may be all well and good when that priest wants to do it, but what about when he is reassigned? Is it fair to the next guy?

I can totally understand this when it something totally new to a parish community that used to have multiple priests. It would be very difficult for a change like that. But at the church where I’ve attended, they have always had one priest handling three parish communities. It has always been that way for as long as anyone can remember - long before my family had come to that part of PA - like Pre-Vatican II. It’s a very rural area and that was nothing new.

For towns and more city-like areas, I can see how some parishes had to close, but in the more rural areas, some of the closings really didn’t make sense. What it has done to my eye, it has broken up the little community that it did have. It used to be a strong, thriving parish which had packed pews on every Sunday I was ever up there (and that was a lot, my family came up often on the weekends). Before the parish closed, I remember seeing the parish become even more traditional than it was - from a few young ladies wearing chapel veils to even more people filling the pews. It was remarkable and inspiring. But since the closure, it is nothing. And I’m not sure if it has to do with the longer distance to travel - especially for the older folks or what. Perhaps these people have found other parishes - I don’t know. But what I do know is that the little rural pocket does not have the same spiritual community that it once did. I guess to some, it would look like necessary collateral damage - something needed to work towards the greater good and future of the diocese, but it’s a shame even if it truly is for the greater good.

Again, I am personally not upset with Bishop Martino. I know he is trying to do the best he can with the advice and counsel that others around him are giving him. And I know that in some areas this was needed. But in other areas a few of these decisions just don’t make sense.

 

[JPUSC]

I remember visiting a local “Italian” Catholic church for a weekday Mass one day, and an elderly lady came up to me after Mass and said, “This isn’t your parish, is it?” and when I replied in the negative, she told me I should go back to my own parish! (I guess it was obvious I’m not Italian.

That wasn’t very nice. :ehh:

 

[Kearney]

Why does everybody always pick on the Italians:shrug: That fact alone makes us want to cling together even more.

The truth is that people like to cluster together in the groups that make them feel most comfortable. There are definitely differences between people and the way the choose to worship God and express their Catholic faith. We are all Roman Catholics, tis true, but still Italian Catholics do some things differently then Polish, or Lithuanian, or Irish Catholics due them.

Not everybody desires to become homogenized into a single group just to please the radical social planners and their visions of “utopia”.

I am always surprised as to how much hatred their is of ethnicity (especially white ethnicity) on both the extreme right and the extreme left. If a person of European ancestor chooses to cling to their heritage and tradition, they are accused of either being a racist by liberals and anti American by conservatives.

Some of us like who we are the kind of Catholics we practice and we do n to want to be homogenized. However, it appears as though we have very little choice in the matter as far as the higher ups are concerned.