Eucharist and contraception

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Women can get pregnant on their periods, are we contracepting when we abstain during menstruation too?
 
Pup7 said:
Abortion is pregnancy termination. You’re not pregnant until the egg implants.
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You are mistaken, this is not the Church’s definition.
Consequently your understanding of Church teaching on its immorality and the legitimate use of medicine will be correspondingly flawed.

Any intended attack on a fertilised egg, even before implantation, is considered direct abortion and is immoral.

 
LittleFlower said:
I do not believe that many couples satisfy the grave reasons bit at all.
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I dont feel the need to judge others in this discussion and it is a red herring.

The issue is whether you admit that when couples practice NFP for a grave reason (which everybody assumes when speaking of legitimate NFP) then it is not actually contraception at all so far as the Church is concerned.

To simply state all NFP is contraception (and so immoral) is not only contradicting actual Church teaching…it is also nonsensical.
I understand the moral principles involved, and have provided multiple links to credible sources.
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Where are your links on this point?
 
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Pup7 said:
That is between me and God, and no one else.
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I would think it involves every person you advise and you, as a loyal Catholic, have a very grave responsibility to properly educate yourself in your own faith. It seems you have never ever really done so but simply relied on quick informal advice from non specialist priests caught on the fly after mass.

If you indulged in that sort of medical updating for your medical professional ongoing education it would be a joke. Yet you seem to believe this is adequate for your understanding of professional Catholic ethics.
I am astonished myself.

There are very weighty ethical matters here you really do need expert education in I suggest. Your diocese should have an medical ethics committee you could approach to check your understandings against. There is also the issue of how Catholics would counsel non Catholics, also a minefield.
 
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Technically I guess it is contraceptive from the definition Little flower is using but NFP is not against Church rules.
 
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Tatum said:
It seems you have never ever really done so but simply relied on quick informal advice from non specialist priests caught on the fly after mass.
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Now you see, you had to go and say that. Now anything you say following it is not going to be taken seriously. You have no idea under what circumstances @pup7 got her advice from clergy. Don’t make stories up.
 
Tatum said:
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Pup7:
That is between me and God, and no one else.
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I would think it involves every person you advise and you, as a loyal Catholic, have a very grave responsibility to properly educate yourself in your own faith. It seems you have never ever really done so but simply relied on quick informal advice from non specialist priests caught on the fly after mass.

If you indulged in that sort of medical updating for your medical professional ongoing education it would be a joke. Yet you seem to believe this is adequate for your understanding of professional Catholic ethics.
I am astonished myself.

There are very weighty ethical matters here you really do need expert education in I suggest. Your diocese should have an medical ethics committee you could approach to check your understandings against. There is also the issue of how Catholics would counsel non Catholics, also a minefield.
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You’re well out of line there, friend.

There’s nothing wrong with my education, I assure you. I’m sure Duke University’s credentials are more than well known to you.
Tatum said:
I would think it involves every person you advise and you, as a loyal Catholic, have a very grave responsibility to properly educate yourself in your own faith. It seems you have never ever really done so but simply relied on quick informal advice from non specialist priests caught on the fly after mass.
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How do you know what I’ve done? I actually didn’t do this, not that it’s any of your business in the least. You have a very grave responsibility to not judge, my dear, and to not publish conclusions that are entirely your own without getting facts from the source. I’d advise you to stop making assumptions…surely you know what happens when you assume.

I actually am NOT in a position to counsel anyone on Plan B, because I don’t work emergency medicine. But I can tell you if someone asked about options, they’d get the facts, and by law (both military and under my license) I can’t tell someone what to do. But I am morally and professionally obligated to arm people with information, not personal beliefs.
Tatum said:
If you indulged in that sort of medical updating for your medical professional ongoing education it would be a joke. Yet you seem to believe this is adequate for your understanding of professional Catholic ethics.
I am astonished myself.
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How I conduct myself according to the rules I work under and the license granted me have no effect upon you personally unless you walk into my clinic. And as that’s unlikely to happen, you’d do yourself well to keep your judgments to yourself.

It’s more than adequate for me to do my job. I’m not at work to preach or judge. I’m at work to care for patients.

As I said, it’s all well and good until someone you know - or someone in your family - is put through the non-unitive act of forcible and violent rape.
 
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I’m constantly amazed at this forum that people say they are professors or have done PhDs when they are not verifiable.
Also I respect people for what they say currently not what they have done previously. If their current words do not match what they’ve done then I don’t care whether they’ve done x y z and been to x y z they either didn’t learn properly and wasted their time at those places. We have deacon on this forum if he doesn’t behave like a deacon then I have no respect for him. So people can say whatever they are but often it’s easy to evaluate whether they are a good one or a bad one. In fact if they don’t match what they say then throwing out more credentials simply embarrass themselves even further.

Trust me I’m a doctor. 😆

(May as well claim to be one since so many people claim to have credentials)😝
 
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Pup7 said:
Deleted because I realized it was just beating the dead horse this topic has become, and that I’m unconcerned what someone thinks of me for thinking Plan B (which I was told by multiple clergy, for the record) is perfectly fine to administer to a rape victim.

That is between me and God, and no one else. But I’d love to hear opinions on it when it’s someone’s family member who was raped, who was violently raped and forced to have sexual intercourse against her will.

Good day.
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Pup7 said:
That is between me and God, and no one else.
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Well God says it is not okay so you are rejecting what God has said.
 
@ratio1, was that directed at me?

I am 100% prepared to verify who and what I am with you if it was. Feel free to PM me.

I’m not a professor, just a graduate - but it is actually easy to verify someone who claims they are if they tell you where they work. You just call the school. LOL.
 
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Tatum said:
There are very weighty ethical matters here you really do need expert education in I suggest. Your diocese should have an medical ethics committee you could approach to check your understandings against. There is also the issue of how Catholics would counsel non Catholics, also a minefield.
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I counsel non-Catholics with facts. It’s not a minefield - it’s very cut and dry. I can’t prescribe, and I can’t tell people what to do. But when they ask questions, I have no option but to give them verifiable facts, because to do otherwise would professionally place me in jeopardy.

I’ve had patients who identify as Catholic (I can see religious preference in their military record) who are pregnant out of wedlock, who have STDs, who ask about birth control. I answer their questions and take care of them as patients. I’m a military officer and an RN, not a judgmental layperson or a priest.

You do you, and I’ll do my job. And God, my priest, and I will be the ones to discuss it. God will pass his judgment in due time.
 
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It wasn’t just directed at a particular person. I’ve met deacons, professor of economics, PhD in philosophy here on this forum.
I just don’t think anyone here should encourage anyone else to divulge personal information including real names or where they work (which is in the recommendation of forum conduct rules) and hence any credentials must be seen as unverifiable if we conform to this recommendation. Hence then it becomes meaningless.
Of course certain individuals may not mind divulging personal information but I think it serves as a bad example potentially to youngsters here who are less careful about their personal info than mature adults who would usually be careful about personal info.
I therefore of course do not demand nor do I wish to know anyone’s personal info.
As I said it is irrelevant. What matters is the substance of what people say not credentials.
 
Pup7 said:
That is between God and me, and I’ll be leaving it there. No need to comment on that fact.
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You are aware that rejecting a Church teaching is a sin of grave matter, aren’t you?? If you are aware then that would be a mortal sin and exclude you from Communion.
 
That depends on if I’ve actually done it.

As I said, this is between God and me. It’s truly none of your business. Please, go mind your own and not mine.
 
ratio1 said:
As I said it is irrelevant. What matters is the substance of what people say not credentials.
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If that’s the case, then the attempt to call people out shouldn’t have happened, should it? Couldn’t have been but so irrelevant if you felt compelled to put that comment out there. My license is public record and I can be found on Facebook (unfortunately). :woman_shrugging:t3:

It’s pretty poor form to cast professional aspersions on folks when you don’t know them in real life and haven’t encountered them in that environment.

Back to the thread.
 
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Your dictionary quote says DESTRUCTION of POC.
Preventing implantation is not the same as destruction.
 
Pup7 said:
It’s pretty poor form to cast professional aspersions on folks when you don’t know them in real life and haven’t encountered them in that environment.
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Are you talking about yourself?
I’m a doctor you know.
 
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