Eucharist considered Second Coming?

[Ron_in_minden]

Hello all, I was recently advised by a non-catholic christian that the Eucharist** cannot **be the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ, because if it was, “His presence here on earth would be the second coming”. Unfortunately I could not give a good responce to this accusation and the more I think about it I still cannot come up with a reasoned answer to this question. So I am asking my brothers and sisters in this community to help me form a competant answer in explaining why the Eucharist is not the second coming? Thank you.

 

[SMHW]

Hello all, I was recently advised by a non-catholic christian that the Eucharist** cannot **be the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ, because if it was, “His presence here on earth would be the second coming”. Unfortunately I could not give a good responce to this accusation and the more I think about it I still cannot come up with a reasoned answer to this question. So I am asking my brothers and sisters in this community to help me form a competant answer in explaining why the Eucharist is not the second coming? Thank you.

Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t think the terminology “second coming” is ever used in the Bible. That’s just a catch phrase that Christians have been using. So arguments that depend on counting the number of times Jesus is physically present on earth are just silly. And even if that phrase is used, I don’t think any of the terminology used to refer to Christ’s return can be compared to the Eucharist without playing further silly word games.

I would suggest that the Eucharist is not so much a case of Jesus coming into the world within the constricts of time and space as it is a case of us coming into contact with Jesus outside of time and space.

 

[po18guy]

Well, that protestant would simply crack their “supreme authority” open, they would see that it tells them that wherever two or three are gathered in Christ’s name, He is there among them (Matthew 18:20). Is that also a second coming? Poor people! They blind themselves for the sake of their anti-Catholic bigotry.

Matthew 28:20 “Behold, I am with you, even to the end of the age” He is with us in the Eucharist.

 

[triumphguy]

Hello all, I was recently advised by a non-catholic christian that the Eucharist** cannot **be the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ, because if it was, “His presence here on earth would be the second coming”. Unfortunately I could not give a good responce to this accusation and the more I think about it I still cannot come up with a reasoned answer to this question. So I am asking my brothers and sisters in this community to help me form a competant answer in explaining why the Eucharist is not the second coming? Thank you.

The Eucharist is a participation in, and a making present again of the Paschal Sacrifice.

So it’s not a kind of coming again.

 

[HisIsTheCrown]

Hello all, I was recently advised by a non-catholic christian that the Eucharist** cannot **be the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ, because if it was, “His presence here on earth would be the second coming”. Unfortunately I could not give a good responce to this accusation and the more I think about it I still cannot come up with a reasoned answer to this question. So I am asking my brothers and sisters in this community to help me form a competant answer in explaining why the Eucharist is not the second coming? Thank you.

The 2nd coming is depicted in the gospels in no uncertain terms, Coming in the Clouds the Son of Man, division between the Good and Bad and so on.
Sorry, your friend is inventing.

 

[Lancer]

Hello all, I was recently advised by a non-catholic christian that the Eucharist** cannot **be the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ, because if it was, His presence here on earth would be the second coming. Unfortunately I could not give a good responce to this accusation and the more I think about it I still cannot come up with a reasoned answer to this question. So I am asking my brothers and sisters in this community to help me form a competant answer in explaining why the Eucharist is not the second coming? Thank you.

He is right about what Christ’s presence really means…that his second coming will be his final coming…in tennis terms:…“point; game; set; match; winner”…its over! But this event is more correctly in scripture and doctrine/creed stated as…"…He will come again…". But we do use it in the “second coming” language:
**CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
SECOND EDITION
**

524 When the** Church celebrates the liturgy of Advent each year, she makes present this ancient expectancy of the Messiah**, for by sharing in the long preparation for the Savior’s first coming, the** faithful renew their ardent desire for his second coming**.200 By celebrating the precursor’s birth and martyrdom, the Church unites herself to his desire: "He must increase, but I must decrease."201

Here is your friend’s problem…Christ’s second coming will be in His Natural State of Being…as He sits at the Right Hand of the Father at this very moment in all of His Glory…but when He is really and truly present at the confection of the bread and wine being changed into His Body and Blood…He is really and truly Present in His** Sacramental State of Being**…A Sign…same God-Man…glorified in both Human And Divine Natures…but…not in His Natural State of Being. Your friend is right…if a priest confected the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ…**.and Christ suddenly appeared in His Natural State of Being…Its literally the end of time…FINIS!
**

1130 The Church celebrates the mystery of her Lord “until he comes,” when God will be “everything to everyone.” Since the apostolic age the liturgy has been drawn toward its goal by the Spirit’s groaning in the Church: Marana tha! The liturgy thus shares in Jesus’ desire: “I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you . . . until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.” In the sacraments of Christ the Church already receives the guarantee of her inheritance and even now shares in everlasting life, while “awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Christ Jesus.” The “Spirit and the Bride say, ‘Come . . . Come, Lord Jesus!’”

St. Thomas sums up the various aspects of sacramental signs: "Therefore a sacrament is a sign that commemorates what precedes it - Christ’s Passion; demonstrates what is accomplished in us through Christ’s Passion - grace; and prefigures what that Passion pledges to us - future glory."
​

Hope this is helpful.
Pax Christi

Below…some more paragraphs…1076 is key…
**CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
SECOND EDITION
**

THE SACRAMENTAL ECONOMY

1076 The Church was made manifest to the world on the day of Pentecost by the outpouring of the Holy Spirit.1 The gift of the Spirit ushers in** a new era** in the “dispensation of the mystery” the age of the Church, during which** Christ manifests, makes present, and communicates his work of salvation through the liturgy of his Church, "until he comes**."2 In this age of the Church Christ now lives and acts in and with his Church, in a new way appropriate to this new age. He acts through the sacraments in what the common Tradition of the East and the West calls “the sacramental economy”; this is** the communication (or “dispensation”) of the fruits of Christ’s Paschal mystery in the celebration of the Church’s “sacramental” liturgy**.

665 Christ’s Ascension marks the definitive entrance of Jesus’ humanity into God’s heavenly domain, whence** he will come again** (cf. Acts 1:11); this humanity in the meantime hides him from the eyes of men (cf. Col 3:3).

1323 "At the Last Supper, on the night he was betrayed, our Savior instituted the Eucharistic sacrifice of his Body and Blood. This he did in order to perpetuate the sacrifice of the cross throughout the ages until he should come again, and so to entrust to his beloved Spouse, the Church, a memorial of his death and resurrection: a sacrament of love, **a sign **of unity, a bond of charity, a Paschal banquet ‘in which Christ is consumed, the mind is filled with grace, and a pledge of future glory is given to us.’"135

I. THE EUCHARIST - SOURCE AND SUMMIT OF ECCLESIAL LIFE

1324 The Eucharist is "the source and summit of the Christian life."136 "The other sacraments, and indeed all ecclesiastical ministries and works of the apostolate, are bound up with the Eucharist and are oriented toward it. For in the blessed Eucharist is contained the whole spiritual good of the Church, namely Christ himself, our Pasch."137

1325 "The Eucharist is the efficacious sign and sublime cause of that communion in the divine life and that unity of the People of God by which the Church is kept in being. It is the culmination both of God’s action sanctifying the world in Christ and of the worship men offer to Christ and through him to the Father in the Holy Spirit."138

1326 Finally, by the Eucharistic celebration we already unite ourselves with the heavenly liturgy and anticipate eternal life, when God will be all in all.139

1327 In brief, the Eucharist is the sum and summary of our faith: "Our way of thinking is attuned to the Eucharist, and the Eucharist in turn confirms our way of thinking."140

 

[TheRealJuliane]

How could Christ initiate his own “second coming” when he was still on earth?



He gave Himself to His apostles while He was still in the flesh, so how could that be His 2nd coming?

 

[Cat_Herder]

Hello all, I was recently advised by a non-catholic christian that the Eucharist** cannot **be the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ, because if it was, “His presence here on earth would be the second coming”. Unfortunately I could not give a good responce to this accusation and the more I think about it I still cannot come up with a reasoned answer to this question. So I am asking my brothers and sisters in this community to help me form a competant answer in explaining why the Eucharist is not the second coming? Thank you.

Jesus also said
[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 18:20[/BIBLEDRB]
so then, is your non-Catholic Christian’s worship service the Second Coming?

All of their arguments just boomerang back on them if you think it through, read the Bible, and don’t worry. Read the quick answers linked to below, especially the ones about marriage and the Sacraments.

 

[Ron_in_minden]

Thanks for all the help and encouragement my friends.

 

[Ignatius]

Hello all, I was recently advised by a non-catholic christian that the Eucharist** cannot **be the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ, because if it was, “His presence here on earth would be the second coming”. Unfortunately I could not give a good responce…

At the second coming Jesus will return with kingly power, not under the appearance of bread and wine.
Jesus said “I am with you always, even unto the end of the age” and “I will not leave you alone” and He keeps His word. He will continue to be with His Church until that time when He returns in Glory!

 

[Blue_Horizon]

Here is your friend’s problem…Christ’s second coming will be in His Natural State of Being…as He sits at the Right Hand of the Father at this very moment in all of His Glory…but when He is really and truly present at the confection of the bread and wine being changed into His Body and Blood…He is really and truly Present in His** Sacramental State of Being**…A Sign…same God-Man…glorified in both Human And Divine Natures…but…not in His Natural State of Being.

Lancer
I generally agree where you are going on this but I am not aat all sure your sacramental theology is strictly correct.

I think we actually DO believe that Jesus is present in true bodily fashion (i.e. in his full substantial nature) in the Eucharist. “Natural State” , while I know what you mean, may not be accurate in terms of how the Church understands “nature” in any eucharistic theological teaching I have come across. If I am mistaken can you advise your source for this expression?

I think the answer is really much more simple. In the Eucharistic Jesus’s full bodily presence is hidden beneath the appearances of bread and wine. His glory is thus concealed and only known by the eyes of faith.

This, as you say, cannot be the 2nd Coming where Jesus comes in all his rightful glory.