Eucharist - Scriptures say it cannot be Christ?

[po18guy]

So, we must wonder if some man with a bible and a website is superior to the Words of Jesus Himself; superior to the Apostles, including Saint Paul; superior to the early Church fathers; superior even to the councils that canonized that same bible; superior to the Saints, Martyrs and Doctors of the Church? This one man with a bible makes himself superior in inspiration to all who have gone before him? He declares, by his own authority, that he alone is lead by the Holy Spirit and all who went before him were not?

IMO, this is a product of the ego, of which Satan is the head.

Let us pray for him.

 

[SonofMonica]

Not quite. It wouldn’t be very accurate, in my opinion, to say that only His Body is sacramentally present. The whole Christ is sacramentally present. The distinction is only that the Body is made sacramentally prsent by the power of the words, and the Blood and Soul is made sacramentally present through concomitance (the connection).

Okay, a very subtle difference, but I see it. Thanks a bunch!

 

[grannymh]

Are you saying that because Christ has a “resurrection body” that we should logically deduce that his body and his blood are inseparable from his soul and divinity? I think I see that in there.

Don’t tell anyone, but, I am not totally sure what I would say about 1 Corinthians 15.

Someone on another thread had mentioned verse 44 in connection with the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Personally, I prefer to read the context of single verses and discovered (in the footnotes) that Paul was having a hard time with the Corinthians because apparently some had the presumption that no kind of body other than the one we now possess would be possible. Sounded to me like the people who say that bread can only be bread. Regarding the Catholic Eucharist, I believe in Transubstantiation.

Most of us, at some point, find ourselves in the audience that Paul is writing to. When that happens, I like to spend time absorbing all that Paul is saying. At the end of the chapter, the dramatic side of my personality wanted to say emphatically–Where, O death, is your sting? Our Lord, Jesus Christ is alive, present in the Holy Eucharist.

Blessings,
granny

Human life is meant for eternal life.

 

[Verbum_Caro]

Okay, a very subtle difference, but I see it. Thanks a bunch!

You are welcome.

See The Council of Trent, 13th Session:

And this faith has ever been in the Church of God, that, immediately after the consecration, the veritable Body of our Lord, and His veritable Blood, together with His soul and divinity, are under the species of bread and wine; but the Body indeed under the species of bread, and the Blood under the species of wine, by the force of the words; but the body itself under the species of wine, and the blood under the species of bread, and the soul under both, by the force of that natural connetion and concomitancy whereby the parts of Christ our Lord, who hath now risen from the dead, to die no more, are united together; and the divinity, furthermore, on account of the admirable hypostatic union thereof with His body and soul.

 

[SonofMonica]

You are welcome.

See The Council of Trent, 13th Session:

I learn something new every day! What a rich faith we have been blessed with!

:bounce:

 

[SonofMonica]

Most of us, at some point, find ourselves in the audience that Paul is writing to. When that happens, I like to spend time absorbing all that Paul is saying. At the end of the chapter, the dramatic side of my personality wanted to say emphatically–Where, O death, is your sting? Our Lord, Jesus Christ is alive, present in the Holy Eucharist.

Oh, granny! You’re getting me fired up, now! :dancing: Praise God!

 

[grannymh]

I was reading a non-Catholic website that cites the 24th chapter of of St. Matthew for the following proposition:

How might one go about answering such an objection to Eucharistic Adoration? Thanks in advance.

Sincerely and respectfully,

SonofMonica

When the thread gets around to Eucharistic Adoration, as a lay founder of 24/7 Perpetual Eucharistic Adoration in our town, I will answer your specific questions regarding any objections. Most objections dissolve because of Transubstantiation.

In the meantime, SonofMonica, find a Church or Chapel with Eucharistic Adoration and go sit in the last row for at least 10 minutes. Listen to these words which Jesus spoke at the Last Supper: “I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.”

By the way, I am a “Monica” to one of my sons. I have now adopted you and will be praying for you at 2:00 AM, Tuesday, which is my time for Eucharistic Adoration.

Blessings,
granny

Jesus, present today in the Eucharist, is the same Jesus
Who, in the garden of His agony, asked,
“Could you not keep watch for one hour?” Mark 14: 32-42

---

 

[SonofMonica]

When the thread gets around to Eucharistic Adoration, as a lay founder of 24/7 Perpetual Eucharistic Adoration in our town, I will answer your specific questions regarding any objections. Most objections dissolve because of Transubstantiation.

In the meantime, SonofMonica, find a Church or Chapel with Eucharistic Adoration and go sit in the last row for at least 10 minutes. Listen to these words which Jesus spoke at the Last Supper: “I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.”

By the way, I am a “Monica” to one of my sons. I have now adopted you and will be praying for you at 2:00 AM, Tuesday, which is my time for Eucharistic Adoration.

Blessings,
granny

Jesus, present today in the Eucharist, is the same Jesus
Who, in the garden of His agony, asked,
“Could you not keep watch for one hour?” Mark 14: 32-42

---

 

[RosaryFan]

Thanks, that does help, but how do we get from the belief that it is Christ’s body and blood, to belief that it is the whole Christ–body, blood soul and divinity, such that it may be worshiped?

I think this Gospel of John just about says it all…

“Very truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Those who eat my flesh and drink my blood have eternal life, and I will raise them up on the last day; for my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink. Those who eat my flesh and drink my blood abide in me, and I in them…” (John 6:53)

 

[VociMike]

Thanks, that does help, but how do we get from the belief that it is Christ’s body and blood, to belief that it is the whole Christ–body, blood soul and divinity, such that it may be worshiped?

Because Jesus Christ is now whole and complete. His body and blood exist with his soul and divinity, not apart from them.

 

[SonofMonica]

Because Jesus Christ is now whole and complete. His body and blood exist with his soul and divinity, not apart from them.

Thanks, that helps too! Very concise and clear way of understanding concomitance or whatever it’s called.

 

[po18guy]

Ah, so sacramentally speaking, the bread is now the body only. But speaking in reality, Christ’s body is inseparable from his blood and the soul and the divinity. Okay, but if only the body is sacramentally present, then is it more correct to say that we are worshiping Christ’s body when we worship the Sacrament, but since his body is connected to his blood, soul and divinity, we are indirectly worshiping the whole Christ?

Christ is completely present in His Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity (CCC 1374) in both species of the Eucharist. Thus, you receive the fulness of Christ even though you may be allergic to wheat, or unable to consume alcohol.

 

[Verbum_Caro]

Because Jesus Christ is now whole and complete. His body and blood exist with his soul and divinity, not apart from them.

Thanks, that helps too! Very concise and clear way of understanding concomitance or whatever it’s called.

Yes, that is a very concise and helpful way of putting it, and it is exactly what Trent is getting at.

Note, though, that Mike says that Christ is now whole and complete. The Real Presence is Christ as He actually is. I think a conclusion that should be drawn from this is that at the Last Supper the Apostles did not receive Christ’s crucified and resurrected body – as that wasn’t the Body He had at that moment. Because of that, I would have to respectfully disagree with this part of FCEGM’s earlier post:

in the sacramental institution of the Eucharist the Apostles were given the fullness of the Crucified and Resurrected Flesh of Our Lord Christ under the appearances of bread and wine they received.

VC

 

[grannymh]

Yes, that is a very concise and helpful way of putting it, and it is exactly what Trent is getting at.
Note, though, that Mike says that Christ is now whole and complete. The Real Presence is Christ as He actually is. I think a conclusion that should be drawn from this is that at the Last Supper the Apostles did not receive Christ’s crucified and resurrected body – as that wasn’t the Body He had at that moment. Because of that, I would have to respectfully disagree with this part of FCEGM’s earlier post:

VC

Would you kindly give all the Scripture citations (including Pauls’) for all of the “conclusions”? Thank you.

 

[Verbum_Caro]

Would you kindly give all the Scripture citations (including Pauls’) for all of the “conclusions”? Thank you.

Hi grannymh,

I’m not sure if there are any scriptures that would directly speak to this point, other than the scriptures that indicate that Christ is really present in the Eucharist.

Did you have something else in mind?

Thanks,
VC

 

[grannymh]

Hi grannymh,

I’m not sure if there are any scriptures that would directly speak to this point, other than the scriptures that indicate that Christ is really present in the Eucharist.

Did you have something else in mind?

Thanks,
VC

Not really. I was concerned that I had missed some important Scripture. Otherwise, I consider the Last Supper as the Institution of the Eucharist, a one-time event. That is sufficient for me.

Blessings,
granny

The Holy Eucharist Is The Light, Strength, And Life Of Our Souls.

 

[Verbum_Caro]

grannymh,

Just to clarify, because my previous post might not have been as explicit as it could have been, when I mentioned the conclusion that the Apostles didn’t receive the crucified and resurrected Body of Christ as the Last Supper, it wasn’t to imply that they didn’t receive His Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity at the Last Supper – just that the Body they received was not a resurrected Body.

VC

 

[po18guy]

grannymh,

Just to clarify, because my previous post might not have been as explicit as it could have been, when I mentioned the conclusion that the Apostles didn’t receive the crucified and resurrected Body of Christ as the Last Supper, it wasn’t to imply that they didn’t receive His Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity at the Last Supper – just that the Body they received was not a resurrected Body.

VC

God, Who is outside of time, and Who instituted time to give meaning and regulation to the life of the human body, could give His resurrected body to man before it had occurred in earthly time. Christ has always been resurrected in eternity.

 

[grannymh]

grannymh,

Just to clarify, because my previous post might not have been as explicit as it could have been, when I mentioned the conclusion that the Apostles didn’t receive the crucified and resurrected Body of Christ as the Last Supper, it wasn’t to imply that they didn’t receive His Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity at the Last Supper – just that the Body they received was not a resurrected Body.

VC

Thanks for the clarification. When I learned Transubstantiation ages ago, it always meant that Jesus was truly present under the signs of bread and wine. It was a very simple truth.

Blessings for 2010
granny

 

[grace_singh]

Verbum Caro:

It really is His real body however, and so those things that are intrinsically linked with His Body are also present. Since Christ’s Body now has blood, His Blood is also present.

so why then did Jesus also offer up the cup, and say “this is My Blood…”?

should He not have then said of the bread “this is My Body which contains My Blood, which is shed…”?

Christ also commands us to eat the bread and drink the cup and remembrance of Him, and treats the bread as His Body and the cup as His Blood as two different yet related and neccesary things.