Eucharist

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Vico said:
Question 81. The use which Christ made of this sacrament at its institution
  1. Did Christ receive His own body and blood?
  2. Did He give it to Judas?
  3. What kind of body did He receive or give, namely, was it passible or impassible?
  4. What would have been the condition of Christ’s body under this sacrament, if it had been reserved or consecrated during the three days He lay dead?
newadvent.org/summa/4081.htm

For No. 3: Reply to Objection 1. Christ is said not to have given His mortal and passible * body at the supper, because He did not give it in mortal and passible fashion. But the Cross made His flesh adapted for eating, inasmuch as this sacrament represents Christ’s Passion.
  • passible means: capable of feeling or suffering.
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Ok I see it now BUT was Jesus able to hold His body and blood at the Last Supper because He is God AND because the laws of space and time don’t apply to Him?
 
Vico said:
In the transubstantiation, the appearance of bread and wine are not make-believe they are sustained in existence by divine power. It is a miracle which is supernatural.
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But did Jesus hold his body and blood because He’s God and because the laws of space and time don’t apply to him? This is what I read and am trying to find out if it’s true.
 
Don_Ruggero said:
We are speaking of the Summa Theologica. We are speaking of the Tertia Pars which follows the Prima Pars, the Prima Secundæ, and the Secunda Secundæ. It is question 81 under the Tertia pars.
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Father Don,
In Article 2 about Judas, the answer is that Judas was given the body. If Judas Iscariot is the sole apostle to be given the body one time only; and he never lives to participate in the ongoing life of the sacrament, does this signify that the institution of the Eucharist is unlike subsequent Eucharistic meals?
Also, I ask
In Matthew 9:15, in the question about Fasting, Jesus equates mourning with fasting.
Can this be interpreted 2 ways as relates to Question 81? 1) Their preparation was so complete that they ate just as he did, but had begun to keep the spirit of the fast and thus did not really accept the morsel save out of respect for his command. 2) Their preparation was too difficult for them, and having no idea what he meant, they failed to mourn as they should have and accepted it in the spirit of the Passover.
 
Faith1960 said:
But did Jesus hold his body and blood because He’s God and because the laws of space and time don’t apply to him? This is what I read and am trying to find out if it’s true.
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The person of Jesus Christ has both human and divine natures. It is true that the Trinity is not subject to the laws of creation and because the Trinity wills it, the miracle occurs. Now, what Aquinas states is that it is not the passable body of Christ that is present in the Eucharist, but the impassible body of Christ, under the appearances of bread and wine.
 
Vico said:
The person of Jesus Christ has both human and divine natures. It is true that the Trinity is not subject to the laws of creation and because the Trinity wills it, the miracle occurs. Now, what Aquinas states is that it is not the passable body of Christ that is present in the Eucharist, but the impassible body of Christ, under the appearances of bread and wine.
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So are you saying that Jesus could hold his body and blood because the laws of space and time don’t apply to him?
 
Faith1960 said:
So are you saying that Jesus could hold his body and blood because the laws of space and time don’t apply to him?
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The laws of nature apply to Jesus in his human nature of blood, body, and rational soul, but by the divine nature, transubstantiation can occur, which is supernatural. Of course we know of many miraculous events. What is impossible for man is possible for God.
 
Faith1960 said:
So are you saying that Jesus could hold his body and blood because the laws of space and time don’t apply to him?
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If time and space don’t apply to him, why when they sought to attack him does the Evangelist say his time had not yet come? I think I know where you are going with your question. He walked on water, and later passed through a wall after his resurrection. He also felt power leave him when jostled in the crowd by the woman with a hemorrage.
Your theory as an appeal to messianic magic would get none other than a paltry response from me because it can be applied to any of his deeds as an explanation for his power, a power which with the exception of the forgiveness of sins on earth does not come from the Son of Man but from His faith in God.
 
Vico said:
The laws of nature apply to Jesus in his human nature of blood, body, and rational soul, but by the divine nature, transubstantiation can occur, which is supernatural. Of course we know of many miraculous events. What is impossible for man is possible for God.
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I still don’t get it. Can you explain further?
 
Vico said:
The laws of nature apply to Jesus in his human nature of blood, body, and rational soul, but by the divine nature, transubstantiation can occur, which is supernatural. Of course we know of many miraculous events. What is impossible for man is possible for God.
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Does consecration of the Eucharist happen by the power of Jesus or the Holy Spirit?
 
Faith1960 said:
Does consecration of the Eucharist happen by the power of Jesus or the Holy Spirit?
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Christ’s humanity has no other subject than the divine person of the Son of God, who assumed it. Catechism of the Catholic Church 1375 in teaching about transubstantiation has:

… the Church Fathers strongly affirmed the faith of the Church in the efficacy of the Word of Christ and of the action of the Holy Spirit to bring about this conversion.St. John Chrysostom declares:

It is not man that causes the things offered to become the Body and Blood of Christ, but he who was crucified for us, Christ himself. the priest, in the role of Christ, pronounces these words, but their power and grace are God’s. This is my body, he says. This word transforms the things offered. 202…​
 
Vico said:
Christ’s humanity has no other subject than the divine person of the Son of God, who assumed it. Catechism of the Catholic Church 1375 in teaching about transubstantiation has:

… the Church Fathers strongly affirmed the faith of the Church in the efficacy of the Word of Christ and of the action of the Holy Spirit to bring about this conversion.St. John Chrysostom declares:

It is not man that causes the things offered to become the Body and Blood of Christ, but he who was crucified for us, Christ himself. the priest, in the role of Christ, pronounces these words, but their power and grace are God’s. This is my body, he says. This word transforms the things offered. 202…​
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So it’s Jesus or God who has that power to changed the bread and wine into His body and blood?
 
Faith1960 said:
So it’s Jesus or God who has that power to changed the bread and wine into His body and blood?
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Yes, and the Trinity has only one will. The person of Jesus is both God and Man, in two natures, but it is the divine power that effects transubstantiation…
 
Vico said:
Yes, and the Trinity has only one will. The person of Jesus is both God and Man, in two natures, but it is the divine power that effects transubstantiation…
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What do you mean the Trinity has only one will?
 
Faith1960 said:
Could you explain further?
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God is simple (without composition) and the Trinity of persons interpenetrate one another, with one mind and will. The person of the Son assumed the created human body of Jesus Christ which includes a rational human soul, so has both human and divine natures with one human will and one divine will.
 
The Eucharistic life asserts for us a possibility to understand eternal love.
 
Faith1960 said:
At the last Supper did Jesus hold His own glorified body in His hands, in the Eucharist, or not? I read an old post about this and one poster said that since Jesus lives out of time and space, He did but I read something from St. Thomas Aquinus who said otherwise. Who’s right?
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Jesus held the Holy Spirit in his hands. The bread is transubstantiated into the Holy Spirit. However, when you receive communion of the Holy Spirit, you receive all three persons of the Trinity.

The Holy Spirit is the life shared by Father and Son. Where one is there are the other two. If Jesus holds the bread within his hands and declares it his body then we know by the Word he speaks, which are Spirit and Life, the bread in fact becomes his body. We know this because he is in perfect union with the Holy Spirit, He is the Holy Spirit. God is all three persons of the Trinity in Unity. The Father is the Son and the Holy Spirit. The Son is the Father and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is both Father and Son’s Unity in Truth.

The Holy Spirit is incorporeal. When Jesus says, this is my body…he transubstantiates this body into the incorporeal Holy Spirit. However, he is still present within the bread because of his unity with the Father and Holy Spirit. The bread becomes one God in union with the body. This unity is a mystery of Jesus. How can bread become his body? Because he speaks the Word of God to the bread, His word is spirit and life; and therefore, his authority to command bread be turned into his body is actual because of his Holy Spirit which is the Spirit of Life.
 
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