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Faith1960
Guest
Can you explain it in simpler terms?
How could He have held His own body? Because He’s out of space and time?
- Status
How could He have held His own body? Because He’s out of space and time?
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Faith1960
Guest
Ok, Jesus is now glorified and we receive the glorified Jesus in the Eucharist.
When Jesus instituted the Eucharist at the Last Supper He wasn’t glorified yet. So how could He be holding His own flesh and blood? Because He’s outside time and space or what?
I don’t know how else to ask it.
When Jesus instituted the Eucharist at the Last Supper He wasn’t glorified yet. So how could He be holding His own flesh and blood? Because He’s outside time and space or what?
I don’t know how else to ask it.
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Faith1960
Guest
“Not in the same way bodies are present in a given place”. That tells me it’s because He’s outside time and space. No?
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Faith1960
Guest
Or a different realm…
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Sacred_Heart_1
Guest
God is omnipresent, meaning that he has knowledge and power over everything. The bread is just an example of his omnipresence, something that we can attain through consumption of the bread–His Holy Spirit.Can you explain it in simpler terms?
How could He have held His own body? Because He’s out of space and time?
In the trinity, Jesus is part of the Unity of the Holy Spirit, His presence within the Holy Spirit cannot be taken away. Father and Son are in unity of the Holy Spirit. There are three divine person’s within the trinity–Father Son and Holy Spirit. Jesus is all three persons–Father Son and Holy Spirit.
The bread becomes in union with the Holy Spirit, transforming the species into something which has body (the bread) and the Spirit. Since Jesus is the Holy Spirit in unity with the Father, Jesus offers his body and spirit as an offering of bread. The life within Jesus is now present within the bread because as we know his Word is life and spirit. Jesus merely has to speak of the bread being his body to transubstantiate the bread into a vessel for the Holy Spirit. You can only understand this if you believe that Jesus speaks his Word with authority and power.
The bread becomes the fullness of Truth, Jesus is the fullness of Truth; and therefore, when he speaks his word, which is life and spirit, the Holy Spirit becomes present within the bread. You can only understand this if you believe Jesus’ word is spoken in authority and power.
God is infinite in all ways. He can hold his body and say it is his presence and be speaking the truth. Nothing is impossible to God. Being out of space and time has nothing to do with it. Jesus manifested himself in the flesh, the word became God and dwelt amongst men. God can be in space and time and out of space and time. Everywhere he is God.
Jesus instituted the Eucharist in order that we, as human beings, would have a visible sign of his presence. The bread alone is nothing. When God speaks of the bread being his body the bread becomes his fullness of Spirit. God can in fact hold his body because he in fact is God and can do all things. Jesus offers his body in bread so that we can partake with his Spirit, in unity with the Holy Ghost.
If Jesus did not offer a visible sign of his presence within the bread then there would be no way for a soul to commune with the Spirit. It becomes a way for people to understand the unity that Father and Son are.
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Vico
Guest
Since common language usage is that physical reality is corporeal reality most would think that physical presence of Christ, the Real Presence, as corporeal presence. But the risen Lord cannot be limited to the fallen world, so the presence is not “in the same way that bodies are present in a given place”.
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Sacred_Heart_1
Guest
God is in time and out of time. He is omnipresent. Everywhere he is God. Whether upon his throne or on earth or in hell. He is God. Time and space don’t matter to him. He is the Holy Spirit which has no form or shape, yet is all things.
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Faith1960
Guest
Maybe I’m slow but I still don’t get it. 
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Faith1960
Guest
Vico, do you agree with this?
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Vico
Guest
Partly.
The person of the Son is not the person of the Holy Spirit, nor the person of the Father, but they are consubstantial. They are in each other.
Modern Catholic Dictionary, Term: Perichoresis
Definition
The penetration and indwelling of the three divine persons reciprocally in one another. In the Greek conception of the Trinity there is an emphasis on the mutual penetration of the three persons, thus bringing out the unity of the divine essence. In the Latin idea called circumincession the stress is more on the internal processions of the three divine persons. In both traditions, however, the fundamental basis of the Trinitarian perichoresis is the one essence of the three persons in God. The term is also applied to the close union of the two natures in Christ. Although the power that unites the two natures proceeds exclusively from Christ’s divinity, the result is a most intimate coalescence. The Godhead, which itself is impenetrable, penetrates the humanity, which is thereby deified without ceasing to be perfectly human.
The Athanesian Creed has:
“So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God.”
I would say that the Eucharist is the*** body, blood, soul, and divinity***, that is, the whole Christ, so there is a “change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body of Christ our Lord and of the whole substance of the wine into the substance of his blood.” - Catechism 1376
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Faith1960
Guest
How could He hold Himself (in the Eucharist) in His own hands?
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Faith1960
Guest
Is it because since He’s God, He can be two places at once?
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Sacred_Heart_1
Guest
They’re the same Holy Spirit. nothing of Father Son or Holy Spirit is lacking in any of the three divine persons. They each are the fullness of God–that’s what I mean when I say the Father is the Son and Holy Spirit, the Son is the Father and the Holy Spirit,…All are the fullness of the Spirit of Truth. The Son has everything of the Father and Father is seen through the Son. They may be three divine persons but rather they’re three divine “triplets” in spirit.
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Sacred_Heart_1
Guest
God is everywhere at once.
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Vico
Guest
The fullness of God means the fullness of Godhead, which essentially includes the relations of opposition which are the three persons, however, we differentiate the persons, so the person of the Father is not the person of the Son nor the person of the Holy Spirit, etc., for each. In the Godhead, essence, will, and action are one.
As the Council of Florence, Session 6 — 6 July 1439, states, for example:
And since the Father gave to his only-begotten Son in begetting him everything the Father has, except to be the Father, so the Son has eternally from the Father, by whom he was eternally begotten, this also, namely that the holy Spirit proceeds from the Son.
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Vico
Guest
The whole Christ is the Eucharist, which is held by the physical form of Jesus, but the whole Christ is not limited to that one appearance of bread (or wine). Indeed, the whole Christ cannot be limited.
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Faith1960
Guest
So Jesus can be in many places at once? Is that what you’re saying?
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Vico
Guest
There is a difference between the non-resurrected and the resurrected body. The normal corporeal presence is different than that of the resurrected presence.
Like the miracle of the loaves, the Eucharist is inexhaustible. "The Lamb of God is broken and distributed; broken but not divided; ever eaten yet never consumed, but sanctifying those who partake of Him.”
The resurrected body of Jesus is like the description in 1 Corinthians 15:44: “It is sown a corruptible body, it shall rise a spiritual,”
Our Resurrected Lord is able to bi-locate and pass through walls, and travel great distances quickly.
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Faith1960
Guest
But the non resurrected Jesus couldn’t? Then we’re back to how was He able to hold Himself in the Eucharist? He obviously could be two places at once if He was standing or sitting there and holding His body in the Eucharist. My head is spinning here.
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Vico
Guest
Remember what H.H. Pope Paul VI said: “… after the change of the substance or nature of the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ, nothing remains of the bread and wine but the appearances, under which Christ, whole and entire, in His physical “reality” is bodily present, although not in the same way that bodies are present in a given place.”
So Jesus Christ,
bodily present in the same way that bodies are present in a given place,
holds the Eucharist,
bodily present, not in the same way that bodies are present in a given place.
- Status