Eucharistic Adoration in the East

[mardukm]

It is not a good response, it is a great response! If we are to worship Christ wherever his presence is, why not in other places where He says He is? Also, don’t we believe that God is everywhere and in everything? So why stop at the Eucharist? Actually, it is an Orthodox teaching that we live this way, worshiping God and praying to Him every minute and every second of our lives and with every breath we take.

That’s exactly what the Protestants said.:nope:

I worship Him, but again the Eucharist is given for us to eat and drink for the remission of sins and life everlasting.

And the Latins don’t do the same? Here again, you seem to misunderstand the Latin perspective. The Eucharist is ONE, anywhere it is, it is the same ONE Christ. Whether Latins adore him at the Eucharistic chapel, or consume Him at the Eucharistic table, it is the same, ONE Christ. In the Latin teaching, you can’t separate them as if they are two different things. So just because they adore Him in the Eucharistic chapel does not mean they are not consuming Him at the Eucharistic table. On this premise, you are the one categorizing, and being more Latin than the Latins.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[lssanjose]

What doesn’t make sense is your analogy. Worshiping and adoring Christ is to you like burning $100 bills? Considering what Christ said about Mary to her sister Martha and about the woman who washed his feet with her tears, I’d say he disagrees.

And no- it’s not a good response. If you equate the Eucharistic presence with all other ways that God is present (everywhere, as you said), then why don’t you also worship him and eat him in your breakfast? We could go all day with this, but what’s the point? Every Apostolic Christian who is not a heretic believes that Christ’s presence in the Eucharist is quite literal and unique, so there’s no point in having this argument.

It’s not about worshiping Christ itself, but doing so in the proper context. The Eucharist is a gift/sacrifice given onto God, with the original intention of eating it, for the remission of sins; healing of soul and body. That’s why Orthodoxy/Byzantine Catholics don’t have Eucharistic Adoration, within their tradition. Also, implicitly, it connotes a limited view of God’s place in everyday life.

 

[mardukm]

In this case you are putting words into my mouth. I don’t know how else to explain this. The Eucharist is given to us for a purpose. Jesus already guaranteed his presence when we gather to worship. The Eucharist is for our salvation, for the remission of sins and eternal life. To use it for anything other than what God intended, well, don’t we always say we shouldn’t use things for purposes other than what God intended? I don’t know why you think I lack the appreciation. Can I only have the appreciation if I agree with how you view it?

Then you need to stop with these very poor analogies. Your statement (highlighted above) was sufficient.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[lssanjose]

That’s exactly what the Protestants said.:nope:

And the Latins don’t do the same? Here again, you seem to misunderstand the Latin perspective. The Eucharist is ONE, anywhere it is, it is the same ONE Christ. Whether Latins adore him at the Eucharistic chapel, or consume Him at the Eucharistic table, it is the same, ONE Christ. In the Latin teaching, you can’t separate them as if they are two different things. So just because they adore Him in the Eucharistic chapel does not mean they are not consuming Him at the Eucharistic table. On this premise, you are the one categorizing, and being more Latin than the Latins.

Blessings,
Marduk

And we wonder why Protestants flock to Orthodoxy sooner (look at Evangelical Orthodox Church).

It’s not a matter of what the Eucharist is or not, but in what context is it being used.

 

[Marybeloved]

It’s not about worshiping Christ itself, but doing so in the proper context. The Eucharist is a gift/sacrifice given onto God, with the original intention of eating it, for the remission of sins; healing of soul and body. That’s why Orthodoxy/Byzantine Catholics don’t have Eucharistic Adoration, within their tradition. Also, implicitly, it connotes a limited view of God’s place in everyday life.

I think you are the one with the limited view. Are those purposes you mentioned missing, lacking or even unemphasized or de-emphasized in the West by Eucharistic adoration? So why act as if having adoration limits the others?

 

[mardukm]

And we wonder why Protestants flock to Orthodoxy sooner (look at Evangelical Orthodox Church).

It’s not a matter of what the Eucharist is or not, but in what context is it being used.

There’s a deeper Mystery, I think, to the Eucharist. I actually think the Latins have come to express that deeper Mystery better than the Easterns or Orientals in Eucharistic Adoration (of course, I think there are some things that I think the Easterns express better than the Latins, and some things I think Orientals express better than Easterns or Latins ). I’m just glad to be in a Church that can appreciate all the varied expressions of the one, true Faith.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[Marybeloved]

And we wonder why Protestants flock to Orthodoxy sooner (look at Evangelical Orthodox Church).

It’s not a matter of what the Eucharist is or not, but in what context is it being used.

‘‘It’’ is not being used- He is being worshiped and adored. From what I gather, every protestant coming into the church who believes in the real presence absolutely loves Eucharistic adoration! They may complain about the Rosary and Marian devotions, even about the way the mass is conducted- but I’m yet to meet or hear of ONE who complains of adoring Christ in the Eucharist.

 

[lssanjose]

I think you are the one with the limited view. Are those purposes you mentioned missing, lacking or even unemphasized or de-emphasized in the West by Eucharistic adoration? So why act as if having adoration limits the others?

I asked a friend what one does during Eucharistic adoration. His response was: speak to God, in prayer. But, can’t I do something similar, but through an icon?

 

[lssanjose]

‘‘It’’ is not being used- He is being worshiped and adored. From what I gather, every protestant coming into the church who believes in the real presence absolutely loves Eucharistic adoration! They may complain about the Rosary and Marian devotions, even about the way the mass is conducted- but I’m yet to meet or hear of ONE who complains of adoring Christ in the Eucharist.

But, see, there can be issues. I’m not saying there are, but there can be, by this approach. Take it, eat it, were His commands, for the remission of sins, no?

 

[mardukm]

To help Easterns and Orientals understand Eucharistic Adoration, perhaps this mental exercise will help.

Personally, I visit a Eucharistic Adoration chapel once a week here in the Philippines. I simply imagine that I am one of the many who fall down and worship the Lamb before the altar of God as described in the book of Revelation. Just remember that the Lamb worshipped in the Eucharistic Adoration chapel is the SAME Lamb Who is consumed at the Eucharistic table.

Just try not to separate in your minds the worship during Eucharistic Adoration from the consummation of the Lamb at the Eucharistic table. It should all be seen as one act of worship of the one Lamb.

Hope that helps.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[Marybeloved]

I asked a friend what one does during Eucharistic adoration. His response was: speak to God, in prayer. But, can’t I do something similar, but through an icon?

You can of course, (Though clearly an icon is not the Eucharist), but why complain that a Latin Catholic is adoring Christ in the Eucharist? Simply because it’s not Eastern?

 

[tdgesq]

The Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom.

Priest (While the Cherubic Hymn is being sung, the priest prays in a low voice):
No one bound by worldly desires and pleasures is worthy to approach, draw near or minister to You, the King of glory. To serve You is great and awesome even for the heavenly powers. But because of Your ineffable and immeasurable love for us, You became man without alteration or change. You have served as our High Priest, and as Lord of all, and have entrusted to us the celebration of this liturgical sacrifice without the shedding of blood. For You alone, Lord our God, rule over all things in heaven and on earth. You are seated on the throne of the Cherubim, the Lord of the Seraphim and the King of Israel. You alone are holy and dwell among Your saints. You alone are good and ready to hear. Therefore, I implore You, look upon me, Your sinful and unworthy servant, and cleanse my soul and heart from evil consciousness. Enable me by the power of Your Holy Spirit so that, vested with the grace of priesthood, I may stand before Your holy Table and celebrate the mystery of Your holy and pure Body and Your precious Blood. To You I come with bowed head and pray: do not turn Your face away from me or reject me from among Your children, but make me, Your sinful and unworthy servant, worthy to offer to You these gifts.For You, Christ our God, are the Offerer and the Offered, the One who receives and is distributed, and to You we give glory, together with Your eternal Father and Your holy, good and life giving Spirit, now and forever and to the ages of ages. Amen.

Priest (in a low voice):
Lord Jesus Christ, our God, hear us from Your holy dwelling place and from the glorious throne of Your kingdom. You are enthroned on high with the Father and are also invisibly present among us. Come and sanctify us, and let Your pure Body and precious Blood be given to us by Your mighty hand and through us to all Your people.

(The Communion Prayers are recited silently by those prepared to receive the holy Mysteries.)

People:
I believe and confess, Lord, that You are truly the Christ, the Son of the living God, who came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the first. I also believe that this is truly Your pure Body and that this is truly Your precious Blood. Therefore, I pray to You, have mercy upon me, and forgive my transgressions, voluntary and involuntary, in word and deed, known and unknown. And make me worthy without condemnation to partake of Your pure Mysteries for the forgiveness of sins and for life eternal. Amen.

How shall I, who am unworthy, enter into the splendor of Your saints? If I dare to enter into the bridal chamber, my clothing will accuse me, since it is not a wedding garment; and being bound up, I shall be cast out by the angels. In Your love, Lord, cleanse my soul and save me.

Loving Master, Lord Jesus Christ, my God, let not these holy Gifts be to my condemnation because of my unworthiness, but for the cleansing and sanctification of soul and body and the pledge of the future life and kingdom. It is good for me to cling to God and to place in Him the hope of my salvation.

Receive me today, Son of God, as a partaker of Your mystical Supper. I will not reveal Your mystery to Your adversaries. Nor will I give You a kiss as did Judas. But as the thief I confess to You: Lord, remember me in Your kingdom.

(The priest proceeds to receive holy Communion.)

Priest (in a low voice):
Behold, I approach Christ, our immortal King and God.

The precious and most holy Body of our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ is given to me (Name) the priest, for the forgiveness of my sins and eternal life.

(He then partakes of the sacred Bread.)

 

[lssanjose]

To help Easterns and Orientals understand Eucharistic Adoration, perhaps this mental exercise will help.

Personally, I visit a Eucharistic Adoration chapel once a week here in the Philippines. ** I simply imagine that I am one of the many who fall down and worship the Lamb before the altar of God as described in the book of Revelation. Just remember that the Lamb worshipped in the Eucharistic Adoration chapel is the SAME Lamb Who is consumed at the Eucharistic table.**

Just try not to separate in your minds the worship during Eucharistic Adoration from the consummation of the Lamb at the Eucharistic table. It should all be seen as one act of worship of the one Lamb.

Hope that helps.

Blessings,
Marduk

That’s one of the points of contention, within Orthodoxy. Part of their spirituality doesn’t call for imagination, or contemplation.

I was perusing this, and other sites; and the Liturgy of Pre-Sanctified Gifts were mentioned in past threads. This is as close to Eucharistic Adoration gets, in the Byzantine tradition.

 

[lssanjose]

You can of course, (Though clearly an icon is not the Eucharist), but why complain that a Latin Catholic is adoring Christ in the Eucharist? Simply because it’s not Eastern?

No, it’s not a matter of East vs. West. It’s a matter of contemplation, or its potential dangers vs. the sense of being united in Christ, in the heart. I hate doing constant plugging, but I do recommend Bread & Water, Wine & Oil. Particularly, it has a great opening section on the Mind, and Heart; their divorce from the fall; and why the heart is more important than the mind. This helped me understand why Orthodoxy has contentions with scholasticism.

 

[Marybeloved]

But, see, there can be issues. I’m not saying there are, but there can be, by this approach. Take it, eat it, were His commands, for the remission of sins, no?

And the Latins don’t? The reason that there are no issues in actuality that you imagine would be, is that quite simply, the Eucharist is Christ- not some symbol. Most people including Protestants are quite simple. Once they believe that the Eucharist is Christ, they have zero qualms about worshiping him- seriously, who would complain about adoring Christ himself the same way that Mary and others did in the Gospels?

 

[mardukm]

You can of course, (Though clearly an icon is not the Eucharist), but why complain that a Latin Catholic is adoring Christ in the Eucharist? Simply because it’s not Eastern?

I don’t think brother Issanjose is expressing complaint, so much as puzzlement. Brother ConstantineTG is the one complaining (normally ).

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[Marybeloved]

No, it’s not a matter of East vs. West. It’s a matter of contemplation, or its potential dangers vs. the sense of being united in Christ, in the heart. I hate doing constant plugging, but I do recommend Bread & Water, Wine & Oil. Particularly, it has a great opening section on the Mind, and Heart; their divorce from the fall; and why the heart is more important than the mind. This helped me understand why Orthodoxy has contentions with scholasticism.

What has any of that got to do with Eucharistic adoration? I have to ask again- have you ever really read any spiritual books of the Latin saints? I wish you would place as much emphasis on that as you do on Eastern books. Eucharistic adoration is all about the heart- not the mind. Don’t you know about the sacred heart devotions and their connection to Eucharistic adoration?

 

[lssanjose]

And the Latins don’t? The reason that there are no issues in actuality that you imagine would be, is that quite simply, the Eucharist is Christ- not some symbol. Most people including Protestants are quite simple. Once they believe that the Eucharist is Christ, they have zero qualms about worshiping him- seriously, who would complain about adoring Christ himself the same way that Mary and others did in the Gospels?

No qualms about worshiping, here. But, if I can worship God in prayer (like I do, with the Byzantine Daily Office); and I do partake in the Eucharist, weekly); say the Jesus Prayer; I don’t see why Eucharistic Adoration is THAT necessary. Secondly, from my perusing these fora, people have said Eucharistic Adoration was a recent innovation, due to infrequent consumption.

 

[mardukm]

That’s one of the points of contention, within Orthodoxy. Part of their spirituality doesn’t call for imagination, or contemplation.

I was perusing this, and other sites; and the Liturgy of Pre-Sanctified Gifts were mentioned in past threads. This is as close to Eucharistic Adoration gets, in the Byzantine tradition.

I made the suggestion to help you understand. There is a point when you enter the Presence at the Eucharistic chapel that you don’t even need to imagine or contemplate - you just know you are in the Real Presence of the Christ amidst the Saints and Angels, together with them worshipping Him. That’s the reality of it.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[mardukm]

I don’t see why Eucharistic Adoration is THAT necessary. Secondly, from my perusing these fora, people have said Eucharistic Adoration was a recent innovation, due to infrequent consumption.

I don’t know why you bring up necessity here. Can you explain? I wasn’t aware that Eucharistic Adoration is required of any Catholic on pain of anathema or interdict.

Blessings,
Marduk