Eucharistic Adoration in the East

[lssanjose]

What has any of that got to do with Eucharistic adoration? I have to ask again- have you ever really read any spiritual books of the Latin saints? I wish you would place as much emphasis on that as you do on Eastern books. Eucharistic adoration is all about the heart- not the mind. Don’t you know about the sacred heart devotions and their connection to Eucharistic adoration?

Sacred Heart devotions aren’t what I’m talking about. I’m talking about quieting the mind. As you suggest I read Latin saints, I suggest you do the same for Byzantine/Orthodox Saints.

 

[lssanjose]

I don’t know why you bring up necessity here. Can you explain? I wasn’t aware that Eucharistic Adoration is required of any Catholic on pain of anathema or interdict.

Blessings,
Marduk

I guess I shouldn’t have put it in such away. But, I’m saying my personal prayer rule should achieve the same ends, no? Without needing to compartmentalize Christ?

 

[lssanjose]

I made the suggestion to help you understand. There is a point when you enter the Presence at the Eucharistic chapel that you don’t even need to imagine or contemplate - you just know you are in the Real Presence of the Christ amidst the Saints and Angels, together with them worshipping Him. That’s the reality of it.

Blessings,
Marduk

I can go with this, brother Marduk. Like you said, earlier, I just approach it with puzzlement.

 

[Marybeloved]

No qualms about worshiping, here. But, if I can worship God in prayer (like I do, with the Byzantine Daily Office); and I do partake in the Eucharist, weekly); say the Jesus Prayer; I don’t see why Eucharistic Adoration is THAT necessary. Secondly, from my perusing these fora, people have said Eucharistic Adoration was a recent innovation, due to infrequent consumption.

Many people would say so about icons- I don’t remember reading about their use in the church of the New Testament. In any case, the Eucharist is Christ- that’s the whole point. If you believe that, I don’t see how you could criticize any person falling on his face to worship him. I also don’t believe I need an icon to pray, or a methodology of prayer like involved in the Jesus prayer- I don’t have a need to criticize them either, just because they are not Latin.

 

[lssanjose]

Many people would say so about icons- I don’t remember reading about their use in the church of the New Testament. In any case, the Eucharist is Christ- that’s the whole point. If you believe that, I don’t see how you could criticize any person falling on his face to worship him. I also don’t believe I need an icon to pray, or a methodology of prayer like involved in the Jesus prayer- I don’t have a need to criticize them either, just because they are not Latin.

Again it goes back to emphasis. The ethos is gravely different, as I’m learning (as I go). I’m not criticizing anything. I’m just pointing out points of concern. I don’t like having to, but I suppose, I can put a giant preface to each of my posts, to ensure I don’t offend certain sensibilities.

 

[mardukm]

I guess I shouldn’t have put it in such away. But, I’m saying my personal prayer rule should achieve the same ends, no?

Yes it should, but why should personal prayer be restricted to only a few forms? Why can’t Eucharistic Adoration be one of them? In any case, the primary purpose of Eucharistic Adoration is to worship our Lord.

Without needing to compartmentalize Christ?

Can you explain this more explicitly? I mean, how does Eucharistic Adoration compartmentalize Christ? I mean the Real Presence at the Eucharistic table is the same Real Presence at the Eucharistic chapel, the same all over the world. I hate to keep saying this, but you do know that Protestants make the same argument against the Eucharist, right? I mean, the idea that Christ is being compartmentalized? I never understood the basis for their statements, just as I don’t understand the basis for yours, so please explain.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[Marybeloved]

Sacred Heart devotions aren’t what I’m talking about. I’m talking about quieting the mind. As you suggest I read Latin saints, I suggest you do the same for Byzantine/Orthodox Saints.

You are talking about mind and heart- the sacred heart was about Christ telling st. Margarate Mary to let her heart burn with the love that burns in his own heart from the terbanacle. I don’t need to read Eastern saints because I’m not trying to explain eastern spirituality here. (I do plan on reading them though). You are the one who makes claims about western spirituality and approaches- you can’t do that if you don’t even know what it is.

About the mind. Latin approach in spirituality teaches that we are not to forcefully force our minds into a blank state- Contemplation is a work of God that he gives, you don’t acquire it through technique. It’s not about the mind, but the whole soul, intellect (mind) and will (heart) both are gradually purified and united with the Divinity.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Marduk, if you really think I am wrong and you are right, maybe perhaps offer some substance to your responses other than just throwing ad hominem after ad hominem. Ad homs are typically the mark of one who is stubborn but has nothing to say.

 

[lssanjose]

Yes it should, but why should personal prayer be restricted to only a few forms? Why can’t Eucharistic Adoration be one of them? In any case, the primary purpose of Eucharistic Adoration is to worship our Lord.

Can you explain this more explicitly? I mean, how does Eucharistic Adoration compartmentalize Christ? I mean the Real Presence at the Eucharistic table is the same Real Presence at the Eucharistic chapel, the same all over the world. I hate to keep saying this, but you do know that Protestants make the same argument against the Eucharist, right? I mean, the idea that Christ is being compartmentalized? I never understood the basis for their statements, just as I don’t understand the basis for yours, so please explain.

Blessings,
Marduk

I’m not restricting my worship, by any means, brother. I’ll digress somewhat, but I’ll try to keep it relevant to the Eucharistic Adoration. Eucharistic Adoration is very personal, but it’s done in a corporate setting. It doesn’t make sense, to me anyways, to do something personal, in such a place. People can communicate with God, anyway they want, but as long as people are present, doesn’t it make sense to do something more communal?

I thought we were to be in communion with each other. I can see myself going to a Rosary session, as opposed to an Adoration. The reason why is I pray the Rosary with fellow believers. We pray in communion with each other. Adoration is a different story: it’s very personal, but it’s done in a corporate setting.

 

[lssanjose]

You are talking about mind and heart- the sacred heart was about Christ telling st. Margarate Mary to let her heart burn with the love that burns in his own heart from the terbanacle. I don’t need to read Eastern saints because I’m not trying to explain eastern spirituality here. (I do plan on reading them though). You are the one who makes claims about western spirituality and approaches- you can’t do that if you don’t even know what it is.

About the mind. Latin approach in spirituality teaches that we are not to forcefully force our minds into a blank state- Contemplation is a work of God that he gives, you don’t acquire it through technique. It’s not about the mind, but the whole soul, intellect (mind) and will (heart) both are gradually purified and united with the Divinity.

This where Eastern differs from West. It’s about bringing one’s attentiveness to the present time. I find it funny how you’re on here not trying to explain Eastern spirituality which was the original inquiry of the OP.

 

[Marybeloved]

I’m not restricting my worship, by any means, brother. I’ll digress somewhat, but I’ll try to keep it relevant to the Eucharistic Adoration. Eucharistic Adoration is very personal, but it’s done in a corporate setting. It doesn’t make sense, to me anyways, to do something personal, in such a place. People can communicate with God, anyway they want, but as long as people are present, doesn’t it make sense to do something more communal?

I thought we were to be in communion with each other. I can see myself going to a Rosary session, as opposed to an Adoration. The reason why is I pray the Rosary with fellow believers. We pray in communion with each other. Adoration is a different story: it’s very personal, but it’s done in a corporate setting.

But just think of the woman who washed Christ’s feet with her tears- That was thoroughly personal- was the setting personal or corporate? When Mary sat at his feet in Lazarus’ home, they were not alone. Yet her prayer was personal, don’t you think? What I love most about the Adoration is precisely this aspect you describe here. To us, meeting Christ is always a personal affair, even when it’s corporate- so we don’t experience these problems about it.

 

[mardukm]

Marduk, if you really think I am wrong and you are right, maybe perhaps offer some substance to your responses other than just throwing ad hominem after ad hominem.

What ad hominem?

Ad homs are typically the mark of one who is stubborn but has nothing to say.

Or maybe the one who keeps throwing out the accusation doesn’t have any proper response?

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[Marybeloved]

This where Eastern differs from West. It’s about bringing one’s attentiveness to the present time. I find it funny how you’re on here not trying to explain Eastern spirituality which was the original inquiry of the OP.

I came here to correct the many false statements made here about the West- would you prefer I don’t? Why?Just because the statements are made in an Eastern forum doesn’t mean they should not be corrected when they are false, sorry to disappoint you there.

Also, I’m aware about the difference you’re speaking of (mental images) and have made statements about that in this very forum in the past. Icons are as legitimate before the mind as they are before our eyes at prayer. In the West, the imageless prayer comes through a gradual progress in prayer that ends in the prayer of union- it’s never forced.

 

[TrueLight]

This where Eastern differs from West. It’s about bringing one’s attentiveness to the present time. I find it funny how you’re on here not trying to explain Eastern spirituality which was the original inquiry of the OP.

I took a break from this thread because I was getting quite frustrated, but let me say that criticizing Latin spirituality or bringing up “points of concern” was not the plan either.

Even though I am new to Catholicism, I have read enough books on spirituality to know that you haven’t really put any time into learning about Latin spirituality or the meaning of contemplation. If you had, you would see similarities. We may all take different approaches, but we reach the same truth. At least it should be that way.

I just don’t understand why you need to imply that Eucharistic adoration doesn’t make sense or that it is compartmentalization. Does any Latin say that is the only way we are to pray? We don’t go around asking what is the point of the Jesus prayer do we?

Eucharistic Adoration? That’s how we do.

You do you.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I took a break from this thread because I was getting quite frustrated, but let me say that criticizing Latin spirituality or bringing up “points of concerns” was not the plan either.

I just don’t understand why you need to imply that Eucharistic adoration doesn’t make sense.

That’s how we do.

You do you.

The problem is when we explain our side, people think its a jab at their side. How can we be honest with our position then? And the discussion takes a futher dive when after we first explain our side in charity, then the other side becomes overtly defensive of their side. When we ask questions, we should be ready for the fact that the answers may not be what we expect them to be.

 

[TrueLight]

I came here to correct the many false statements made here about the West- would you prefer I don’t? Why?Just because the statements are made in an Eastern forum doesn’t mean they should not be corrected when they are false, sorry to disappoint you there.

 

[TrueLight]

The problem is when we explain our side, people think its a jab at their side. How can we be honest with our position then? And the discussion takes a futher dive when after we first explain our side in charity, then the other side becomes overtly defensive of their side. When we ask questions, we should be ready for the fact that the answers may not be what we expect them to be.

There is a difference between explaining one’s side and subtly, or not so subtly, implying that someone’s way is inferior or outright false.

 

[Marybeloved]

I took a break from this thread because I was getting quite frustrated, but let me say that criticizing Latin spirituality or bringing up “points of concern” was not the plan either.

Even though I am new to Catholicism, I have read enough books on spirituality to know that you haven’t really put any time into learning about Latin spirituality or the meaning of contemplation. If you had, you would see similarities. We may all take different approaches, but we reach the same truth. At least it should be that way.

I just don’t understand why you need to imply that Eucharistic adoration doesn’t make sense or that it is compartmentalization. Does any Latin say that is the only way we are to pray? We don’t go around asking what is the point of the Jesus prayer do we?

Eucharistic Adoration? That’s how we do.

You do you.

 

[ConstantineTG]

There is a difference between explaining one’s side and subtly, or not so subtly, implying that someone’s way is inferior or outright false.

Well, like I said, it hardly starts that way. The problem is it devolves into that. Here is a sample:

A: Do you do Eucharistic adoration?
B: No
A: Why not?
B: Well, it is because of this…
A: Well, we do it because of this.
B: Yeah, but we just don’t subscribe to that
A: Why not? It’s not good enough for you guys?

Then it goes downhill from there.

 

[Marybeloved]

Well, like I said, it hardly starts that way. The problem is it devolves into that. Here is a sample:

A: Do you do Eucharistic adoration?
B: No
A: Why not?
B: Well, it is because of this…
A: Well, we do it because of this.
B: Yeah, but we just don’t subscribe to that
A: Why not? It’s not good enough for you guys?

Then it goes downhill from there.

Except it doesn’t go like that. It starts with a statement like ''Latin approach is…(insert here false statement)… and then Latins interject and then the person insists that the Latin concept/approach is what they (the non Latin) is claiming, then you have a very long thread (which I don’t mind ).