Europe must rediscover 'its own identity, its own unity', says Pope Francis

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PickyPicky said:
But marks for persevering.
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I’m afraid I can’t give a mark for perseverance if the person is peristently refusing to read the plain meaning of unambiguous evidence and insist on his own entirely conjectural, and demonstrably wrong, contention.

There is perseverance and then there is denialism. This is flat-out denial of a legal reality.
 
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Lou2U said:
why the EU cannot legislate same sex marriage in its member states.
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One shouldn’t forget that there’s also appeal to the ECHR which, on abortion, for example (Vo v France) determined that it was a matter for individual States.
 
Kaninchen said:
One shouldn’t forget that there’s also appeal to the ECHR which, on abortion, for example (Vo v France) determined that it was a matter for individual States.
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True but I prefer to avoid mentioning the ECHR around Americans because it’s not an EU institution or court even though they always think it is part of the EU.
 
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Vouthon said:
I’m afraid I can’t give a mark for perseverance if the person is peristently refusing to read the plain meaning of unambiguous evidence and insist on his own entirely conjectural, and demonstrably wrong, contention.
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I don’t understand why people are bothering with a clearly vexatious poster. Ultra-right American conservatives don’t really matter in EU discussions.
 
looks like the EU courts have ruled that no member state can be forced to legalize homosexual marriage as part of its own law, but every member has to fully recognize homosexual marriage contracted elsewhere, and in every respect.

So the “right” of a member state not to make homosexual marriage part of its own law is an illusion since it has to accept it in every way if contracted elsewhere.

The EU proponents in here would be a lot more persuasive if they were a little more forthcoming about what the EU can and cannot do.

www.theguardian.com

Gay spouses have rights in all EU countries, says European court official

Even countries whose governments oppose same-sex marriage must recognise rights, according to advocate general
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
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Recognizing gay marriage in member states is critical to aligning labor law and family benefits.
 
Ridgerunner said:
The EU proponents in here would be a lot more persuasive if they were a little more forthcoming about what the EU can and cannot do.
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I am always explaining the parameters and competences to all and sundry.

You, unfortunately, alleged earlier that there “were” no limits to what the EU can and cannot do (which is nonsense).
 
Kaninchen said:
I don’t understand why people are bothering with a clearly vexatious poster. Ultra-right American conservatives don’t really matter in EU discussions.
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That’s one thing about Americans, particularly conservative Americans. We believe people have a right to speak even if the left doesn’t want to allow it.
 
Vouthon said:
An example of the constitutional peril we are in, candidates for the Tory leadership are seriously claiming that they might prorogue parliament if elected - that is, temporarily disband parliamentary democracy and rule by executive privilege alone to get a no-deal Brexit through
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Mr Speaker is, fortunately, not happy with the idea.

www.bbc.co.uk

Brexit: John Bercow rejects ending Commons session to force no deal

The Speaker says ending the current session to allow a no-deal Brexit is "simply not going to happen".
www.bbc.co.uk
 
Ridgerunner said:
That’s one thing about Americans, particularly conservative Americans. We believe people have a right to speak even if the left doesn’t want to allow it.
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I have no problem with your right to speak, Ridgerunner, I’m questioning other people on why they bother to take part in a conversation with you.
 
Well, the US was in the same boat when some states began recognizing gay marriage. Recognizing gay marriage for the purposes of labor and tax benefits is hardly the same as legal gay marriage. It’s like complaining that you can get quickee marriages and divorces in Nevada that have to be recognized in Mississippi. It’s the nature of federal states.
 
Vouthon said:
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PickyPicky:
Mr Speaker is, fortunately, not happy with the idea
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Thank goodness!!!
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It makes a lie of Brexiteer claims of restoring parliamentary supremacy when one of their chief spokesmen wants to try to basically govern without parliament.
 
niceatheist said:
It’s the nature of federal states.
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Indeed, even in the non federal UK, there are three countries where you can have an abortion and one where you can’t, unless you buy a ferry/plane ticket or drive to the Irish Republic.
 
Vouthon said:
You, unfortunately, alleged earlier that there “were” no limits to what the EU can and cannot do (which is nonsense).
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We go through this dance of the seven veils in the U.S. too. If the EU has the power to make the laws, it has the power to make the laws whether it has presently made them in a particular way or not. Homosexual marriage is the “law of the land” in the EU. It’s a little different from the way it is in the U.S., but all states in the EU still have to recognize those marriages.
 
I’m just curious as to why you just won’t accept that you’re wrong.
 
Recognizing SSM for the purposes of taxation and benefits is not the same as member states having to recognize SSM itself.

But I take it this sudden fixation on gay marriage is because your abortion claims and your notions of how the Norway model works have been blown out of the water
 
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