Europe to force abortion on Ireland

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Young_Thinker said:
No disrespect intended, but how does murdering an unborn child have anything to do with freedom? Liberty involves responsibility. That is what distinguishes it from chaos.
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It was meant to be ironic. An international “human rights” court finds that not having access to an abortion violates Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights. The abortion itself, which violates the most fundamental human right, that to life, is somehow not a problem.

We really do need some type of “irony font”.
 
scipio337 said:
It was meant to be ironic. An international “human rights” court finds that not having access to an abortion violates Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights. The abortion itself, which violates the most fundamental human right, that to life, is somehow not a problem.

We really do need some type of “irony font”.
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I am sorry for not having realized that(i.e. the sarcasm). Thank you for your explanation.
 
scipio337 said:
It was meant to be ironic. An international “human rights” court finds that not having access to an abortion violates Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights. The abortion itself, which violates the most fundamental human right, that to life, is somehow not a problem.

We really do need some type of “irony font”.
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Irish constitutional law itself gives a ‘right’ to abortion in one very limited instance, a threat to the life of the mother. This was a Supreme Court decision in the X case. No Irish government has legislated to give effect to that decision. The ECHR has ruled that the government must give legal effect to its own Constitutional rights.
 
Yellow_Belle said:
No, it doesn’t, because that was never my point.

My point was that during the boom years, when people had money, the numbers of women travelling to the UK for an abortion declined, by about 23%, which is not inconsiderable. The reason for this isn’t clear but it could be that increased affluence meant fewer financial pressures associated with pregnancy and raising children so women tended to go through with unexpected pregnancies.

It is considerably less expensive to travel to the UK and procure an abortion than it is to stay in Ireland, have the baby and raise him/her. Therefore, I am speculating that with the country now in recession, there will be an increase in the numbers travelling to the UK for an abortion.
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Hi Yellow Belle,
Let me clear this one up for you. The reason that abortion figures are “down” is because those agencies that provide “abortion services” here in the Republic have told their clients
that several abortion clinics will only perform their trade once the client has provided an address within a 60 mile radius of the clinic. Everybody has an aunt or uncle or cousin or friend of a friend in England. Or, failing that, there are heaps of hotels and guest houses. Don’t be fooled by the figures. The murder of the innocents is still a thriving business.
God Bless and protect the unborn.
Colmcille.
 
colmcille1 said:
Hi Yellow Belle,
Let me clear this one up for you. The reason that abortion figures are “down” is because those agencies that provide “abortion services” here in the Republic have told their clients
that several abortion clinics will only perform their trade once the client has provided an address within a 60 mile radius of the clinic. Everybody has an aunt or uncle or cousin or friend of a friend in England. Or, failing that, there are heaps of hotels and guest houses. Don’t be fooled by the figures. The murder of the innocents is still a thriving business.
God Bless and protect the unborn.
Colmcille.
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That makes no sense since the scenario you outline - relatives in England, hotels, guest houses - have always existed.

Even the pro-life movement in Ireland accepts the figures represent a genuine decline.
 
Yellow_Belle said:
That makes no sense since the scenario you outline - relatives in England, hotels, guest houses - have always existed.

Even the pro-life movement in Ireland accepts the figures represent a genuine decline.
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Hi Yellow Belle,
The addresses the women give are English ones. Therefore the statistic is not an Irish statistic.
God Bless and protect the unborn.
Colmcille.
 
Yellow_Belle said:
The ECHR didn’t just suddenly decide to adjudicate on this: it had three cases in connection with that law before it. And, surprisingly enough, it is actually the function of the ECHR to adjudicate on cases before it. 🤷
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Well, forgive me for assuming that other courts work as they do in the US. The Supreme Court here actually has the luxury of deciding which cases to here (there are of course far to many cases for them to hear any more than a small fraction in a given year). I just figured the case might be similar for the ECHR. What can I say, I don’t know much about international courts.
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Kaninchen:
No country has been forced to sign the European Convention on Human Rights and the Court decides on cases that are brought before it, it doesn’t trawl through the mass of laws in Europe looking for things to decide on.

While one is always pleased to hear the thoughts of Americans on the threat to freedom that not being an American brings, one has to remember, as a European, that the idea of a Convention on Human Rights is considerable progress as far as a lot of Europe is concerned and that the idea of commonality in a democratic Europe is preferable to the fratricidal/genocidal warfare that eventually led to catastrophe.
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Let’s not get presumptuous. I wrote nothing to imply that I subscribe to this American elitism you speak of; you just like to assume everyone is like that whenever you get the chance. Perhaps you have some disdain of your own for us. And there are plenty of people in Europe who are, right or wrong, also concerned about the effects of membership to such international conventions or forums on theit national sovereignty. It’s not an exclusively or even predominantly American position; most Americans, from what I’ve learned, don’t care one way or another about the EU, the ECHR, or much else going on in Europe. And other international forums (NATO) tend to do the bidding of the the US, often to violate other nations’ sovereignty; so one need not be a raving nationalist American take a cautious stance toward international forums.

And I didn’t demand the dismantling of the Human Rights convention, as you seem to assume. Human rights conventions don’t need carte blanche to go around harping on every country it’s legal inconsistencies. Accepting the fact that there will be certain flaws in many countries’ constitutions or that not every single law will, for whatever reason, be enforced with as much consistency and offort as every other would be a far cry from reverting back to the “fratricidal/ genocidal past.”
 
colmcille1 said:
Hi Yellow Belle,
The addresses the women give are English ones. Therefore the statistic is not an Irish statistic.
God Bless and protect the unborn.
Colmcille.
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The addresses are not used to provide the statistics. Identification by means of passport or PPS number is.
 
Raskolnikov said:
Let’s not get presumptuous. I wrote nothing to imply that I subscribe to this American elitism you speak of; you just like to assume everyone is like that whenever you get the chance.
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It’s the product of experience.
Perhaps you have some disdain of your own for us.
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Americans or Americans on message boards lecturing Europeans on European affairs?

I don’t go on message boards and talk about American affairs, American politics, American policies and so on - despite having lived in the US. I liked living in America by the way, it was a great experience for Mr Kaninchen, the little Kaninchens and myself.
 
Kaninchen said:
It’s the product of experience.

Americans or Americans on message boards lecturing Europeans on European affairs?
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I don’t think Americans (myself included) have such a predisposition to limit themselves to discussing politics of their own country, and most I’ve known don’t expect foreigners to refrain from talking about the US either. Personally, I’m far more interested in the affairs of other countries; I only read the World section of google news; American politics simply bore me, that’s why I concern myself with the those of other countries. Can’t speak for anyone else here.
I don’t go on message boards and talk about American affairs, American politics, American policies and so on - despite having lived in the US. I liked living in America by the way, it was a great experience for Mr Kaninchen, the little Kaninchens and myself.
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Experieces may differ. Twenty years of living in the rustbelt has driven me to consider joining the Foreign Service and getting shipped off to Switzerland or Austria. Where I will, of course, use my good ol’ American know-how to tell’em what’s what and how to get things done. (sarcasm, of course; I’d use an emoticon, but, for the life of me, I can never tell which one to use.)
 
Raskolnikov said:
I don’t think Americans (myself included) have such a predisposition to limit themselves to discussing politics of their own country, and most I’ve known don’t expect foreigners to refrain from talking about the US either.
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I don’t think we’re allowed enough ‘lol’ icons to really express my reaction to that but you have only been around a couple of weeks - the dudgeon levels set off the alarms on those sei(name removed by moderator)eters on the San Andreas Fault.
Experieces may differ. Twenty years of living in the rustbelt has driven me to consider joining the Foreign Service and getting shipped off to Switzerland or Austria. Where I will, of course, use my good ol’ American know-how to tell’em what’s what and how to get things done. (sarcasm, of course; I’d use an emoticon, but, for the life of me, I can never tell which one to use.)
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Somehow, I’m in post-War Vienna, I hear zither music, I see men in trenchcoats and there’s Orson Welles saying:

In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, bloodshed—but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love, 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.
 
LOL those Europeans. All that fighting and dying in all those wars, to stay free and then they just up and give away their pride and freedom. I’m glad my ancestors dumped that piece of **** continent. Honestly it would have to be the most depressed, oppressed repressed place on earth. The brits and irish, always use to stand out, maybe because it was separated from the stink of the mainland. But now even the once proud british are nothing more than slaves of europe,… Once a place that would not think twice about taking on and most likely defeating any european country that dared stand in its way or try to impose it’s will on them. To nothing more than lap dogs of brussels. yeah, thats one longggggggggggggggggggggg fall.
 
latin_rite said:
LOL those Europeans. All that fighting and dying in all those wars, to stay free and then they just up and give away their pride and freedom. I’m glad my ancestors dumped that piece of **** continent. Honestly it would have to be the most depressed, oppressed repressed place on earth. The brits and irish, always use to stand out, maybe because it was separated from the stink of the mainland. But now even the once proud british are nothing more than slaves of europe,… Once a place that would not think twice about taking on and most likely defeating any european country that dared stand in its way or try to impose it’s will on them. To nothing more than lap dogs of brussels. yeah, thats one longggggggggggggggggggggg fall.
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Hi latin rite,
Yep, that’s what happens when you abandon your great Christian heritage.
God Bless,
Colmcille.
 
lizardley said:
The European Court of Human Rights has announced a controversial ruling that will force abortion on Ireland. The court has binding powers over the Irish Government, which will now have to legislate to allow abortion under certain circumstances.
To read more visit: sconews.co.uk/news/europe-to-force-abortion-on-ireland/
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In reading the article - it appears the logical solution (grisly and wrong as it would be btw) to let the woman just go to the UK (Northern Ireland is at most just hours away by car or train) to have her abortion there - is somehow THWARTED because the woman is in Ireland having Chemotherapy! That is … she wants to have it (killed) IN IRELAND regardless of the country’s laws and somehow is well enough to secure lawyers, take her case to this European Court though.

So much for religious tolerance, legal sanity and motherly love.

Woe betide these members of the King Herod Society of Justice and Health Care!
 
Pro choice women;s groups here say that "forcing women to travel to the UK for an abortion is “barbaric”.

She went on to say that she chose to allow her daughter to live but may need to do else. Can you imagine what that child must feel?

Abortion remains the lowert form of murder. I cannot think that any woman who has killed the life growing within her is fit to be a mother.
 
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