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Mannyfit75
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It is. Most of it is AT’s opinion which are not binding at all.No, it’s called AT’s opinion.
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AgnosTheist
Guest
But you must admit, most of it are popular opinion. Artificial Contraception, Gay sex tolerance, limited Abortion, Islamaphobia, Evolution, etc. Very popular opinions.
My view on Euthanasia though is still a minority opinion.
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Mannyfit75
Guest
From the words of the Great Pope John II:But you must admit, most of it are popular opinion. Artificial Contraception, Gay sex tolerance, limited Abortion, Islamaphobia, Evolution, etc. Very popular opinions.
My view on Euthanasia though is still a minority opinion.
“The truth is not always the same as the majority decision.”
The truth of moral teaching of the Church is immutable my friend. It cannot change. Human opinions can. But since God gave the Church authority on earth to bind and loose, whatever she teaches on moral and faith becomes immutable.
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AgnosTheist
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problem is, there is no objective evidence which suggests that church teachings are much more than human opinions themselves. thats why even catholics are fast becoming secular. that limited abortion is legal even in italy. and many catholics ignore church’s extremistic ban on non nfp contraception. etc, etc.
oh well.
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tomarin
Guest
wait a sec. let me show you why this assertion is untrue.Secularly speaking, its only murder if its against the law. Thank God thats changing. I would like to seek aid too in ending my suffering in the case I become hopelessly ill and being tortured by pain.
if murder is only murder when it is defined as such by the state, then presumably every country could define it differently and the idea of murder would soon become meaningless.
according to this logic, the deportation and deaths of the jews and others in the holocaust during world war II wouldn’t qualify as murder because the nazi state said it wasn’t. you don’t want to endorse that point of view do you?
no, there must be a higher law than that of governments which dictates what is murder and what is not. it also informs our consciences.
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Mannyfit75
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Well, the essential moral teaching of the Church has remain unchanged. For example the Early Church have always oppose abortion. The Didache forbid Christians from committing abortion, and the Early Church Fathers attest to this as well.
"The second commandment of the teaching: You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not seduce boys. You shall not commit fornication. You shall not steal. You shall not practice magic. You shall not use potions. You shall not procure [an] abortion, nor destroy a newborn child" (Didache 2:1–2 [A.D. 70]).
On Contraception:
Moreover, he [Moses] has rightly detested the weasel [Lev. 11:29]. For he means, ‘Thou shall not be like to those whom we hear of as committing wickedness with the mouth with the body through uncleanness [orally consummated sex]; nor shall thou be joined to those impure women who commit iniquity with the mouth with the body through uncleanness’" (Letter of Barnabas 10:8 [A.D. 74]).
Clement of Alexandria:
“Because of its divine institution for the propagation of man, the seed is not to be vainly ejaculated, nor is it to be damaged, nor is it to be wasted” (The Instructor of Children 2:10:91:2 [A.D. 191]).
“To have coitus other than to procreate children is to do injury to nature” (ibid., 2:10:95:3).
Even as technology advances, the new moral dilemma arises like embryonic stem cell research, and cloning, the Church has a moral duty entrusted to God to tend his sheep. When I look at history, I see consistent teaching that remain unchanged on faith and morals. I don’t see why you don’t see this.
This is the Holy Spirit working through Jesus’ Church.
And the Pope and Vatican condemned the Italian government for legalizing abortion. That is pretty clear. I know for a fact that the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit. God does not change his mind. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Therefore, my brethren, don’t carry any strange doctrine.oh well.
Humanity has the tendency to change their minds a lot. In order to preserve a more perfect moral and faith teaching, Jesus sent forth the Holy Spirit, to guide His Church to all truth. That is why when the Church teaches the issue of morality, especially euthanasia, and declares it to be immoral and against the sixth commandment, it is immoral and a serious sinful.
Euthanasia, my friend, is evil. No man ought to believe that it is morally acceptible. God has spoken through his Church, and anyone who disagrees find his own soul in grave danger.
As Jesus Christ once said,
28 “And fear ye not them that kill the body, and are not able to kill the soul: **but rather fear him that can destroy both soul **and body in hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and not one of them shall fall on the ground without your Father. 30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.” Matt 10:28-30.
Therefore, my brethren, avoid the evil of euthanasia. It is the doctrine of the Devil. He is the liar, and a murderer from the very beginning. He proclaims the truth is a lie, and the lie is the truth. This is how much backward this secular society has become.
Here a modified story I made about the fall of man in this modern world. How Satan deceived us again.
The Devil: “Why have God commanded you through his Church, that you should not take the life of the AIDs patient. Do you see his suffering? Take his life, and end his misery.”
Man: “Our Law tells us that Euthanasia is murder. We cannot kill. It would be murder.”
The Devil: “No. Don’t you see he his begging you to take his life. Cut off his life supply. Everyone says its ok. Even your brothers and sisters believe Euthanasia is ok since you are relieving his illness.”
Narrator: The man nodded in agreement with the Devil and went to the doctor and agreed to cutoff the life support. The AID patient dies.
Euthanasia is murder my friend. Jesus said that those who live for this world will lose it, and those who seek the kingdom of heaven will gain it. I rather take my chances with the Church of Jesus Christ, which is the Catholic Church than majority poll. The last time I check people use to believe that it ok in the US to segregate blacks and whites. Majority view on moral issues does not dictate moral issues. God does, and he does so with his Church.
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AgnosTheist
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In that event, i dont think it was an issue of defining ‘murder’. Rather it was an issue of defining ‘human’. Jews were dehumanized. so killing them was like killing dangerous animals.
but for some reason everyone seems to agree on the core ideas of ‘murder’. like this coming from webster…
the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought
euthanisia are done with a charitable heart, not with malice. and in some countries, its not a crime.
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Newbie2
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:newidea: That’s kinda the whole point about the objection to euthanasia; taking a human life dehumanizes it.
No way to get around it; euthanizing is killing.
I euthanize dogs and cats all the time as part of the duties of my profession. Nobody objects to this; they’re not human.
PS I predict the next question will be something like "So if we value quality of life in pets, how come we don’t value the quality of life in humans enough to allow “mercy killings”?
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AgnosTheist
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I must admit, thats the best reasoning ive heard against euthanasia. hmmm…
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Newbie2
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Well, there ya go.
Happy to oblige.
Happy to oblige.
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tomarin
Guest
i suppose that’s the difference between secular morality and theistic morality. in the former you only want to avoid harming or offending other people; in the latter you also want to avoid offending God (in this case by unlawful taking of the life of one of His creatures).
by the way, doesn’t the hippocratic oath say to do no harm? helping someone take their own life, “charitable” intentions notwithstanding, will always involve doing harm as far as i’m concerned.
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PapaSquash
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Then I implore you to carefully consider how and where you “seek aid… in ending… suffering” lest you trade some temporary torture for permanent suffering by separation.Secularly speaking, its only murder if its against the law. Thank God thats changing. I would like to seek aid too in ending my suffering in the case I become hopelessly ill and being tortured by pain.
I want to see you in heaven.
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Mannyfit75
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Same here, I want to see AT in heaven when I pass from this life to the next.
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Newbie2
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PoofaLump
Guest
suppose you were the one suffering and you WANTED to die but no end was in site and the pain you were suffering was unbearable (no medication helped, prayer didn’t ease any pain) no one wanted to help you - What then?
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LilyM
Guest
You lean on Jesus, who suffered so much more intensely in His passion than any of us could possibly do.
And you realise that there’s no such thing as ‘unbearable’ when HE helps you bear it, as He assuredly is always willing to do.
And no such thing as ‘no one wants to help me’ either, when HE is always there to help. And He does. Not necessarily by removing the pain, the Father didn’t reduce His, but by giving you the strength to turn it to His will, as Jesus was given the strength by His consoling angels.
Anyone who’s worked in a medical field (and I have a family full of doctors) especially with lots of end-of-life patients, will tell you that there are patients who patiently (pun intended) and even joyfully bear unbelievable, excruciating, off-the-charts levels of suffering, and others who get totally discombobulated by a broken fingernail.
“Unbearable” is all in your head.
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Spirithound
Guest
morphine?
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Holly3278
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Euthanasia is sickening. It is evil. The Church has condemned euthanasia and for good reasons too.
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edwest2
Guest
First, do no harm. I worked in a hospital for nearly 10 years, I helped carry bodies to the morgue. Euthanasia is killing someone. Pain control is possible and a natural death is preferrable. The Culture of Death wants death. This is bad. It should remain illegal.
“Euthanasia is ok.” According to who?
Peace,
Ed
“Euthanasia is ok.” According to who?
Peace,
Ed
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Spirithound
Guest
Morphine works. And if it doesn’t, you up the dosage till it does work. That is not euthanasia, it is medication.
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