Evangelical Population Explodes in Brazil as Catholic Church Shows Signs of Decline
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Swiss_Guy
Guest
Of course the Catholic Church would be showing signs of decline if Evangelicals are growing; Catholics make up like 95% of the population.
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Swiss_Guy
Guest
Oh my. That’s alarming.
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SirStephen
Guest
It bothers me to say but if the Church decides to chuck the “seamless garment” narrative (and related liberation theology narratives) that aligns the language of Catholic social justice to socialism; that is, when they decide, as Voltaire once said, to “cultivate their own garden,” they may begin to witness a re-awakening and resurgence.
For those on the inside, this type of comment always seems opaque. For those on the outside, it always seems so obvious.
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_Abyssinia
Guest
Just because Evangelicalism is a Christian denomination does not mean it should not be fought against like any other religion or denomination.
Pope Benedict has examined why Latin American Catholics are converting to Evangelical Christianity.
Recently found an interesting article
What Catholics Can Learn From Evangelicals
stjohn17v20-21.com/evangl01.htm
Pope Benedict has examined why Latin American Catholics are converting to Evangelical Christianity.
Recently found an interesting article
What Catholics Can Learn From Evangelicals
stjohn17v20-21.com/evangl01.htm
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Gabriel_Serafin
Guest
Catholicism is a treasure and a gift which bears much responsibility. If people are leaving the Church it means they never knew their faith in the first place and they are squandering the gift they probably never knew they had. For a country to be 95% Catholic one would think there should be millions of* Soldiers of Christ* shedding the light, truth, love and goodness of Christ in their country. But this is simply not the case. Millions of cultural Catholics does not necessarily translate into practicing Catholics.
But one need not look at foreign countries to study the exodus of people from the church; it happens in the U.S. too. In fact, a great number of Jehova’s Witnesses in the U.S: are former Catholics. In fact, J.W. train specifically to proselytize Catholics, whom they see as “easy converts”. A majority of the Catholics in the U.S. do not even attend Sunday Mass, much less know the teachings of the Catholic Church.
Is it a bad thing that Catholics are leaving the Catholic Church and finding Christ elsewhere? I would say yes—and no. Leaving the True Faith in exchange for something less is always a tragedy. Yet I often hear of people who left the Church and “found Christ” in some Evangelical group, only to be enlightened to the truth to “come back home” to the Church after their faith deepened, and their thirst and hunger for God became real. Often times, people leave the Church for pretty pathetic reasons; such as finding the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass boring, or for having some disagreement with the teachings of the Church. But these are founded on ignorance and a lack of catechesis, but also on lukewarmness and self-interest. There’s nothing worse than a lukewarm Catholic.
But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, not hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth. Rev. 3:16
But one need not look at foreign countries to study the exodus of people from the church; it happens in the U.S. too. In fact, a great number of Jehova’s Witnesses in the U.S: are former Catholics. In fact, J.W. train specifically to proselytize Catholics, whom they see as “easy converts”. A majority of the Catholics in the U.S. do not even attend Sunday Mass, much less know the teachings of the Catholic Church.
Is it a bad thing that Catholics are leaving the Catholic Church and finding Christ elsewhere? I would say yes—and no. Leaving the True Faith in exchange for something less is always a tragedy. Yet I often hear of people who left the Church and “found Christ” in some Evangelical group, only to be enlightened to the truth to “come back home” to the Church after their faith deepened, and their thirst and hunger for God became real. Often times, people leave the Church for pretty pathetic reasons; such as finding the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass boring, or for having some disagreement with the teachings of the Church. But these are founded on ignorance and a lack of catechesis, but also on lukewarmness and self-interest. There’s nothing worse than a lukewarm Catholic.
But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, not hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth. Rev. 3:16
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MaryandJoseph
Guest
Maybe a bit more Catholic teaching from the pulpit?
I know it would help me as I live over an hour from my parish and work evenings which make attending any type of bible/Church study next to impossible.
Maybe what is happening in Brazil is what is happening here in the US south. The evangelicals are willing to go door-to-door and invite you to their church and are not affraid to talk about their love of Jesus, I have been surprised at how many friends I have had over the years that are Catholic and I never knew this until I converted…how sad is that.
I know it would help me as I live over an hour from my parish and work evenings which make attending any type of bible/Church study next to impossible.
Maybe what is happening in Brazil is what is happening here in the US south. The evangelicals are willing to go door-to-door and invite you to their church and are not affraid to talk about their love of Jesus, I have been surprised at how many friends I have had over the years that are Catholic and I never knew this until I converted…how sad is that.
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Credo_ergo_sum
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I think it’s juts bad catechesis.
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Trebor135
Guest
I have one friend and another acquaintance who are now Pentecostal and Baptist, respectively, for this reason.
I’ve never read an account of a Catholic who knew what their Church taught and still left for Evangelical Protestantism.
Lukewarmness is also a huge factor–if the parents don’t set a good example, the children are going to fall away very easily.
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Nabooru
Guest
Evangelical megachurches grow for one very simple reason: promising much and asking little. There is no confession, communion, kneeling, etc. in an evangelical church. Just show up and love Jesus, and you’re all set. No commitments. No demands. It seems the only big issues megachurches have are with homosexuality and abortion.
I work in a Target store where megachurching is very big. Few of my co-workers go to the same church every week. They skip around. Most of the girls have babies out of wedlock, and they party as much as anyone else - perhaps a little backing off, but not too much. They just really love Jesus while they do it.
Megachurches don’t emphasize sin because people don’t want to be reminded of their faults. Whereas another, more traditional congregation might come right out and say you made a mistake and need to repent for what you’ve done, an evangelical megachurch spreads te word that they accept everybody, even people who think they’re sinners. And thy never bring it up during services.
Also, megachurches are more attractive because they’re giant recreational complexes. Some have restaurants and cafés inside, gyms, arcades, party rooms, etc. They offer classes and clubs.
The reason I think they’re so popular in developing countries is because they’re funded by huge evangelist churches here in the US. They have missionary backing you won’t believe. The sad thing is that a lot of pastors really are in it for the money - my dad is a contractor, and many of his jobs are with the local big non-denoms. Their leaders can be really shameless with their motivations. Think about it - why would you send a missionary to found a church in a country that’s already Christian?
The answer to all this is to get active. Traditional groups seem to have assumed in the past few decades (or even centuries) that they were established in a particular area and didn’t need to worry about anyone taking their followers away from them. Now there’s an actual competitive market for churches and unfortunately we’ll need to step up and play ball ršher than throw our hands up in the air.
I work in a Target store where megachurching is very big. Few of my co-workers go to the same church every week. They skip around. Most of the girls have babies out of wedlock, and they party as much as anyone else - perhaps a little backing off, but not too much. They just really love Jesus while they do it.
Megachurches don’t emphasize sin because people don’t want to be reminded of their faults. Whereas another, more traditional congregation might come right out and say you made a mistake and need to repent for what you’ve done, an evangelical megachurch spreads te word that they accept everybody, even people who think they’re sinners. And thy never bring it up during services.
Also, megachurches are more attractive because they’re giant recreational complexes. Some have restaurants and cafés inside, gyms, arcades, party rooms, etc. They offer classes and clubs.
The reason I think they’re so popular in developing countries is because they’re funded by huge evangelist churches here in the US. They have missionary backing you won’t believe. The sad thing is that a lot of pastors really are in it for the money - my dad is a contractor, and many of his jobs are with the local big non-denoms. Their leaders can be really shameless with their motivations. Think about it - why would you send a missionary to found a church in a country that’s already Christian?
The answer to all this is to get active. Traditional groups seem to have assumed in the past few decades (or even centuries) that they were established in a particular area and didn’t need to worry about anyone taking their followers away from them. Now there’s an actual competitive market for churches and unfortunately we’ll need to step up and play ball ršher than throw our hands up in the air.
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SirStephen
Guest
I agree that those that left never really had it. But that means they really have not been properly catechized. From the link above to the article with the Pope’s comments, it is said:
“Often sincere people who leave our Church do not do so as a result of what non-Catholic groups believe, but fundamentally as a result of their own lived experience; for reasons not of doctrine but of life; not for strictly dogmatic, but for pastoral reasons; not due to theological problems, but to methodological problems of our Church,”he told a delegation of Colombian bishops at the Vatican June 21.
Read more: ewtnnews.com/catholic-news/Vatican.php?id=5679#ixzz1zYqxrtPa
I wish I could agree with Pope Benedict on this one, a man who I have very high regard. I do know of folks who left the Church to Evangelical communities in search of holiness the DID NOT FIND in the Catholic Church but found elsewhere who actually did come back. There is the saying from a Church Father to the effect that the road to hell is on the skulls of Bishops (suggesting that they bear heavy blame when the Church lapses). Whether its Seamless Garment agendas that seek to harmonize faith with interfaith leftism, allowing NeoCat movements to come in and divide parishes by creating small Church in Churches that emulate Lutheranism, or simply to go along (to get along) with hermeneutics designated as “in the spirit of Vatican II” (that turn out to have never been in Vatican II), this is all about failed leadership (NOT Pope Benedict) that has cascaded into poor formation that results in all the effects we are seeing today - that includes, and this is where I humbly disagree with Pope Benedict, lapses in doctrine.
While few may be able to state with precision their reason for leaving (aside from finding something approaching authentic faith) the Church, almost everyone knows the feeling when the they are confronted with something less than authentic. Interesting, of the Catholics I have known who have gone to the Evangelical community and returned, they see exactly what I am speaking to. One could say, as they do, that they are Catholic in spite of the Church - an by no means because of it (referring to the institutional Church). And I am by NO means referring to extreme traditionalists.
I think Pope Benedict understands this and is trying to effect an internal reform before launching a larger one to the whole Catholic community and the world. In his book, Light of the World, he said: (on next post):
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SirStephen
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I went to edit and expand and found that I could not make changes after 20 minutes.
Returning to the point from above, I think Pope Benedict is well aware of what is going on. In his 2010 book Light of the World, he made the following points:
Less clearly but nevertheless unmistakably, we find here in the West, too, a revival of new Catholic initiatives that are not ordered by a structure or a bureaucracy. The bureaucracy is spent and tired. (59)
These are all phenomena that one can only observe with sadness. It is sad that there are what you might call professional Catholics who make a living on their Catholicism, but in whom the spring of faith flows only faintly, in a few scattered drops. We must really make an effort to change this. … I observe that initiatives arise, not because they are set up by the Church as institution, but because the people themselves believe. Spontaneous new beginnings arise, not from institutions, but out of an authentic faith. (141)
In response to the question:
QUESTION: How is it possible that in many Western countries every child spends years studying the Catholic religion in school, yet on graduation may know more about Buddism than he does about the basic tenets of Catholicism, which he may not even be able to recognize? All of which happens in a system that is under the responsibility of the dioceses.
ANSWER (by Pope Benedict): That is a question that I also ask myself. Every child in Germany has nine to thirteen years of religion in school. Why, in spite of that, so very little sticks, if I might put it like that, is incomprehensible. You are right that the Bishops must seriously reflect on ways to give catechisis a new heart and a new face. (140)
Benedict XVI, Light of the World: The Pope, the Church, and the Signs of the Times, Ignatius Press, 2010, 59, 141, 140.
Returning to the point from above, I think Pope Benedict is well aware of what is going on. In his 2010 book Light of the World, he made the following points:
Less clearly but nevertheless unmistakably, we find here in the West, too, a revival of new Catholic initiatives that are not ordered by a structure or a bureaucracy. The bureaucracy is spent and tired. (59)
These are all phenomena that one can only observe with sadness. It is sad that there are what you might call professional Catholics who make a living on their Catholicism, but in whom the spring of faith flows only faintly, in a few scattered drops. We must really make an effort to change this. … I observe that initiatives arise, not because they are set up by the Church as institution, but because the people themselves believe. Spontaneous new beginnings arise, not from institutions, but out of an authentic faith. (141)
In response to the question:
QUESTION: How is it possible that in many Western countries every child spends years studying the Catholic religion in school, yet on graduation may know more about Buddism than he does about the basic tenets of Catholicism, which he may not even be able to recognize? All of which happens in a system that is under the responsibility of the dioceses.
ANSWER (by Pope Benedict): That is a question that I also ask myself. Every child in Germany has nine to thirteen years of religion in school. Why, in spite of that, so very little sticks, if I might put it like that, is incomprehensible. You are right that the Bishops must seriously reflect on ways to give catechisis a new heart and a new face. (140)
Benedict XVI, Light of the World: The Pope, the Church, and the Signs of the Times, Ignatius Press, 2010, 59, 141, 140.
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MaryandJoseph
Guest
I attending Mass last Sunday and was bored out of my mind and nearly fell asleep
And this is a huge problem with many who leave the faith.
Then I realized something…I was bored because of ME!!! I did not spend quiet time before Mass praying and quieting my soul and turning towards Jesus. I sat there rolling my eyes at horrible singing and bad readers and a priest who stumbled over half his homily. I got nothing out of Mass because I did not PARTIICIPATE at Holy Mass. In all honesty, I was spiritually Lazy
The greatest music and preaching and reading in the world will have little impact if we are lazy in our faith. Many protestent churches are High energy and very “entertaining” which appeals to people who are used to being over-stimulated, and that is a huge draw for young people.
Maybe, its not so much about teaching what the Church believes as revealed by the Holy Spirit that we should focus on, as much as we should teach our young (and not so young alike) how to pray and be silent in the presence of our Lord.
And this is a huge problem with many who leave the faith.Then I realized something…I was bored because of ME!!! I did not spend quiet time before Mass praying and quieting my soul and turning towards Jesus. I sat there rolling my eyes at horrible singing and bad readers and a priest who stumbled over half his homily. I got nothing out of Mass because I did not PARTIICIPATE at Holy Mass. In all honesty, I was spiritually Lazy
The greatest music and preaching and reading in the world will have little impact if we are lazy in our faith. Many protestent churches are High energy and very “entertaining” which appeals to people who are used to being over-stimulated, and that is a huge draw for young people.
Maybe, its not so much about teaching what the Church believes as revealed by the Holy Spirit that we should focus on, as much as we should teach our young (and not so young alike) how to pray and be silent in the presence of our Lord.
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Contarini
Guest
Yes, tickling the ears of the wealthy and powerful can lead to short-term success.
But it’s not faithful to the Gospel.
Edwin
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SirStephen
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Yes, in fairness, this cuts both ways. One could argue that the overly left-leaning nature of the Church today is in some ways a response to being overly friendly with government leaders - especially in Latin America that were on the other side of the equation. A Church that spent more time Rendering to God may have been better positioned to resolve issues instead of being players in them.
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_Abyssinia
Guest
I think World Youth Day Rio De Janeiro will invigorate evangelisation of Catholic faith in Brazil
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Hesychios
Guest
Briefly.
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Hesychios
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Swiss_Guy
Guest
Liberation theology couldn’t have helped the situation.
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Hesychios
Guest
Perhaps you are right about that, but I think that is probably less a reason than an excuse at this point. Indeed anything we say will sound like an excuse. There is no one magic pill, I am afraid …
There is something else going on here.
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