Evangelical preacher. You can’t be pro-life and pro-gun

[SuperLuigi]

As a Canadian, all I can say is nice change.

I’m not sure I understand that comment. In the USA areas with gun control have the most gun violence.

It’s quite interesting as to why some citizens think that criminals will obey gun laws while breaking other ones.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Yes, let’s make sure those marginalised kids from broken homes, those with mental problems and single parent homes who survive the hail of bullets and grow into adulthood have access to semi automatic and automatic weapons. That will solve the problem.

In the USA that would mean large groups of minorities would not be able to own guns.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

I’m all for background checks.

You are saying. That I have no right to those weapons to protect myself from these people.

I agree with background checks. I would prefer a ban but it would be impossible because the real problem in the U.S. is cultural.

Poverty has a greater correlation to violent crime than access to firearms. Education and poverty are directly linked. In short, you don’t have a gun problem in the United States, you have a cultural problem.

Everything you need to manufacture firearms is available at Home Depot. The materials needed to manufacture a 12 gauge shotgun cost about $20. If someone wanted to build a fully automatic Mac-10 style submachine gun, it would probably cost about $60. Every electrician, plumber, and handyman in the country has the materials necessary to manufacture firearms in their shop. The items are completely unregulated. They aren’t like the chemicals necessary to manufacture methamphetamines.

You have a society that panders to the basest desires and instincts. One of those is violence. You live in a society where women are given dirty looks for breastfeeding in a restaurant, while over their heads on the wall-mounted television plays a movie that graphically depicts someone being tortured to death. You are desensitized to violence, and you have a generation of people that do not have the coping skills necessary to deal with reality.

Firearms are the Pandora’s Box of the United States. The box is open, it can’t be closed through legislation. If you want to change society, you have to actually change the whole of society.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Remember too that our “gun culture” comes from a time where the king we were under imposed gun control to stop the armed revolt that birthed our nation. As such America is a country (in theory) governed by the people and the people are to hold the power and protect themselves from outside invaders and an overreaching government. This is why the people bearing arms was enshrined in our constitution. And it was meant to be state of the art arms as powerful as any governments in the hands of the people. Private citizens used to own canons for example. This largely changed only in the 20th century practically speaking.

This principle is obscured though because our government has basically become a sort of kingdom that controls the people or at least seeks to.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

I’m all for background checks.

You are saying. That I have no right to those weapons to protect myself from these people.

Of course Australia’s culture is far different. You guys as a penal colony have always had some heavy gun control.

Of course your not worried about foreign invasion either because you’d count on us to come save you.

No actually we haven’t always had heavy gun control. Not till 1996. Before then guns were available if you had a gun licence, police check and sat out the waiting period.

We had some mass shootings then in 1996 we had a massacre, 35 shot and killed 23 wounded, men women and children. Still hasn’t been beaten afaik.

Both the conservatives and liberal politicians decided that was enough.

Now sports-shooters/farmers/hunters in regional/rural areas are allowed firearms provided all the checks and waiting period is met.

Automatic and semi-automatic weapons are illegal.

That’s not to say illegal guns are not available they still are but very difficult to get due simply due to the limited availability. They can’t simply break into someone’s house and steal their gun because there is 99% chance that the homeowner doesn’t have one.

 

[Tim_D]

I think only farmers and law enforcement authorities should be allowed legal access to weapons.

Honestly, who cares what you think? Our rights are enshrined in Constitutional law. Why should the government be able to tell us what rights we can and cannot exercise?

Oh, by the way…good job with that “voluntary” gun buy back in Australia. From what I’ve read, violent crime has increased ever since you guys decided that it is best for the government to disarm its citizens. I wonder what the government will next decide that you guys don’t need…

 

[SAVINGRACE]

Honestly, who cares what you think? Our rights are enshrined in Constitutional law. Why should the government be able to tell us what rights we can and cannot exercise?

Oh, by the way…good job with that “voluntary” gun buy back in Australia. From what I’ve read, violent crime has increased ever since you guys decided that it is best for the government to disarm its citizens. I wonder what the government will next decide that you guys don’t need…

You are quite rude and sarcastic.

We live in a global society unless you live in a cave, we debate other issues I’m not allowed to debate this issue simply because I am a foreigner?

Constitutional law can be amended. That’s why it’s called an “amendment”.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

Honestly, who cares what you think? Our rights are enshrined in Constitutional law. Why should the government be able to tell us what rights we can and cannot exercise?

Oh, by the way…good job with that “voluntary” gun buy back in Australia. From what I’ve read, violent crime has increased ever since you guys decided that it is best for the government to disarm its citizens. I wonder what the government will next decide that you guys don’t need…

No need to be rude and obnoxious.

Is that how you debate Protestants “who cares what you think, we are the one true Church.”

We discuss and debate issues here, I’m not allowed to have an opinion because I’m a foreigner?

Constitiutional Law can be changed and has been changed. It’s called an Amendment.

 

[Jon_S_1]

No need to be rude and obnoxious.

Is that how you debate Protestants “who cares what you think, we are the one true Church.”

We discuss and debate issues here, I’m not allowed to have an opinion because I’m a foreigner?

Constitiutional Law can be changed and has been changed. It’s called an Amendment.

This particular amendment is part of our “Bill of Rights”. These are the most fundamental amendments ensuring the rights of citizens. To eliminate one is to end America trading it for something else.

Could you imagine someone talking this way about abolishing the freedom of speach? Or abolishing the amendment prohibiting search and seizure so the government could just enter homes at their whim?

These first ten amendments of our constitution make America America.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

Remember too that our “gun culture” comes from a time where the king we were under imposed gun control to stop the armed revolt that birthed our nation. As such America is a country (in theory) governed by the people and the people are to hold the power and protect themselves from outside invaders and an overreaching government. This is why the people bearing arms was enshrined in our constitution. And it was meant to be state of the art arms as powerful as any governments in the hands of the people. Private citizens used to own canons for example. This largely changed only in the 20th century practically speaking.

This principle is obscured though because our government has basically become a sort of kingdom that controls the people or at least seeks to.

Interesting. Thank you for that information. I have seen the movies about the Independence wars.

We were lucky, in 1901 the British gave us Independence on a platter, signed us away. No war. I suppose they couldn’t be bothered with a colony of rabble rousing uncivilised ex-convicts. We are now quite proud of our convict roots.

 

[JD1789]

No need to be rude and obnoxious.

Is that how you debate Protestants “who cares what you think, we are the one true Church.”

We discuss and debate issues here, I’m not allowed to have an opinion because I’m a foreigner?

Constitiutional Law can be changed and has been changed. It’s called an Amendment.

I like to hear the opinions of those from other parts of the country and even more so other countries. Thanks for contributing. I disagree with you on quite a bit. I have had armed robberies in my old apartment building, a murder in the apartment below me a few months before I moved in (wasn’t informed of this by the management before moving in) and have had the need to use a firearm for aggressive/wounded animals when in rural areas. I do not want to give up my guns, because it’s impossible to make everyone else do the same.

There are a huge amount of guns in the US. Our government can’t even keep track of their own guns that they give to drug cartels (fast and furious). The Wild West is still wild in my mind. There should be tighter gun control, but please don’t try to take my guns away from me.

You mentioned someone breaking in and guns being useless. This is not the case. My safe opens in less than .5 seconds and my German shepherd provides plenty of warning. I didn’t ask for this gun culture, but I’m forced to live in it and I have no faith that the government can do a dang thing about it.

 

[JD1789]

Remember too that our “gun culture” comes from a time where the king we were under imposed gun control to stop the armed revolt that birthed our nation. As such America is a country (in theory) governed by the people and the people are to hold the power and protect themselves from outside invaders and an overreaching government. This is why the people bearing arms was enshrined in our constitution. And it was meant to be state of the art arms as powerful as any governments in the hands of the people. Private citizens used to own canons for example. This largely changed only in the 20th century practically speaking.

This principle is obscured though because our government has basically become a sort of kingdom that controls the people or at least seeks to.

Very, very good point.

 

[2Rollin_Stoned]

Let’s have a look at what the church teaches for us Catholics.

Legitimate defense

2263 The legitimate defense of persons and societies is not an exception to the prohibition against the murder of the innocent that constitutes intentional killing. "The act of self-defense can have a double effect: the preservation of one’s own life; and the killing of the aggressor. . . . The one is intended, the other is not."65

2264 Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one’s own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow:

If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful. . . . Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one’s own life than of another’s.66

2265 Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others. The defense of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm. For this reason, those who legitimately hold authority also have the right to use arms to repel aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their responsibility.I’m not overly concerned about this preacher or anyone else’s opinion since he’s like most other non-Catholics and uses his own personal fallible Biblical interpretation as his authority.

Since it’s his fallible interpretation and I choose to adhere to the infallible interpretations of the (far and away more educated) infallible teachings of the Catholic Church I can look at it with a better perspective and handle this issue accordingly.

As for everyone freaking out about gun violence and who thinks disarming us all is the answer I would have to suggest that you acquire a copy of
Resistance to Tyranny: A Primer

Apr 24, 2010 by Joseph P. Martino

…and take careful note of the fact that nations that have done that have proved to be the ones where freedoms are most restricted and in fact where genocides and tyranny have grown most powerful at the cost of the lives of citizens who would otherwise been able to offer an armed resistance and perhaps even prevent those same murders.

Keep in mind that Hitler and Stalin both disarmed their people…and that has worked out really well.

 

[2Rollin_Stoned]

Remember too that our “gun culture” comes from a time where the king we were under imposed gun control to stop the armed revolt that birthed our nation. As such America is a country (in theory) governed by the people and the people are to hold the power and protect themselves from outside invaders and an overreaching government. This is why the people bearing arms was enshrined in our constitution. And it was meant to be state of the art arms as powerful as any governments in the hands of the people. Private citizens used to own canons for example. This largely changed only in the 20th century practically speaking.

This principle is obscured though because our government has basically become a sort of kingdom that controls the people or at least seeks to.

Very, very good point.

I completely agree.

 

[HungerNThirst4R]

newsday.com/opinion/oped/i-m-an-evangelical-preacher-you-can-t-be-pro-life-and-pro-gun-1.11279541

This is one Evangelical preacher I firmly agree with!!!

 

[TK421]

I support gun reform.

That being said, the article is a judgmental polemic that serves to condemn and divide people. Having irresponsible and selfishly lax attitudes towards firearm regulations is not analogous to supporting the mass murder of children in the womb. Thank God for the Holy See so that I can always rely on its careful, tempered response.

 

[jcwit]

You really think you will be able to protect yourself against a home invader? I seriously doubt it. How is your weapon going to help you when it’s locked away and you have someone climbing into your bedroom window?

“Just wait there, you have broken into the wrong house buddy. Now what was the combination? Where is the key? Where is the ammo”

Most burglars just want your tv and cash. They don’t want to kill you and your entire family. What kind of alternate reality do you folk live in?

I think only farmers and law enforcement authorities should be allowed legal access to weapons.

Better off spending that money on karate/self-defence lessons.

What makes you think foR one. Minute that the.y are. Locke.d up? At present I am laying in bed reading a tablet, beside my bed is a bookcase with two 9 mm handguns, both loaded with one in the tube. Where I normally sit in my living room to watch TV or do whatever there is a 9 mm & a 45 auto. Next to where I keep my wallet & keys sits my carry piece ready to be belted on.

They break into my house for any reason they are looking for a world of hurt. Has something to do with my military training.

 

[808Catholic]

You really think you will be able to protect yourself against a home invader? I seriously doubt it. How is your weapon going to help you when it’s locked away and you have someone climbing into your bedroom window?

“Just wait there, you have broken into the wrong house buddy. Now what was the combination? Where is the key? Where is the ammo”

Most burglars just want your tv and cash. They don’t want to kill you and your entire family. What kind of alternate reality do you folk live in?

I think only farmers and law enforcement authorities should be allowed legal access to weapons.

Better off spending that money on karate/self-defence lessons.

As a former devotee to the martial arts, a gun is better than a black belt; don’t kid yourself. A piece of wood is better than hand to hand combat. A brick better than any fancy martial arts weapon. When you defend your life or the lives of your family, use all means necessary because you have no idea what is going on in the intruder’s mind or if he/she is on drugs.

People who believe no one should own/possess guns should talk to their police and military members.

 

[808Catholic]

I agree with background checks. I would prefer a ban but it would be impossible because the real problem in the U.S. is cultural.

Poverty has a greater correlation to violent crime than access to firearms. Education and poverty are directly linked. In short, you don’t have a gun problem in the United States, you have a cultural problem.

Everything you need to manufacture firearms is available at Home Depot. The materials needed to manufacture a 12 gauge shotgun cost about $20. If someone wanted to build a fully automatic Mac-10 style submachine gun, it would probably cost about $60. Every electrician, plumber, and handyman in the country has the materials necessary to manufacture firearms in their shop. The items are completely unregulated. They aren’t like the chemicals necessary to manufacture methamphetamines.

You have a society that panders to the basest desires and instincts. One of those is violence. You live in a society where women are given dirty looks for breastfeeding in a restaurant, while over their heads on the wall-mounted television plays a movie that graphically depicts someone being tortured to death. You are desensitized to violence, and you have a generation of people that do not have the coping skills necessary to deal with reality.

Firearms are the Pandora’s Box of the United States. The box is open, it can’t be closed through legislation. If you want to change society, you have to actually change the whole of society.

Our ATF want to talk to the plumbers, electricians, and handymen you know!

 

[Petaro]

I’m all for background checks.

You are saying. That I have no right to those weapons to protect myself from these people.

Of course Australia’s culture is far different. You guys as a penal colony have always had some heavy gun control.

Of course your not worried about foreign invasion either because you’d count on us to come save you.

Bit unfair Mate. Agreed that our culture is very different, but our penal past is not the basis of heavy gun control. This was brought in by Prime Minister in 1996.
See Wikipedia “Gun Laws in Australia.”
“Australia has had relatively low levels of violent crime. Overall levels of homicide and suicide have been in decline for several decades, while the proportion of these crimes that involved firearms has consistently declined since the early 1980s. Between 1991 and 2001, the number of firearm-related deaths in Australia declined 47%.[40] According to a 2011 report from the Australian government, “…the number of victims of homicide has been in decline since 1996”. There were 354 victims in 1996, but only 260 victims in 2010, a decrease of 27 percent. Of those 260 victims however, only 36 were homicides involving a firearm. Also, “The proportion of homicide victims killed by offenders using firearms in 2009–10 represented a decrease of 18 percentage points from the peak of 31 percent in 1995–96 (the year in which the Port Arthur massacre occurred with the death of 35 people, which subsequently led to the introduction of stringent firearms legislation).”. In 2014, only 35 people were victims of firearms homicide (1 in 685000 population),[41] compared to 98 people in 1996 [42] (1 in 186000 population). A 3.7 fold decrease in firearm homicide rates since controls were introduced in 1996.”

We worry about foreign invasion constantly since WW2. It may have been a different America that we relied upon then. However, we have been loyal allies on our part, pulling more than our weight in every war from Korea to Vietnam; to Iran; to Iraq; to Syria. Less contempt for your allies is more the America we remember and still respect.