Evangelicals, can you answer these questions?

[vsedriver]

The food of the Passover meal already represented the flesh and blood of the sacrificial lamb to begin with. Christ initiated this further, making the remembrance not of the Passover in Egypt and the old covenant, but the new covenant that would be made on the cross.

Passover may have been a remembrance of the Passover in Egypt but the Jews slaughtered and ate a real lamb at the Passover meal. The Eucharist is a remembrance of Christ’s death as a sacrificial lamb but we eat the real food of his body and blood in the form of bread in wine. Just like he told us to do.

The sacrifice of the Mass has no meaning without the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. This is the remembrance we are commanded to repeat.

 

[Third_Day]

Yes, Peter does make that point in this passage, but in so doing, he also calls Paul’s epistles inspired scripture.

Peter , as head of the Church, had the authority to call Paul’s epistle scripture. We have no such authority.

 

[Auburn88]

Peter , as head of the Church, had the authority to call Paul’s epistle scripture. We have no such authority.

The obvious fact that there’s no Biblical evidence that Peter was the head of the church aside, Paul had the authority to refer to his own epistles as scripture.

 

[vsedriver]

So what part of 2 Tim 3:15-17 do you think doesn’t hold water?

.

now where in this passage does it say that scripture is the ONLY source. Just that it is inspired by God and useful for refuting error, etc.

No reference to exclusivity.

 

[Auburn88]

now where in this passage does it say that scripture is the ONLY source. Just that it is inspired by God and useful for refuting error, etc.

No reference to exclusivity.

I have explained to you now so many times that I have NEVER said that scripture is the only source that I won’t even dignify your comments by responding to them again.

 

[Third_Day]

The obvious fact that there’s no Biblical evidence that Peter was the head of the church aside, Paul had the authority to refer to his own epistles as scripture.

Obvious fact? Jesus told Peter and Peter alone to govern His sheep in John 21:16

Peter and Peter alone was given the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Matt 16:19

Peter made the dogmatic decree at the Council of Jerusalem Acts 15.

What other proof do you need?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

The early church KNEW Paul’s epistles were inspired scripture.

Peter , as head of the Church, had the authority to call Paul’s epistle scripture. We have no such authority.

 

[Auburn88]

Obvious fact? Jesus told Peter and Peter alone to govern His sheep in John 21:16

Actually, He told Peter to feed His sheep, not govern them. As a pastor, the Bible gives me the same responsibility.

Peter and Peter alone was given the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Matt 16:19

Actually, it was the church as an institution that was given the keys of the kingdom.

Peter made the dogmatic decree at the Council of Jerusalem Acts 15.

Here’s Acts 15. As you can see, no such decree:

And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. 2When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question. 3And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren. 4And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them. 5But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
6And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

12Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.

13And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: 14Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. 15And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

16After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

17That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

18Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. 19Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 20But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. 21For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

22Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren: 23And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia: 24Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: 25It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth. 28For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; 29That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

30So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle: 31Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation. 32And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them. 33And after they had tarried there a space, they were let go in peace from the brethren unto the apostles. 34Notwithstanding it pleased Silas to abide there still. 35Paul also and Barnabas continued in Antioch, teaching and preaching the word of the Lord, with many others also.

36And some days after Paul said unto Barnabas, Let us go again and visit our brethren in every city where we have preached the word of the Lord, and see how they do. 37And Barnabas determined to take with them John, whose surname was Mark. 38But Paul thought not good to take him with them, who departed from them from Pamphylia, and went not with them to the work. 39And the contention was so sharp between them, that they departed asunder one from the other: and so Barnabas took Mark, and sailed unto Cyprus; 40And Paul chose Silas, and departed, being recommended by the brethren unto the grace of God. 41And he went through Syria and Cilicia, confirming the churches.

What other proof do you need?

How about “any”?

 

[Third_Day]

=Auburn88;7015711]Actually, He told Peter to feed His sheep, not govern them. As a pastor, the Bible gives me the same responsibility.

As you know the bible was written in Greek. Jesus tells Peter to “Tend my sheep”
The Greek word used here is poimaino which is translated “ to rule, to govern”.

Peter was given the authority to govern the earthly Church.

Just as King David fulfills Ezekiel 34:23 “And I will set over them one shepherd, my servant David and he shall feed them, he shall feed them and be their shepherd. And I the Lord shall be their God, and my servant David shall be the prince among them”

Peter now fulfills the prophecy as the shepherd of the kingdom of heaven, the Church.

As a pastor, the Bible gives me the same responsibility

How do you know that you have been called to be a pastor? You may have been called to preach about Christ but you weren’t called to interpret the bible on your own and tell others your private interpretation. That was given only to His Church not to a denomination.

Actually, it was the church as an institution that was given the keys of the kingdom

.
Show me in scripture where anyone other than Peter was given the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Thanks

Here’s Acts 15. As you can see, no such decree:

Here is the decree that gentiles can be saved.

6And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles **by my mouth **should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11But **we believe **that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, **even as they. **

Notice that Peter says “we believe”. He is speaking for the entire Church

12Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.

Barnabas and Paul talk about the miracles they have seen among the gentile. Peter has already spoken. The matter is settled.

13And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: 14Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
James, as Bishop of Jerusalem, gets to speak

15And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
6After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
18Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

James interprets a passage from scripture that verifies what Peter has already declared as dogma

19Wherefore **my sentence **is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 20But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood"

Notice that James speaks for himself and says “my sentence”… This is a pastoral decision that is not eternally binding.

Nothing in James statement has anything to do with the question of salvation for the gentiles. That has already been decided by Peter. The Church then sent out a letter with all the instructions on the dogma that came from Peter that gentiles need not be circumcised and the pastoral letter from James that gentiles “abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood”

Notice that James’s decision is no longer binding on any Christian today yet Peter’s still is. Us Gentiles do not have to be circumcised but we can eat meat with blood in it.

Also notice how the Christians at Antioch reacted when the letter was read to them:
“when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation”

Do you think they were rejoicing because they didn’t have to be circumcised or because they had to abstain from meat with blood

They rejoiced because of the infallible dogma proclaimed by Pope Peter that they too could be saved by faith without the Old Covenant works of circumcision.

 

[Auburn88]

As you know the bible was written in Greek. Jesus tells Peter to “Tend my sheep”
The Greek word used here is poimaino which is translated “ to rule, to govern”.

You sure about that? He’s the passage as rendered in the Greek and I’m sorry, but I just don’t see that word:

λέγει αὐτῷ τὸ τρίτον· Σίμων Ἰωάννου, φιλεῖς με; ἐλυπήθη ὁ Πέτρος ὅτι εἶπεν αὐτῷ τὸ τρίτον· φιλεῖς με; καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ· κύριε, πάντα σὺ οἶδας, σὺ γινώσκεις ὅτι φιλῶ σε. λέγει αὐτῷ Ἰησοῦς· βόσκε τὰ προβάτια μου.

Also, just so you know, that isn’t all poimaino means. It can also be translated as “feed” or to tend to.

How do you know that you have been called to be a pastor?

Because I meet the Biblical requirements.

You may have been called to preach about Christ but you weren’t called to interpret the bible on your own and tell others your private interpretation. That was given only to His Church

First of all, I know you don’t believe it, but we are a part of that church.

Second, yes, one of my duties as a pastor is to study the word of God, which requires interpreting it.

Show me in scripture where anyone other than Peter was given the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Thanks

Matthew 16:19. Now, of course you won’t believe this, but that’s only because you don’t accept the principle of the analogy of scripture.

Here is the decree that gentiles can be saved.

6And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles **by my mouth **should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11But **we believe **that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, **even as they. **

Notice that Peter says “we believe”. He is speaking for the entire Church

12Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.

Barnabas and Paul talk about the miracles they have seen among the gentile. Peter has already spoken. The matter is settled.

13And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: 14Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
James, as Bishop of Jerusalem, gets to speak

15And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
6After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
18Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

James interprets a passage from scripture that verifies what Peter has already declared as dogma

19Wherefore **my sentence **is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 20But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood"

Notice that James speaks for himself and says “my sentence”… This is a pastoral decision that is not eternally binding.

Nothing in James statement has anything to do with the question of salvation for the gentiles. That has already been decided by Peter. The Church then sent out a letter with all the instructions on the dogma that came from Peter that gentiles need not be circumcised and the pastoral letter from James that gentiles “abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood”

Notice that James’s decision is no longer binding on any Christian today yet Peter’s still is. Us Gentiles do not have to be circumcised but we can eat meat with blood in it.

Also notice how the Christians at Antioch reacted when the letter was read to them:
“when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation”

Do you think they were rejoicing because they didn’t have to be circumcised or because they had to abstain from meat with blood

They rejoiced because of the infallible dogma proclaimed by Pope Peter that they too could be saved by faith without the Old Covenant works of circumcision.

You are certainly welcome to your opinion.

 

[Third_Day]

=Auburn88;7023586]You sure about that? He’s the passage as rendered in the Greek and I’m sorry, but I just don’t see that word:

λέγει αὐτῷ τὸ τρίτον· Σίμων Ἰωάννου, φιλεῖς με; ἐλυπήθη ὁ Πέτρος ὅτι εἶπεν αὐτῷ τὸ τρίτον· φιλεῖς με; καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ· κύριε, πάντα σὺ οἶδας, σὺ γινώσκεις ὅτι φιλῶ σε. λέγει αὐτῷ Ἰησοῦς· βόσκε τὰ προβάτια μου.

Also, just so you know, that isn’t all poimaino means. It can also be translated as “feed” or to tend to.

You’re in the wrong verse. It’s verse 16 not 15.

Because I meet the Biblical requirements.

A bishop laid hands on you? When and what Bishop?

First of all, I know you don’t believe it, but we are a part of that church

You as an individual, because of your baptism, are part of the Church but the denomination you pastor is not. Christ established the Church not denominations. Your denomination was started by a man or a woman. Give me the name of your denomination and I can tell you when it was started and what person started it. It wasn’t Jesus Christ.

Second, yes, one of my duties as a pastor is to study the word of God, which requires interpreting it.

How do you know your interpretation is correct? By what authority do you interpret it? How do you know you are not a false teacher?
Nowhere in scripture does anyone interpret scripture apart from the interpretation given to them by the Church. Peter calls those that try "Untrained and unestablished " and they twist scripture. 1 Peter 3:16.

Matthew 16:19. Now, of course you won’t believe this, but that’s only because you don’t accept the principle of the analogy of scripture.

I accept the analogy of scripture after I accept the literal. Jesus is speaking to Peter 2,000 years ago. He is not giving Auburn88 the keys and the authority to bind on earth what is bound in heaven.

You are certainly welcome to your opinion.

Can you defend your position that Peter did not proclaim the Dogma at the Council of Jerusalem?

 

[Nicea325]

The obvious fact that there’s no Biblical evidence that Peter was the head of the church aside, Paul had the authority to refer to his own epistles as scripture.

Obvious fact? What Bible are you reading? Where does Paul say he is writing inspired-sacred scripture?

 

[Nicea325]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Third Day
Obvious fact? Jesus told Peter and Peter alone to govern His sheep in John 21:16

Auburn88:
Actually, He told Peter to feed His sheep, not govern them. As a pastor, the Bible gives me the same responsibility.

False premise. If he was not to govern Christ sheep,then why bother to replace Judas office? Offices are part of governing and the fact Jesus gave his 12 authority is evident governing is part of the deal.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Agreed.

False premise. If he was not to govern Christ sheep,then why bother to replace Judas office? Offices are part of governing and the fact Jesus gave his 12 authority is evident governing is part of the deal.

 

[Nicea325]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicea325
False premise. If he was not to govern Christ sheep,then why bother to replace Judas office? Offices are part of governing and the fact Jesus gave his 12 authority is evident governing is part of the deal.

Agreed.

Hey gurney…how is it going? Making any progress with your journey?

 

[Auburn88]

You’re in the wrong verse. It’s verse 16 not 15.

No, I was in the right verse. I just looked it up again.

A bishop laid hands on you? When and what Bishop?

Other pastors laid hands on me. We don’t have bishops as Catholics understand them.

You as an individual, because of your baptism, are part of the Church but the denomination you pastor is not.

And you are welcome to your opinion, but my Bible says differently.

Christ established the Church not denominations. Your denomination was started by a man or a woman.

Yeah, some guy named Jesus something or other.

How do you know your interpretation is correct?

Because it matches the interpretation of the church and of the historic creeds, confessions, and catechisms of the church.

By what authority do you interpret it?

By the authority given to all believers by the Word of God.

How do you know you are not a false teacher?

Because I have not taught falsely.

I accept the analogy of scripture after I accept the literal.

What does one have to do with the other?

Jesus is speaking to Peter 2,000 years ago. He is not giving Auburn88 the keys and the authority to bind on earth what is bound in heaven.

He is giving the church, which Auburn88 is a part of, the keys and the authority.

Can you defend your position that Peter did not proclaim the Dogma at the Council of Jerusalem?

Only that I posted the whole chapter and it wasn’t there.

 

[Dokimas]

Obvious fact? What Bible are you reading? Where does Paul say he is writing inspired-sacred scripture?

1 Thes 4:
8 Therefore he who rejects this does not reject man, but God, who has also given us His Holy Spirit.

1 Thes 5:
27 I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read to all the holy brethren.

 

[Brandon72]

Cranmer2010There are a few things that I have some issues with when I speak to some Evangelicals regarding their beliefs and what Scriptures says. If you noticed, I am not Roman Catholic, I am Anglican. Here are a few of those issues and please do respond to them.

1. Scripture clearly talks about the Body and Blood of Christ and how Christ professed the bread and wine at the last supper to be his Body and Blood. How do you explain it down to symbolism when Scripture is clear on several accounts that it is much more than that?

John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.

The words he spoke are spirit. Jesus was using physical concepts to teach his spiritual message.

19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.”

When we break bread together, which you can even do in your own home, we do it in remembrance of Christ, we are remembering what he did for us on the Cross. We aren’t physically eating his flesh or drinking His blood like a vampire.

Not only that, but I have a very very hard time with a priest (a man, a created being) calling Christ down from Heaven. He doesn’t do our will, we do His.

Hebrews 7:27 (NIV)
27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.

1. How can you not believe in the saints being alive and well in Heaven when the Transfiguration proved that Moses and Elijah were absolutely alive and well years and years after they physically died?

I believe all the elect that are in Heaven now are in the spirit and alive and well. They haven’t received their glorified bodies yet, but they are in the presence of our King!

1 Corinthians 15:52 (NIV)
52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

1. Why do you not worship in the ways that Early Christians worshipped? Why are altars, vestments, incense and the Eucharist all absent from your worship? I don’t understand how it can be beneficial to strip away all of the Early Church tradition from worship.

When we go to Scripture the early church met in houses not big fancy buildings with altars, vestments, and incense.2:46; 5:42; Romans 16:5; 1 Corinthians 16:19. I believe it wasn’t until Constantine made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire that they began to build these big and fancy temples.

I think a lot of people today think a church building is a sacred place. It’s not, it’s a building built with hands of men. God is spirit and can be worshiped in your back yard, while driving a car, etc… Jesus told the Samaritan woman basically the same thing, without the car part though!

John 4:21 Jesus declared, “Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”

I appreciate any and all dialogue. Thanks.

No, thank you!

 

[Cranmer2010]

Cranmer2010There are a few things that I have some issues with when I speak to some Evangelicals regarding their beliefs and what Scriptures says. If you noticed, I am not Roman Catholic, I am Anglican. Here are a few of those issues and please do respond to them.

John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.

The words he spoke are spirit. Jesus was using physical concepts to teach his spiritual message.

19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.”

When we break bread together, which you can even do in your own home, we do it in remembrance of Christ, we are remembering what he did for us on the Cross. We aren’t physically eating his flesh or drinking His blood like a vampire.

Not only that, but I have a very very hard time with a priest (a man, a created being) calling Christ down from Heaven. He doesn’t do our will, we do His.

Hebrews 7:27 (NIV)
27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.

I believe all the elect that are in Heaven now are in the spirit and alive and well. They haven’t received their glorified bodies yet, but they are in the presence of our King!

1 Corinthians 15:52 (NIV)
52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

When we go to Scripture the early church met in houses not big fancy buildings with altars, vestments, and incense.2:46; 5:42; Romans 16:5; 1 Corinthians 16:19. I believe it wasn’t until Constantine made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire that they began to build these big and fancy temples.

I think a lot of people today think a church building is a sacred place. It’s not, it’s a building built with hands of men. God is spirit and can be worshiped in your back yard, while driving a car, etc… Jesus told the Samaritan woman basically the same thing, without the car part though!

John 4:21 Jesus declared, “Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”

No, thank you!

Thank you for your response.

 

[guanophore]

John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.

The words he spoke are spirit. Jesus was using physical concepts to teach his spiritual message.

19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.”

When we break bread together, which you can even do in your own home, we do it in remembrance of Christ, we are remembering what he did for us on the Cross. We aren’t physically eating his flesh or drinking His blood like a vampire.

The fact that something is “spiritual” does not mean it isn’t “real” (only symbolic)

What did Jesus mean when he said “the flesh is of no avail”?

If He was not referring to His literal Body and Blood, why were the Jews scandalized?

Why did the Apostles take it literally?

How to you explain the writings of the disciples of the Aposltes, who believed in this literally?

How can you "profane’ that which is not really present?

Not only that, but I have a very very hard time with a priest (a man, a created being) calling Christ down from Heaven. He doesn’t do our will, we do His.

Two things. One, He is pleased to be present with us, and waits only to be invited. He said “whereever two or more of you are gathered, there I am in your midst”. What would make you think He does not wish to be called?

Second, He was clear that it is His will that we do this “DO THIS” in memory of me. And, if you notice, He set His memorial meal in the context of the Passover, where a “real” lamb was slain and eaten.

Hebrews 7:27 (NIV)

27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.

And this is our understanding of the celebration of the Eucharist. We participate in His once for all sacrifice.

I believe all the elect that are in Heaven now are in the spirit and alive and well. They haven't received their glorified bodies yet, but they are in the presence of our King!:D

If they are alive and well, then why do you think they can’t support us in joining them?

When we go to Scripture the early church met in houses not big fancy buildings with altars, vestments, and incense.2:46; 5:42; Romans 16:5; 1 Corinthians 16:19. I believe it wasn’t until Constantine made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire that they began to build these big and fancy temples.

You are lacking some basic information about the history of your faith, Brandon. Constantine did not make Chrisianity the official religion of the Empire. In the Edict of Milan, he decrimminalized it, so that it was no longer punishable by death. At that point, the Church was able to burst out upon secular society in a way it could not before, since it was underground. Pagan temples were converted into churches, since those who used to worship in them did not use them any more.

Constantine built a church in honor of His mother, but it was the first building that was used that had not been used for another purpose previously.

I think a lot of people today think a church building is a sacred place. It's not, it's a building built with hands of men.

After Jesus teaching on holiness, we consider the building consecrated because it contains the Altar that makes the gift Holy.

God is spirit and can be worshiped in your back yard, while driving a car, etc....

Yes, of course! But you notice that Jesus and the Apostles still went to the Temple and the synagogue.

Jesus told the Samaritan woman basically the same thing, without the car part though!

He told her salvation is of the Jews, the ones who built that fancy temple.

John 4:21 Jesus declared, “Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”

Worship in Spirit and Truth is the celebration of His Body and Blood. We do this on consecrated ground, to commemorate the solemnity of His sacrifice,a nd our reverence for Him. The vessels set aside for it are also not use for any other purpose.