Evangelicals: How do you know you have "Saving Faith"?

[ALLFORHIM]

The problem is that there are those who, to all intents and purposes, walk closely with Chirst, live reformed lives, and STILL fall away before the end. How does one account for those who, at one time, firmly believed themselves to be saved, and, in fact, lived lives of genuine repentance, but failed to persevere to the end and fell into a life of sin or apostasy? How is such a one, before falling away, to be distinguished, in practical terms, from the “true Christian”?

The only thing I can say to that is that they probably didnt truly believe in their heart what they were doing. They may have felt that by following all of God’s religious guidelines(that is biblical)that that was enough. What they were missing was the inner relationship that they may never truly asked for from God.

Lets face it we all know people who play church and then during the week you say to yourself why are they acting that way!!! We were just having a discusiion about this yesterday at our Mother’s day party. My in laws are catholic and my BIL plows the CC parking lot. He was saying how incredibly rude the parishioners are to him when he is trying to do his job so they can go to church. He said if only the Priest knew.

I dont mean to be picking on catholics(it was just a story about this one church is all). Trust me I know many protestants who are the same way.

My minister always challenges us to not only be christians in church, but be chhristians the rest of the week. Anyway, we cant tell someones heart. I try to just tell biblical truth and working on not judging anyone but praying for them instead.

 

[Mickey]

My minister always challenges us to not only be christians in church, but be christians the rest of the week.

Yes. Sometimes it is a real challenge to be Christians in the market place. We should not go to Church on Sunday, and then leave Jesus in the pew until next week.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Yes. Sometimes it is a real challenge to be Christians in the market place. We should not go to Church on Sunday, and then leave Jesus in the pew until next week.

I have to say though coming here has really made me mature as a christian.
I have learned to be more kind, patient and loving and less judgemental.

Oh and the biggest fruit of the Spirit that has grown within from being here: DRUMROLL PLEASE

SELF_CONTROL

 

[stinkcat_14]

The only thing I can say to that is that they probably didnt truly believe in their heart what they were doing.

So, the question is, how do you know that you really, truely believe and are not just fooling yourself that you believe?

 

[Mickey]

I have to say though coming here has really made me mature as a christian.
I have learned to be more kind, patient and loving and less judgemental.

Ditto.

 

[mikeledes]

1 Cor 1:17-18 "For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void.

For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God

1 Cor 1:20-21 "Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not {come to} know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.Not for salvation. To be saved (by God) what you have to do is believe the “foolishness” of the message of the cross. As Paul states above.A false conclusion and not based on ANY reality at all. “Christian rock” might appeal to many young people, but it can save no one. Maybe that was your problem.Good works are good, and at the judgment seat of Christ there will be rewards accordingly. Working “out” ones salvation unto maturity is good also. But no one can work “for” salvation. And the saved certainly are to pursue a righteous life style, to the glory of Christ, but not FOR the pursuit of salvation. Those who believe are gifted “the righteousness of God” through personal faith in the Person and work of the Son. Upon belief the saved are “made righteous” in HimRom 5:19 "For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous."Was it “Protestantism” you fled or the “word of the cross?”

Actually, he fled to the “word of the cross.”

God Bless,
Michael

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Actually, he fled to the “word of the cross.”

God Bless,
Michael

Hey Mike,
I think APO was actually asking that question to CAT. I may be wrong but I believe the question was directed at her.
I dont think it was directed at a theological answer but a personal answer.

 

[VociMike]

I have to say though coming here has really made me mature as a christian.
I have learned to be more kind, patient and loving and less judgemental.

Oh and the biggest fruit of the Spirit that has grown within from being here: DRUMROLL PLEASE

SELF_CONTROL

I will chime in and say that I’ve never seen you behave uncharitably here.

 

[clmowry]

Actually I must not. I was hoping you would explain it to me.

Chuck

That’s a VERY important question since Christ Himself said:""…that whoever believe in Him should not perish but have eternal life" (Jn. 3:16).
I’m sure you know what the word “believe” means. But the real question is what does “in Him” mean? Since it’s believing “in Him” that causes one not to perish (forgo judgment) and HAVE eternal life (Jn. 5:24).

When you figure that out, Chuck, then you’re closer to saving faith than ever.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I will chime in and say that I’ve never seen you behave uncharitably here.

Thank you that is because I exercise self-control. I have a mean streak that I choose to squelch because God tells me too.
Not that God actually speaks to me.:whacky: Dont want you to think I hear voices LOL
But you get my point:thumbsup:

 

[clmowry]

Do you have “Saving Faith” defined somewhere here about?

Chuck

NONE of what you say here is based on “saving faith.” It’s not the faith through which God saves a sinner. It’s all of self, none of Christ. In reality, it’s unbelief. Saving faith turns completely away from self and trusts in the Word concerning Christ. Only when the saved turn again to self are their hearts flooded with fear and uncertainties. They don’t lose their salvation, only the assurance of it. As it should be! Divine salvation does not originate nor rest in ourselves, but in the Person and work of Christ alone.

 

[mrs_abbott]

Thank you that is because I exercise self-control. I have a mean streak that I choose to squelch because God tells me too.
Not that God actually speaks to me.:whacky: Dont want you to think I hear voices LOL
But you get my point:thumbsup:

God speaks to you through prayer.
Sorry, I know I’m stating the obvious.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

God speaks to you through prayer.
Sorry, I know I’m stating the obvious.

and reading His word of course:thumbsup:

 

[mrs_abbott]

and reading His word of course:thumbsup:

Most definitely because that’s how we learn about Him. I’d be lost without my Bible. Everything is in there, including knowing that we are saved. Now believing it is another story.

 

[Cat]

mikeledes, I suppose I did flee “Protestantism,” because I didn’t find the “word of the cross” there. I found “the word of the cross” right in front of my eyes in the Catholic Church.

If you are still hearing “the word of the cross” in your Protestant church, you are a blessed person. I hope that you will continue to hear it, but I do fear for you and your church. Without any authority other than “the Bible,” you have no guarantee that the Gospel you are hearing now will be the same Gospel that is preached ten years from now.

It is in the Catholic Church that I have come to love the “old rugged cross” and more importantly, the Lord who died on it for me and the whole world.

Other than that hymn, the evangelical churches rarely, if ever, mentioned the cross of Christ, at least in recent years. Talk about “carrying one’s cross” doesn’t attract “seekers.” “Seekers” are turned off hearing about the horrors of execution by crucifixion, so the pastors tended to do “needs-based” sermons. I have a “seeking” friend (who thinks she doesn’t need to seek God) who says that crucifixes should be outlawed.

When I was little, it was different. It’s in the last few decades that Protestantism, especially evangelicalism, has become “fluffy,” probalby to attract “seekers.”

In fact, I’ve often said that the Catholic Church that I currently attend is more like the Baptist church that I grew up in, than that Baptist church is now. I hear more appeals from the priests in the ambo to “accept Christ as personal Savior” and “develop a relationship with Jesus Christ” than I heard in many a year at the Evangelical Free Church that I was eventually kicked out of. Evangelicalism has become “needs’based” and “seeker-friendly,” while mainline churches concentrates on “inclusiveness” and “diversity.”

I’m not sure I understand why you posted the Bible verses and explained that we come to salvation through belief. Are you saying that the Catholic Church teaches a different Gospel? They don’t.

What you are saying is what the Catholic Church teaches. We are saved by grace through faith, and our works are the result of the grace that Jesus gives us. It’s in the Catechism.

The difference between Catholicism and Protestantism is that Catholicism gives us a “method” of following Jesus, whereas in Protestant churches, we are told to “just believe.” Evangelicalism was like walking around in the dark, always wondering if I’m “in God’s will.” Since there is no “authority” other than the Holy Spirit, it is up to ME and ME Alone (with the help of my latest “church” or “Christian author or speaker”) to discern what the Holy Spirit’s will is for my life.

Catholicism is being in the Light, the Light of the World, Jesus.

Interestingly, the Methodists had the same idea as Catholicism. The denomination first started when Charles Wesley developed a “method” for becoming holy. His “method” included things like “reading the Bible, praying, going to Church, giving, doing charitable works, etc.” He never meant for his “method” to become a denomination; it was supposed to apply to ALL Christians. But it did become a denomination.

Catholicism gives me the “method”. In fact, the “method” that Wesley came up with is basically the same stuff that the Catholic Church teaches.

It’s not WORKS, it’s the “method” to walking with Christ. The “method” is not a “works-based salvation.” Over and over, the Catholic Church and its greatest teachers and preachers say that we can do NOTHING to merit salvation, that Jesus has already done it for us through His death, burial, and resurrection.

Please don’t tell me that Protestants don’t try to come up with “methods” of following Jesus. That’s what all those books and seminars and conferences and even songs are about! Evelyn Christenson, Gary Smalley, Charles Swindoll, etc.–all these great evangelicals write and speak about “methods” that will bring us close to God and help us to have a more abundant life.

I hope I have answered your question.

 

[mrs_abbott]

Do you have “Saving Faith” defined somewhere here about?

Chuck

Saving faith = a faith that saves
Having faith in Jesus Christ and all that He said and did saves us.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

mikeledes, I suppose I did flee “Protestantism,” because I didn’t find the “word of the cross” there. I found “the word of the cross” right in front of my eyes in the Catholic Church.

If you are still hearing “the word of the cross” in your Protestant church, you are a blessed person. I hope that you will continue to hear it, but I do fear for you and your church. Without any authority other than “the Bible,” you have no guarantee that the Gospel you are hearing now will be the same Gospel that is preached ten years from now.

It is in the Catholic Church that I have come to love the “old rugged cross” and more importantly, the Lord who died on it for me and the whole world.

Other than that hymn, the evangelical churches rarely, if ever, mentioned the cross of Christ, at least in recent years. Talk about “carrying one’s cross” doesn’t attract “seekers.” “Seekers” are turned off hearing about the horrors of execution by crucifixion, so the pastors tended to do “needs-based” sermons. I have a “seeking” friend (who thinks she doesn’t need to seek God) who says that crucifixes should be outlawed.

When I was little, it was different. It’s in the last few decades that Protestantism, especially evangelicalism, has become “fluffy,” probalby to attract “seekers.”

In fact, I’ve often said that the Catholic Church that I currently attend is more like the Baptist church that I grew up in, than that Baptist church is now. I hear more appeals from the priests in the ambo to “accept Christ as personal Savior” and “develop a relationship with Jesus Christ” than I heard in many a year at the Evangelical Free Church that I was eventually kicked out of. Evangelicalism has become “needs’based” and “seeker-friendly,” while mainline churches concentrates on “inclusiveness” and “diversity.”

I’m not sure I understand why you posted the Bible verses and explained that we come to salvation through belief. Are you saying that the Catholic Church teaches a different Gospel? They don’t.

What you are saying is what the Catholic Church teaches. We are saved by grace through faith, and our works are the result of the grace that Jesus gives us. It’s in the Catechism.

The difference between Catholicism and Protestantism is that Catholicism gives us a “method” of following Jesus, whereas in Protestant churches, we are told to “just believe.” Evangelicalism was like walking around in the dark, always wondering if I’m “in God’s will.” Since there is no “authority” other than the Holy Spirit, it is up to ME and ME Alone (with the help of my latest “church” or “Christian author or speaker”) to discern what the Holy Spirit’s will is for my life.

Catholicism is being in the Light, the Light of the World, Jesus.

Interestingly, the Methodists had the same idea as Catholicism. The denomination first started when Charles Wesley developed a “method” for becoming holy. His “method” included things like “reading the Bible, praying, going to Church, giving, doing charitable works, etc.” He never meant for his “method” to become a denomination; it was supposed to apply to ALL Christians. But it did become a denomination.

Catholicism gives me the “method”. In fact, the “method” that Wesley came up with is basically the same stuff that the Catholic Church teaches.

It’s not WORKS, it’s the “method” to walking with Christ. The “method” is not a “works-based salvation.” Over and over, the Catholic Church and its greatest teachers and preachers say that we can do NOTHING to merit salvation, that Jesus has already done it for us through His death, burial, and resurrection.

Please don’t tell me that Protestants don’t try to come up with “methods” of following Jesus. That’s what all those books and seminars and conferences and even songs are about! Evelyn Christenson, Gary Smalley, Charles Swindoll, etc.–all these great evangelicals write and speak about “methods” that will bring us close to God and help us to have a more abundant life.

I hope I have answered your question.

Hi Cat,
Mike is catholic that was origianly from Apophasis.

 

[clmowry]

Saving faith = a faith that saves

Well thanks, that was helpful. Well no, not really.

Having faith in Jesus Christ and all that He said and did saves us.

Well that’s a bit better.

So for you to have “Saving Faith” then you would have to "Love one another as I have loved you? For example?

 

[ALLFORHIM]

So for you to have “Saving Faith” then you would have to "Love one another as I have loved you? For example?

One can only follow that command after they have been saved.(justified, receive the HS).
While we are still serving our fleshly nature we are unable to love one another the way Christ wants us to.

Once we have the power of the HS we now have the power in us to enable us to follow that command.

Think about it if you are notputting God first and want to please Him–there is no way in BLEEP you are going to be able to follow the high standards God gave us to follow.

 

[NonDenom]

post continued

No, a Christian cannot lose salvation. Nothing can separate a Christian from God’s love (Romans 8:38-39). Nothing can remove a Christian from God’s hand (John 10:28-29). God is both willing and able to guarantee and maintain the salvation He has given us. Jude 24-25, “To Him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy - to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.”
Recommended Resource: Eternal Security by Charles Stanley.

Hi All
Just want to put my 2 cents in here. I think that the Bible is clear on this subject. I think that is safe to say that “REAL” Christians who understand what it means to be a Christian will not live a life full of sin.
This is the problem with alter calls and praying Jesus into your heart. Some believe that all you have to do is say a prayer and your in, like Joel Olsteen.
*1Co 9:27 No, I keep on beating my body and making it my slave so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not somehow be disqualified. *
Now why would Paul be affraid of “being Disqualified”? What is he affraid of being disqualified from? I would say Salvation.

Mar 4:17 but since they don’t have any roots in themselves, they last for only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes along because of the word, they immediately fall away.

Again, fall away from what? i would say salvation.

*Luk 8:13 The ones on the stony ground are the people who welcome the word with joy when they hear it. But since they don’t have any roots, they believe for a while, but in a time of testing they fall away. *

Again, fall from what?

*2Pe 3:17 And so, dear friends, since you already know these things, continually be on your guard not to be carried away by the deception of lawless people, lest you fall from your secure position. *

Again, fall from what?

Never losing your Salvation sound nice and comforting but if were going to hold to the teachings of the Scritures we need to hold to ALL of them and not just the ones sound good.
John 10-28 says that none shall pluck them from his hand, it doesn’t say that WE cannot jump out of His hand.
I believe that this over-easy approach to Salvation has been used to increase numbers in many church’s, but it’s not the right way to Salvation. If all we needed to was to say a prayer for Salvation the New Testament would be about 2 pages long.
In Him and Only him.