Evangelicals: How do you know you have "Saving Faith"?

[mikeledes]

Hi Cat,
Mike is catholic that was origianly from Apophasis.

Thank you for coming to my defense. The cat really scratched me there. uch: This is the second time in a week that I am a victim of friendly fire!

God Bless,
Michael

 

[mikeledes]

Hi All
Just want to put my 2 cents in here. I think that the Bible is clear on this subject. I think that is safe to say that “REAL” Christians who understand what it means to be a Christian will not live a life full of sin.
This is the problem with alter calls and praying Jesus into your heart. Some believe that all you have to do is say a prayer and your in, like Joel Olsteen.
*1Co 9:27 No, I keep on beating my body and making it my slave so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not somehow be disqualified. *
Now why would Paul be affraid of “being Disqualified”? What is he affraid of being disqualified from? I would say Salvation.

Mar 4:17 but since they don’t have any roots in themselves, they last for only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes along because of the word, they immediately fall away.

Again, fall away from what? i would say salvation.

*Luk 8:13 The ones on the stony ground are the people who welcome the word with joy when they hear it. But since they don’t have any roots, they believe for a while, but in a time of testing they fall away. *

Again, fall from what?

*2Pe 3:17 And so, dear friends, since you already know these things, continually be on your guard not to be carried away by the deception of lawless people, lest you fall from your secure position. *

Again, fall from what?

Never losing your Salvation sound nice and comforting but if were going to hold to the teachings of the Scritures we need to hold to ALL of them and not just the ones sound good.
John 10-28 says that none shall pluck them from his hand, it doesn’t say that WE cannot jump out of His hand.
I believe that this over-easy approach to Salvation has been used to increase numbers in many church’s, but it’s not the right way to Salvation. If all we needed to was to say a prayer for Salvation the New Testament would be about 2 pages long.
In Him and Only him.

It’s nice to here from Protestants who don’t believe in OSAS.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[Cat]

Sorry, mikeledes, the thread is getting convoluted. I hope my post made sense, though. I didn’t intend to scratch anyone, just give testimony.

 

[Sean_Boyle]

Hi All
Just want to put my 2 cents in here. I think that the Bible is clear on this subject. I think that is safe to say that “REAL” Christians who understand what it means to be a Christian will not live a life full of sin.
This is the problem with alter calls and praying Jesus into your heart. Some believe that all you have to do is say a prayer and your in, like Joel Olsteen.
*1Co 9:27 No, I keep on beating my body and making it my slave so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not somehow be disqualified. *
Now why would Paul be affraid of “being Disqualified”? What is he affraid of being disqualified from? I would say Salvation.

Mar 4:17 but since they don’t have any roots in themselves, they last for only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes along because of the word, they immediately fall away.

Again, fall away from what? i would say salvation.

*Luk 8:13 The ones on the stony ground are the people who welcome the word with joy when they hear it. But since they don’t have any roots, they believe for a while, but in a time of testing they fall away. *

Again, fall from what?

*2Pe 3:17 And so, dear friends, since you already know these things, continually be on your guard not to be carried away by the deception of lawless people, lest you fall from your secure position. *

Again, fall from what?

Never losing your Salvation sound nice and comforting but if were going to hold to the teachings of the Scritures we need to hold to ALL of them and not just the ones sound good.
John 10-28 says that none shall pluck them from his hand, it doesn’t say that WE cannot jump out of His hand.
I believe that this over-easy approach to Salvation has been used to increase numbers in many church’s, but it’s not the right way to Salvation. If all we needed to was to say a prayer for Salvation the New Testament would be about 2 pages long.
In Him and Only him.

Careful. Talk like that will makes you no better than the Catholic’s posting here. And it makes “being saved” beyond your reach according to some of the posters here.

Thanks for sharing the Truth as revealed by God. It always refreshing to hear.

 

[clmowry]

So “Saving Faith” is something yet to be defined that leads one to be justified and receive the Holy Spirit.

Then we can follow God’s commands?

So someone who doesn’t follow God’s commands must not have saving faith?

Chuck

ALLFORHIM:
One can only follow that command after they have been saved.(justified, receive the HS).
While we are still serving our fleshly nature we are unable to love one another the way Christ wants us to.

Once we have the power of the HS we now have the power in us to enable us to follow that command.

Think about it if you are notputting God first and want to please Him–there is no way in BLEEP you are going to be able to follow the high standards God gave us to follow.

 

[mikeledes]

Sorry, mikeledes, the thread is getting convoluted. I hope my post made sense, though. I didn’t intend to scratch anyone, just give testimony.

It’s okay! Actually, I though the post was pretty good!

God Bless,
Michael

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Thank you for coming to my defense. The cat really scratched me there. uch: This is the second time in a week that I am a victim of friendly fire!

God Bless,
Michael

Anytime

 

[guanophore]

I have to say though coming here has really made me mature as a christian.
I have learned to be more kind, patient and loving and less judgemental.

Oh and the biggest fruit of the Spirit that has grown within from being here: DRUMROLL PLEASE

SELF_CONTROL

Good for you ALLFORHIM 5 For this very reason **make every effort **to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, 6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, 7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:4-8

You are fruitbearing!

 

[mark_a]

How can we “Secure our Salvation” when nothing unclean (sin) can enter heaven? What if I commit a mortal sin and then suddenly die without having the time to confess this sin? Is my Salvation still secure?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but if you were sorry for your sin and intended to go to confession, you’ll be ok.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Good for you ALLFORHIM 5 For this very reason **make every effort **

to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, 6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, 7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:4-8

AMEN BRO!!!

 

[mrs_abbott]

So for you to have “Saving Faith” then you would have to "Love one another as I have loved you? For example?

That’s a good start.
ALLFORHIM did a good job explaining it.

 

[OneForTruth]

We are to have an assurance of our salvation. That is part of our strength. Are we to make certain of our calling and election, yes…2Pet 1:10

2 Peter 1:10 NAS95 10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;

Are we to test ourselves…yes…

2 Corinthians 13:5 Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you–unless indeed you fail the test?

Against what…there are plenty of criteria in the book of 1 John…Some of which are…

Hate sin…

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Love…

1Jo 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. {is born: Gr. has been born}

Believe on Christ as Lord and Savior…

1Jo 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. {is born: Gr. has been born}

Have overcome the world…

1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Keep commandments…

1 John 2:3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.

And there are more…

There are other bold statements in scripture…

1 John 5:19 We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

Hebrews 10:39 KJV 39 But **we are not of them **who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

We are the good seed in Matthew 13 - the parable of wheat and tares…the good of the parable of the dragnet in Matthew 13.

Take away assurance and you take away the joy of a Christian and their strength to serve to the degree that God wills for them to serve.

1 John 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

This verse means much for us…for, by Him and the Word of God, we have been changed!!

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

 

[Angainor]

Evangelicals: How do you know you have “Saving Faith”?

Jesus promised to forgive my sins.
Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and after blessing it broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, “Take, eat; this is my body.” And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, "Drink of it, all of you, for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
Matthew 26:26-28

 

[OneForTruth]

ALLFORHIM and others, I find this frightening.

As an evangelical, I too was taught that if someone goes out from among us, he was never with us.

I knew Christians who were ROCK SOLID, elders or deacons in the church, involved in teaching or even pastoral ministries, knowledgeable in the Bible and doctrine, involved with children’s or youth ministries, teaching new believers and old believers–and these people FELL AWAY from God and announced that they no longer believed in Jesus.

You have known people like this. If you haven’t, then you haven’t been in church for long.

If the doctrine is true, that they never knew Christ, then that is terrifying. We can NEVER, EVER trust ANYONE in the church.

Frankly, I would NEVER leave my children with anyone other than me. They might not be real Christians.

And how do I know that I won’t end up like these others?

Now I’m NOT talking about someone who accepts Christ at a Billy Graham Crusade, is miraculously delivered from an addictive sin, joins a church, starts teaching a Sunday School class (too early for a baby Christian, IMO), and brings everyone to tears with their stirring testimony, and then one year later falls back into their addiction, stops coming the church, and tells everyone that they just don’t believe it anymore.

I’m talking about the “pillars in the church,” people who have walked and talked among us for years, sometimes DECADES, and were accepted by all, including the pastors and elders, as Christians. THESE people fall away–you know they do.

Are you honestly saying that these people were NEVER Christians to begin with, and that ALL of the people in the church, including knowledgeable pastors, were deceived by them.

SHUDDER! Isn’t that scary to you?

In reference to the following parables…

Matthew 13:37-42 KJV 37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: 48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away. 49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, 50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

*Who is to say that some of these that got caught up in the net could not become those people who have so caused you great grief. About the tares…this is probably meant a degenerate kind of wheat, or the darnel grass growing in Palestine. In its growth and form it has a strong resemblance to genuine wheat. But it either produces no grain, or that of a very inferior and hurtful kind. Probably it comes near to what we mean by chaff. It was extremely difficult to separate it from the genuine wheat, on account of its similarity while growing. Thus it aptly represented hypocrites in the church. Strongly resembling Christians in their experience, and, in some respects, their lives, it is impossible to distinguish them from genuine Christians, nor can they be separated until it is done **by the great Searcher of hearts *at the day of judgment…unless they leave prior to that time. Just a reminder - we CANNOT know the heart of another no matter what we see on the outside.

 

[mdcpensive1]

I know I just didnt really feel like answering it at the time. You know how it is when you are asked the same questions but the answer hasnt really changed:shrug:

I know you guys know what Im talking about.

Maybe Ill answer it another time. I have to go to a baseball game right now. Have a good weekend

Pray for the Cardinals, they need it.

mdcpensive1

 

[japhy]

If you’re sure in your salvation, you don’t need Jesus anymore, since nothing can stop you from losing your salvation. So why do those who are sure in their salvation continue praying, reading Scripture, going to their church, etc.? Isn’t that redundant?

 

[apophasis]

If you’re sure in your salvation, you don’t need Jesus anymore, since nothing can stop you from losing your salvation. So why do those who are sure in their salvation continue praying, reading Scripture, going to their church, etc.? Isn’t that redundant?

Does a man stop loving his wife because he married her? Does a woman her husband? Do they stop talking now that they’re married?

Why would knowing you’re saved end a relationship? Those who, in unbelief, continue to seek it have never actually entered into it.

 

[japhy]

Does a man stop loving his wife because he married her? Does a woman her husband? Do they stop talking now that they’re married?

Why would knowing you’re saved end a relationship? Those who, in unbelief, continue to seek it have never actually entered into it.

We’re not talking about “once married, always married” or “once loved, always loved”.

If you are truly, certainly, absolutely saved, what more could Jesus possibly do for you?

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Pray for the Cardinals, they need it.

mdcpensive1

Are you from St. Louis? My family is out there. Ill be visiting in Aug.

 

[captaincoog]

Who is to say that some of these that got caught up in the net could not become those people who have so caused you great grief. About the tares…this is probably meant a degenerate kind of wheat, or the darnel grass growing in Palestine. In its growth and form it has a strong resemblance to genuine wheat. But it either produces no grain, or that of a very inferior and hurtful kind. Probably it comes near to what we mean by chaff. It was extremely difficult to separate it from the genuine wheat, on account of its similarity while growing. Thus it aptly represented hypocrites in the church. Strongly resembling Christians in their experience, and, in some respects, their lives, it is impossible to distinguish them from genuine Christians, nor can they be separated until it is done by the great Searcher of hearts at the day of judgment…unless they leave prior to that time. Just a reminder - we CANNOT know the heart of another no matter what we see on the outside.

A couple of points from the quote above by OneForTruth:

1). Protestants only accept an “invisible church” made up of “true Christians”. (This is to get around the idea of an hierarchical, visible structure that looks like the Catholic Church.) Any non-believers and false Christians are not part of this "true church’. Yet you are saying here that there are unbelievers in the true church? This necessitates a visible organisation that has both true believers and hypocrites in it to be the Church spoken of in that parable. Only one Church fits the bill for having lots of hypocrites among the believers ; only one Church intended by Our Lord.

1. You can’t distinguish between the true and the false? So how do you know who has the authority in the Church? For now lets just take it for granted that you have some way of knowing for certain that you are a true believer. but what about everyone else around you?

Your Bible study group?
Your particular ministry team?
Your Pastor??
Nope. There’s no way to know for sure.

So you admit the possiblilty of your own Pastor not being a true believer. If he is not a true believer, he does not have the Holy Spirit to guide him in his interpretation of Scripture. I am not saying yes or no on this point; I’m just saying that there’s absolutely no way to tell, correct? So if he did not have the Holy Spirit, he is most certainly coming to a wrong understanding of Scripture. It’s a most difficult Book to understand. It says so itself.

St Peter warns us that some men twist the Scriptures to their own destruction. It is possible, nay, most likely, that a wrong interpretation of the Bible can lead your soul to everlasting damnation.

I am not putting words into your mouth. I am not trying to be clever. I am drawing out your own beliefs to expand on their implications.

Please give this some more thought.