Evangelicals treading toward gay marriage?

[andrewstx]

Wouldn’t the better comparison be between “confessional” Anglicans and “confessional” Lutherans? Although, each sub group within that term would claim to be “really” the confessional ones.

Basically there are no confessional Anglicans, they have no confession to speak of. The closest thing is the 39 Articles and no Anglican aside from CofE ordinands are required to believe them. What holds Anglicans together is the Book of Common Prayer and to a lesser extent Episcopal polity.

If a LCMS becomes Roman or Orthodox, what is the LCMS position about their priesthood?

 

[QuestLove]

I am surprised the percentages for catholics and african americans are so high (relatively) compared to white evangelicals. I would have thought the trend would be the reverse.

 

[clintonm]

I am not so surprised. Like an earlier poster mentioned, many “Catholics” operate without an understanding of what it means to actually be a Catholic. I will offer a caveat here that I am hardly a perfect Catholic myself but I am always attempting to learn things.

 

[4Squarebaby]

I am surprised the percentages for catholics and african americans are so high (relatively) compared to white evangelicals. I would have thought the trend would be the reverse.

In many Black homes a JFK like shrine went up for Barack Obama on that Wednesday in November 2008. Politics trumps religious leaders and doctrine for most, Catholic or African American.

President Obama de-evolved to be for same sex marriage again. You can’t claim that almost all opposition to Obama is because of his race, otherwise we would be adding a head to Mount Rushmore as soon as he leaves office and then be against one of his major political wins, as the President sees it. It is more shameful that his abortion record was dismissed in 2008, but the record along with those other Democrats with similar abortion records have had their positions dismissed since Roe versus Wade.

 

[clintonm]

What surprises me the most about the political process in the US is how the Catholic community is responsible for electing Pro-Death candidates. Prior to the 2008 election I had a conversation with a Priest. He mentioned he would be voting for Obama, I asked him why he would vote for Obama and how he could reconcile his stance on abortion especially as a priest. The response I got was that he felt there were more and greater issues this country faces beyond abortion. I was floored.

If we had not murdered over 56 million babies since 1973 we would not have a deficit, we would not have so many unfunded social programs because we would have enough workers for the systems, we would not need to import vast numbers of unskilled labor from other parts of the world to disregard our laws. Many of the social issues that we face as a nation today would not exist. If we did not accept abortion and understood that life is so important we would understand the structure of family and its value and homosexual marriage wouldn’t be a topic.

I believe it was St. John Paul II who, while Pope, said (paraphrasing) that any claim to social rights of men and women to accord them liberty is meaningless in a society that supports abortion as the primary right, the right to life, when denied to the most innocent is never extended to anyone else. All other rights and liberties fade from that point.

 

[PRmerger]

*protesters.

Huh?

But, once again, I shall remind you that the First Reformers didn’t believe in a doctrinal free-for-all.

You are correct. They advocated snipping oneself from the Branch (because they thought the Branch was rotting).

So, what each of these men/women who leave a church and start their own denomination are doing is the same thing: snipping oneself off from this branch because they believe the branch is rotting.

 

[PRmerger]

Why must we ascribe “good motives” to the Catholics who bless what God has forbade and ascribe “negative motives” to Protestants who do the same? Both groups are in open rebellion of God’s law and the truth contained in what both agree is divine revelation. Trying to exonerate Catholics while taking shots at Protestants is really ridiculous.

I don’t understand–what are we blessing that God has forbidden? And what Catholics have been exonerated?

 

[steido01]

I don’t understand–what are we blessing that God has forbidden? And what Catholics have been exonerated?

See what you wrote in Post #48. It’s contradictory in the least, and comes across as a bit hypocritical. Roman Catholics in favor of gay “marriage” are simply “misguided,” while non-Roman Catholics in favor of gay marriage -even if their communion teaches otherwise- are guilty of heresy. Whoa, now. Why are Roman Catholics absolved of their heresy while the same courtesy is not extended to non-Roman Catholic Christians? Why the double standard?

 

[PRmerger]

Catholics are already majority liberal, but the Church is not.

Exactly.

And when a Catholic has divorced himself from the Faith, given once for all, to the Church, he is being a bad Catholic.

But when a Protestant has divorced himself from his faith, then he is simply being a good Protest-or, or good Protestant.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Should I have said “not remain” instead of dying?

Remain against gay marriage as a body, not existence.

 

[frobert]

What surprises me the most about the political process in the US is how the Catholic community is responsible for electing Pro-Death candidates. Prior to the 2008 election I had a conversation with a Priest. He mentioned he would be voting for Obama, I asked him why he would vote for Obama and how he could reconcile his stance on abortion especially as a priest. The response I got was that he felt there were more and greater issues this country faces beyond abortion. I was floored.

If we had not murdered over 56 million babies since 1973 we would not have a deficit, we would not have so many unfunded social programs because we would have enough workers for the systems, we would not need to import vast numbers of unskilled labor from other parts of the world to disregard our laws. Many of the social issues that we face as a nation today would not exist. If we did not accept abortion and understood that life is so important we would understand the structure of family and its value and homosexual marriage wouldn’t be a topic.

I believe it was St. John Paul II who, while Pope, said (paraphrasing) that any claim to social rights of men and women to accord them liberty is meaningless in a society that supports abortion as the primary right, the right to life, when denied to the most innocent is never extended to anyone else. All other rights and liberties fade from that point.

Did you discuss the issues with the priest? If you did perhaps you would have a better balance perspective of American’s social ills.

 

[steido01]

Exactly.

And when a Catholic has divorced himself from the Faith, given once for all, to the Church, he is being a bad Catholic.

But when a Protestant has divorced himself from his faith, then he is simply being a good Protest-or, or good Protestant.

Source.

If you’re going to make a statement as bold as your second sentence, you’re going to need to back it up. Please provide examples of “Protestant” churches officially stating that dissension from their official church teaching is to be encouraged (Bear in mind that dissension cannot exist in the absence of a religious opinion on a given topic).

PR, do you truly not see the absurdity in your argument? You’re presuming, incorrectly, that “Protestants” don’t owe allegiance to the authority ruling their given communion. This demonstrates either an unfortunate misunderstanding of other churches or a deliberate attempt to negatively characterize non-Roman Catholic communions. In this case, you’re wordsmithing the verb ‘protest’ and the meaningless umbrella term ‘Protestant.’ It’s intellectually lacking and, if done intentionally, dishonest.

The truth is that people, no matter what communion they belong to, are beholden to the beliefs of their given communion. A [Roman Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran, Presbyterian, etc.] who rejects their church’s teaching is a bad [Roman Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran, Presbyterian, etc.]. Period.

 

[PRmerger]

Did you discuss the issues with the priest? If you did perhaps you would have a better balance perspective of American’s social ills.

Better balance than 55 million innocent people being slaughtered in their mothers’ wombs?

What other issues go on the scale of that monstrous statistic?

lifenews.com/2013/01/18/55772015-abortions-in-america-since-roe-vs-wade-in-1973/

 

[frobert]

Better balance than 55 million innocent people being slaughtered in their mothers’ wombs?

What other issues go on the scale of that monstrous statistic?

lifenews.com/2013/01/18/55772015-abortions-in-america-since-roe-vs-wade-in-1973/

As tragic as abortion is, the poster ranted on about America’s social ills which I was questioning. I know your are aware that Pope Francis is saying don’t focus entirely on abortion and homosexual marriage and get back to the work of the Church.

 

[clintonm]

You saw it as a rant. I can guide you to why losing 56+ million babies, as of this moment, leads to social ills. Any society that is willing to kill that many innocent babies, any society willing to condone that behavior as normal is a society that is sick, everything else is merely a symptom. So I was just expressing those symptoms one after another, like any doctor would when trying to diagnose a sick patient. When you identify the root cause you can cure the sickness.

Now we can argue about whether our society is sick and to what degree that sickness is or isn’t.

 

[PRmerger]

As tragic as abortion is, the poster ranted on about America’s social ills which I was questioning.

There is no greater social ill than 55 million innocent lives slaughtered in their mothers’ wombs.

I know your are aware that Pope Francis is saying don’t focus entirely on abortion and homosexual marriage and get back to the work of the Church.

Amen! The CC ought not focus entirely on abortion and homosexual marriage. This is true.

Also, can you cite the source, please? And I would recommend reading it in its entirety.

Incidentally, did you know that Pope Francis is against homosexual marriage as well as abortion?

 

[frobert]

There is no greater social ill than 55 million innocent lives slaughtered in their mothers’ wombs.

Amen! The CC ought not focus entirely on abortion and homosexual marriage. This is true.

Also, can you cite the source, please? And I would recommend reading it in its entirety.

Incidentally, did you know that Pope Francis is against homosexual marriage as well as abortion?

It was a general phase that I remembe , but I am sure you can look it up if you are interested.

You already know that I am not of the Catholic faith. Certainly, I am interested in what Pope Francis and I do read a lot of blogs and newspapers. A tidbit, I did discuss the Pope’s divergence with the Pastor at the local Catholic Church. That discussion was a lot more pleasant than most of the discussions in some of CAF threads.

 

[frobert]

You saw it as a rant. I can guide you to why losing 56+ million babies, as of this moment, leads to social ills. Any society that is willing to kill that many innocent babies, any society willing to condone that behavior as normal is a society that is sick, everything else is merely a symptom. So I was just expressing those symptoms one after another, like any doctor would when trying to diagnose a sick patient. When you identify the root cause you can cure the sickness.

Now we can argue about whether our society is sick and to what degree that sickness is or isn’t.

I don’t doubt that you were discussing social ills. I was unable to see any balance as to the causes. I know it is a hackneyed saying but here goes anyway, “if the only tool you have is a hammer then everything looks like a nail.” I don’t want to hijack the thread so I will wait for a thread on social ills to discuss social ills.

 

[ltwin]

I don’t understand–what are we blessing that God has forbidden? And what Catholics have been exonerated?

Not all Catholics. I’m referring to Catholics who support SSM and affirm homosexuality against the teachings of their church. Please refer to the actual train of comments and see if you can’t see why Protestants might be offended at the tone of some of these posts:

If they polled those Evangelicals and asked them “is it appropriate to throw a gay child out of the house?” I’d imagine the “yes” votes drive most of the anti-SSM stuff. In other words, they still pick and choose what parts of the Bible they follow – it’s just that they already really, really dislike gays so that’s a very easy part of the Bible for them to follow.

On the other hand, Catholics are taught love, compassion, and respect, and so many Catholics mistakenly take this and apply it to a “live-and-let-live” attitude.

This has nothing to do with which organization “teaches” better so much as it does the fundamental values of the organizations.

So, when Catholics are pro-homosexuality they are just misguided Catholics trying to live out the love of Christ. When evangelicals are pro-homosexuality, it’s obviously because their heresy of Sola Scriptura has led them into deception.

On the other hand, when Catholics are anti-homosexuality, they are being faithful to the Christian faith while lovingly calling on those trapped in homosexual sin back to holiness of life. When evangelicals do the same thing, it’s just because they are inherently haters of anyone who acknowledges that they struggle with this temptation.

??? Really??? The cognitive dissonance displayed in these posts confounds me.

Yes. Because they are merely being good Protest-ors and following in the paradigm of the First Reformers.

So, PRmerger, please explain to me how being Catholic and pro-SSM is somehow more noble and (misguidedly) Christ-like while being Protestant and pro-Scripture is being hateful towards gay and lesbian people?

It’s possible that you just didn’t really read the post I was responding to or it’s possible that you agree with SMGS127’s shameless and unnecessary attack (with no basis except their own biases) on evangelicals who adhere to the word of God.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Not all Catholics. I’m referring to Catholics who support SSM and affirm homosexuality against the teachings of their church. Please refer to the actual train of comments and see if you can’t see why Protestants might be offended at the tone of some of these posts:

So, PRmerger, please explain to me how being Catholic and pro-SSM is somehow more noble and (misguidedly) Christ-like while being Protestant and pro-Scripture is being hateful towards gay and lesbian people?

It’s possible that you just didn’t really read the post I was responding to or it’s possible that you agree with SMGS127’s shameless and unnecessary attack (with no basis except their own biases) on evangelicals who adhere to the word of God.

From my perspective it is not “more noble” to ignore the Church’s clear teaching on the matter; however, a Catholic cannot then find or found another Catholic Church that will actually do what they like. You must admit that the Evangelical ecclesial buffet has a bit more variety than any Catholic diner, even including the fast-food Catholic variety.