Evangelicals Will Be Extinct Within Ten Years

[rinnie]

Hi Rinnie!

I haven’t had a chance to read your post. Just read the last one where Marsha was quoting you. I’ll be back this evening.

This is not “debate” for me. I really need to know if you believe God’s Word or not.
Once again, I post Romans 5/6, and not a word from you about it. How much of God’s Word do you feel it’s ok to ignore? Do you believe it all, or do you pick and choose what you want to believe, and what fits your particular church doctrine?

Hi Ag. Romans 5:6 Are you asking me if I believe that we are all redeemed by CHrist’s death on the Cross?

If thats what you are asking sure I do. Christ did die on the cross once and for all and appeared into heaven on our behalf. I agree totally. Christ more then provided for our salvation. But here is the big but now, that does not mean that we do not have a process to go through as individuals.

Like I told you before we would have been born saved with no need to be born again. Since we were not, since it is necessary for those who hear the gospel to repent and embrace it, there is a time at which we come to be reconciled with God. And if so we like Adam and eve can become unreconciled with God and like the prodigal son need to come back and be reconciled again with God after having left his family.

Did Adam and Eve also receive Free Grace from God and then turn around and lose it?

I am not saying that you cannot be assured of your salvation, The NT teaches us that genuine assurance is possible and desirable but it also teaches us that there is a false assurance. Matt 7:21 Jesus declared Not everone whos says to me Lord Lord shall enter the Kingdom of heaven.

Salvation CAN be lost through mortal sin.

We cannot have a certitude of our own salvation. There is the possibility of self-decption Matt 7:22-23.

Assurance we may have, but infallible certitude we may not. Philippians 2:12 says work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

Hope you can really read this, and concentrate on what we are being told. What I am saying is yes by his death Jesus made it possible,but its up to us to keep it . He more or less gave us all the Tools to do it (grace, love, the sacraments) but we have to turn to him and use the tools. Other wise it would be in vain (would it not?)

So do you see now why I hope I am not in sin, but like Paul I don’t know for sure. Only God knows is if I am or not. That is why I pray, confess, repent, and try as hard as I can to live by the ten commandments. But Jesus did not say that by his death we are guaranteed salvation, he set us free from sin yes I agree, now we have to keep ourself free from it.

That is why he left us the Church.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

Hi Rinnie!

I haven’t had a chance to read your post. Just read the last one where Marsha was quoting you. I’ll be back this evening.

This is not “debate” for me. I really need to know if you believe God’s Word or not.
Once again, I post Romans 5/6, and not a word from you about it. How much of God’s Word do you feel it’s ok to ignore? Do you believe it all, or do you pick and choose what you want to believe, and what fits your particular church doctrine?

I believe God’s Word. For example,

James 2
8If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Galatians 5
16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: **of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. ** 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

 

[rinnie]

Rinnie:

You read my post too quickly. I will post it again below and use colors

My position is diametrically opposed to Always’ position.

By the way Marsha, Sorry, My mistake:blush: Meant to tell ya earlier. Got sidetracked!

 

[Marsha_Adams]

By the way Marsha, Sorry, My mistake:blush: Meant to tell ya earlier. Got sidetracked!

No problem. I often attribute this person’s thought to that other person, and embarass myself. It’s easy enough to do.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

Always:

Hebrews 6:4-6, “For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”

2 Peter 2:20-22, “For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.”

Hebrews 10:26 “For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.”

 

[Marsha_Adams]

Always:

This link defendingthebride.com/mo/salvation.html will take you to an article which proves using the Bible that Once Saved Always Saved is a false doctrine.

 

[xixxvmcm85]

I don’t have anything to add to this conversation, as I don’t know anything about this trend in affiliation. I did though feel compelled to ask about this:

That is not a trusted website.

CNN is not a trusted news source, but the Christian Science Monitor is?

 

[Marsha_Adams]

ICNN is not a trusted news source, but the Christian Science Monitor is?

XIXX:

If you noticed, I didn’t get anywhere near that exchange. Also, the direction of the thread has veered drastically off course since then. Fortunately no one has really noticed or complained, so we are now meandering through the OSAS quagmire. Nevertheless, regardless of Christian Science Monitor’s religious roots, it does have the reputation for excellent journalism. I do not read it myself, but I know several very intelligent people of all religious persuasions including athiests who speak highly of the CSM. CNN is on a completely different scale, so I really don’t think the two can be compared - rather like lemons and avocados.

Anyway, welcome to our thread.

 

[always_gr8ful]

Always:

Hebrews 6:4-6, “For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”

2 Peter 2:20-22, “For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.”

Hebrews 10:26 “For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.”

Hi Marsha and Rinnie.
Reading backward, I assure you I will leave no stone unturned.

Hebrews 6:4-6 - I have seen exactly this that Paul is speaking of; once-believers who have turned their back on their faith. They have hardened their hearts so that nothing can get in. It will be interesting to learn (in Heaven) if THEY hardened their hearts, or if God did it for them based on Hebrews 6. No matter which, this scripture does not say that they lost their salvation.

Hebrews 10:26 - Since you bring this scripture up, just know that THIS is what I worry about should you continue in your doctrine after learning the Truth. What y’all are saying to Jesus is that He didn’t do enough, and you have “trampled the Son of God under foot, you have treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified you, and you have insulted the Spirit of grace.” (verse 29)

How do we know that Paul is talking about you? Because above this verse it says “By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”(verse 10) and “For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.”(verse 14)
Read it in it’s entirety here in the Message Bible (but you can change to any version in the drop-down menu) in every-day language. It starts under the heading “DON’T THROW IT ALL AWAY”

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews%2010;&version=65;

 

[always_gr8ful]

2 Peter 2:20-22, “For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.”

Again, this verse does not say those who have turned away will lose their salvation.

It is, however, a reminder in this conversation that once you know the Truth (the Finished Work of the death and resurrection of Jesus), you are responsible for that knowledge.

 

[always_gr8ful]

What a blessing you all are to me - to be doing this instead of my routine of watching the world news of the day! After this, I hope I remember how much more profitable it is to study the Word then watch the news.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

Again, this verse does not say those who have turned away will lose their salvation.

It is, however, a reminder in this conversation that once you know the Truth (the Finished Work of the death and resurrection of Jesus), you are responsible for that knowledge.

Always:

If they have not lost their salvation why does it say “For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.”?

 

[Marsha_Adams]

Hi Marsha and Rinnie.
Reading backward, I assure you I will leave no stone unturned.

Hebrews 6:4-6 - I have seen exactly this that Paul is speaking of; once-believers who have turned their back on their faith. They have hardened their hearts so that nothing can get in. It will be interesting to learn (in Heaven) if THEY hardened their hearts, or if God did it for them based on Hebrews 6. No matter which, this scripture does not say that they lost their salvation.

Hebrews 10:26 - Since you bring this scripture up, just know that THIS is what I worry about should you continue in your doctrine after learning the Truth. What y’all are saying to Jesus is that He didn’t do enough, and you have “trampled the Son of God under foot, you have treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified you, and you have insulted the Spirit of grace.” (verse 29)

How do we know that Paul is talking about you? Because above this verse it says “By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”(verse 10) and “For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.”(verse 14)
Read it in it’s entirety here in the Message Bible (but you can change to any version in the drop-down menu) in every-day language. It starts under the heading “DON’T THROW IT ALL AWAY”

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews%2010;&version=65;

Always:

I am going to put you on “ignore” now. I’ve shown you what Scripture says, but you are more intent on twisting it all out of context rather than to admit that OSAS is a false doctrine. I leave you to your own vomit.

 

[always_gr8ful]

I believe God’s Word. For example,

“For example”, or all of it?

(verses posted about our Walk) If you are of the impression that I don’t believe we go through a process of sanctification, then you missed my (much) earlier posts to this thread. Sanctification is part of what God puts in us when we believe, a willingness and desire to do what He said to do, like keep His commandments, because we love Him and want to please Him. It is not salvation. It is a process of renewal and growth in Christ.

Galatians 5
16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: **of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. ** 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Does one who is saved practice (or work) adultery, fornication, hatred, strife, etc.?
Oh! You know what? This might be the biggest clue to the question of once saved always saved (I’m still looking). I know someone who said they were saved and then turned their back on the faith, and they do truly “work” hatred and strife. But, (big but), we would have to assume that she was being truthful when she said she was once saved. So, the question remains…

 

[always_gr8ful]

Always:

I am going to put you on “ignore” now. I’ve shown you what Scripture says, but you are more intent on twisting it all out of context rather than to admit that OSAS is a false doctrine. I leave you to your own vomit.

I am not posting opinion. You pick and choose a line of scripture, and I filled in the rest that was missing.

There is a two-fold reason I post scripture instead of commentary only.

“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”
~Hebrews 4:12

and

“So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.”
~Isaiah 55:11

 

[always_gr8ful]

Hi Ag. Romans 5:6 Are you asking me if I believe that we are all redeemed by CHrist’s death on the Cross? If thats what you are asking sure I do. Christ did die on the cross once and for all and appeared into heaven on our behalf. I agree totally. Christ more then provided for our salvation.

Actually, that’s Romans chapter 5 and 6 that I can’t get anyone to read or comment on, so I don’t know if it’s being ignored or not believed. It says so much more than Christ died on the Cross for our behalf.

But here is the big but now, that does not mean that we do not have a process to go through as individuals.

Like I told you before we would have been born saved with no need to be born again.

Then the choice would have been taken away, and we would all be, at best, robots, preprogrammed to do the will of God.

Since we were not, since it is necessary for those who hear the gospel to repent and embrace it, there is a time at which we come to be reconciled with God. And if so we like Adam and eve can become unreconciled with God and like the prodigal son need to come back and be reconciled again with God after having left his family.

Did Adam and Eve also receive Free Grace from God and then turn around and lose it?.

I couldn’t tell you because you are talking about original sin. But I can tell you that God provided the answer to original sin in His Son before the earth was created. How did Adam and Eve become reconciled again with God? By Grace, or by the first animal burnt offering?

I am not saying that you cannot be assured of your salvation, The NT teaches us that genuine assurance is possible and desirable but it also teaches us that there is a false assurance. Matt 7:21 Jesus declared Not everyone whos says to me Lord Lord shall enter the Kingdom of heaven.?.

You can turn on some so-called Christian broadcasting and see live examples of some who use the Name of the Lord for their profit that have no Truth in them.

Salvation CAN be lost through mortal sin.

We cannot have a certitude of our own salvation. There is the possibility of self-decption Matt 7:22-23.
Assurance we may have, but infallible certitude we may not. Philippians 2:12 says work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

Matt. 7:22-23 is the rest of 7:21, already noted.
Philippians 1:12 doesn’t say work** for **your salvation, and that seems to be the word you are replacing “out” with. We know that the Bible does not contradict itself, and there is no scripture anywhere that says we must work for our salvation, so attributing the words “work out” as “work for” is completely foreign to all that is said before and after that line of scripture. However, if you didn’t know all that is said about our salvation before and after this line, it might be easy to think it says there is something we have to do to earn our salvation. Reading in context:

"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

"For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

"Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

"That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

“Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.”
~ Philippians 2:12-16

In it’s context, we have a pep talk to the Philippians telling them that the desire they have in them now was put there by God, and to walk it out, work it, do it!

Hope you can really read this, and concentrate on what we are being told. What I am saying is yes by his death Jesus made it possible,but its up to us to keep it…

But Jesus did not say that by his death we are guaranteed salvation, he set us free from sin yes I agree, now we have to keep ourself free from it…
That is why he left us the Church.

If you could show me in God’s Word where He said that, this would be an entirely different conversation.

 

[always_gr8ful]

acts 2:37 Now when they heard this they asked PETER and the other APOSTLES WHAT ARE WE TO DO? PETER said to them. REPENT AND BE BAPTISED EVERYONE OF YOU.

Now looks to me like we gotta do something. Of course you will try as you have to turn this around too, by the way I ain’t buying what you are selling. Your scripture intrepretation is not what the Church teaches,
Now again either you are right, and I do not have to do anything to keep my Salvation, or Peter is right and I have to REPENT! (Not too bad for a blind person huh)

Rinnie, I’m not here for debate. Just spreading a Truth around. It’s part of that sanctification process, ya know.

Acts 2:5-6 “And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.”

Setting the events of that day, these men came to see what all the noise was about, which was the Holy Spirit gift of tongues. It is to these men that Peter is speaking.

Acts 2:14 "But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: …

Peter goes on to explain about the last days as was spoken by the prophet Joel. He then says:

Acts 2:21 "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. "

Now, does Peter say whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord, repents and is baptized shall be saved? No.

Continuing:

22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. "

Peter just gave these devout Jews a tongue lashing (pardon the pun). The devout Jews were “pricked in their heart”, and sorry for what they had done to Jesus. “What shall we do?” they asked. Peter - “Repent and be baptized”. Has nothing to do with salvation, which he already said to “Call on the Name of the Lord and you will be saved.”

Now either you are right, and there is nothing I can do to fall from Grace, now lets say you are right, then why would Peter tell me I have to repent. Why would Jesus tell me that I have to pray? Especially in the Lords Prayer. That really gets me. Forgive us our trespasses. Why. Isn’t asking for forgiveness doing something to save us. But according to you we are already saved by the death of Jesus. Not to mention the ten commandments guess I can ignore them too?

Repentance, praying, asking forgiveness, keeping God’s Commandments, these are all things we do because we love Him. They are all acts of obedience in reverence to our Creator. Do you feel you “have to do them” as you say? Or do you actually WANT to do them because you love God and are so very thankful for the Gift He has given you? God doesn’t want robots, He wants genuine worship and praise and He wants to be a part of our lives. He made us born to worship, and when we are saved, He gives us the Holy Spirit so that we are able to follow Him in the plan He has for us.

And if you don’t think we were born to worship, just look around. People who don’t have Jesus worship money, food, their bodies or causes.

But we gotta do our part to keep the slate clean. Ask Peter he will tell you. Why did Peter not say, when asked what do we do, Nothing, Jesus died for your sin, you do nothing. Read acts start with Chapter 2. He said repent, he said save yourselves from this corrupt generation. What did those people do in acts? They sold everything and helped eachother. They went to Church they broke bread in their homes. they confessed their sin. I am sure to Peter. (but you got me there that is not written, just what we call common sense).

Again in acts 3:19 Peter said again REPENT and BE CONVERTED that your sins may be wiped away. Isn’t repenting again doing something to get rid of sin. Why do you deny that we have to do that? (by the way when Peter said that, wasn’t Jesus already back in heaven? They why were they not automatically saved. They did believe in Jesus did they not? Why didn’t Peter just say get Baptized. oops theres that word again repent!

Again answer me this why did Peter tell us we have to repent if we cannot lose salvation? Why are we repenting? You never answered that.

Acts 3: Peter left the crowd of devout Jews and from there went to the gate of the city and healed a man, which drew a crowd of Jews. Reading the scripture In context, was Peter saying the exact same thing to these Jews who had just killed Christ?

Please explain that to me. Did Jesus or did he not give the Apostles the authority to forgive sin. Now where did Jesus say that we can forgive our own sins, where did he say we do not have to repent. Where did he say we can do this on our own.

Yes, He did give THEM authority. No others that I see in scripture, including the Church or priests. We can’t forgive our own sins. If we have accepted His gift of Grace, HE has forgiven ALL our sins. The Work of the Cross is finished. We can do nothing on our own because it is already finished. Everytime you say it’s not enough, you are, as Paul says, continually re crucifying Christ again and again! Jesus Christ died once and for all your sins.

I think I answered all your questions with scripture and I hope that you will investigate yourself. If I missed any questions that aren’t explained above, let me know.

 

[always_gr8ful]

I found this tonight and thought it sounded a lot like what I’ve been saying:

Romans 1:16

*"…for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first and also to the Greek." *

“Over the years, I have taught to be aware of what is not in Scripture that many of us think should be. Well, here is a good one. Let me read this verse the way a lot of people think it should have been written. This is just an example: “For it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that repents, and is baptized, joins the church, gives ten percent of his income, does good works, and believes.” But it doesn’t say that does it? There are a lot of these things that people just automatically think are requirements for Salvation, and they’re not! They are all right in their rightful place after Salvation. But so far as our salvation is concerned it’s based totally upon our faith in the Gospel, and what God has said concerning the finished work of the Cross.”
(end post)​

I can see how a learned student of the Bible may “fill in the blanks” so to speak with what they know or think they know at times, so I can imagine how it must be to read God’s Word when you have church doctrine filling in the blanks. It at least helps me understand why what is clear to me is not clear to you.

I count myself blessed (not saying you are not blessed) that I didn’t have any dogma (religious belief) before approaching the Bible, other than the belief that Jesus loved me, God was real, and so was hell (Baptist Sunday school as a kid). Oh! And that Angels watched over kids crossing bridges in storms. I LOVED that artwork.

 

[whizkid43]

.
I’m of the mind once saved, always saved. I haven’t found that giant eraser from the Book of Life in scripture yet. But I’m not done looking.

Hi always gr8ful.

I have one question about this and I always hesistate to ask… just because. If this has already been answered please point me to the answer and I’ll go there.

In reference to your statement above about OSAS. What about the letters to the seven churchs in Revelation and the statement at the end of Revelation.

There seems to be a pattern where the Churches did God’s will, got lax and are being warned to return to God’s will or suffer the consequences. At the end of Revelation there is pretty direct threat not to add to the Word of God or be removed from the Tree of Life.

Revelation 2:4-5
Revelation 2:14-15
Revelation 2:20-24
Revelation 3:2-4
Revelation 3:15-19
Revelation 3:22
Revelation 22:18-19

 

[rinnie]

Hi Marsha and Rinnie.
Reading backward, I assure you I will leave no stone unturned.

Hebrews 6:4-6 - I have seen exactly this that Paul is speaking of; once-believers who have turned their back on their faith. They have hardened their hearts so that nothing can get in. It will be interesting to learn (in Heaven) if THEY hardened their hearts, or if God did it for them based on Hebrews 6. No matter which, this scripture does not say that they lost their salvation.

Hebrews 10:26 - Since you bring this scripture up, just know that THIS is what I worry about should you continue in your doctrine after learning the Truth. What y’all are saying to Jesus is that He didn’t do enough, and you have “trampled the Son of God under foot, you have treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified you, and you have insulted the Spirit of grace.” (verse 29)

How do we know that Paul is talking about you? Because above this verse it says “By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”(verse 10) and “For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.”(verse 14)
Read it in it’s entirety here in the Message Bible (but you can change to any version in the drop-down menu) in every-day language. It starts under the heading “DON’T THROW IT ALL AWAY”

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews%2010;&version=65;

Hi Always lets start here. Why do you keep saying that because we believe that if we turn our back on Christ and choose to disobey his commandments, that means Jesus didn’t do enough. How does our free will take away what Jesus did for us on the Cross. I can’t stress to you enough that we know what Jesus did, if not for his cross we could not get into heaven. But you seem to deny that we have obey his commandments. You feel that he died and thats it. Again I will ask you why then did he tell us we must obey his commandments. If his cross was enough, why did he leave us rules to follow? Why do I have to do anything at all, Because if Jesus did it all and everyone that believes in him will be saved, How are we going to have peace someday with the devil in the picture. The devil is probally one of the biggest believers in God in the world. And he not only believes in what Jesus did on the cross he saw it with his own eyes. So if what you are saying is true we are screwed because the devil’s saved too. Thats how I know you are wrong. Jesus did not save everyone by his cross. Why if he did is there heaven and hell. or do you deny hell?