Evangelicals Will Be Extinct Within Ten Years

[Roman_Catholic_1]

“In essentials - Unity, in nonessentials - Liberty, and in all things Charity”, but I do know this is an essential and I pray that hearts are opened to God’s Word.

Always, where can I find the list of the “essentials” and “non-essentials” in the Bible and where it says in Scripture that it is okay to disagree on these “non-essentials”?

You also never answered this question:

What were the standards that I am to use to determine what writings are scriptural and which are not. And since you insist that we cannot go out side the Scriptures; I want these standards that you give me to be from the Bible. I will except nothing else.

God bless

 

[always_gr8ful]

“You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?”
~Galatians 3:1-3

"For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;"
~Titus 3:3-6

“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.”
~Ephesians 2:8-10

Yes, it’s true we must be perfect to stand before God, but scripture is clear that we can’t reach perfection though the law or works.

So what did Jesus mean when He said “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” Again, scripture is clear:

**"Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."
~John 6:28-29**

"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."
~John 3:36

We obey completely the will of the Father to believe in Jesus Christ alone for eternal salvation because we will never be perfect and fit to stand before Him. It is only through Jesus alone that all sins, past, present and future are forgiven. If we don’t believe this, we have not done or are doing the will of the Father.

“Lord, Lord have we not prophesied, cast out demons, and done many wonders in Your name” are most likely are people who are may have been baptized, prayed and witnessed and done what they thought were many deeds which made them think that they were probably saved. Notice that Jesus does not question whether they actually did such works. Yet He rebukes them for not doing the Father’s will and He denies them kingdom entrance. Those who do not believe in Christ alone for their salvation have failed to do the will of the Father.

It is a sad possibility that some in the “works are the will of the Father” camp have never placed their trust in Christ alone. They may go to their graves preaching passages like Matthew 7:21-23 only to find out that Jesus was talking about them, not someone else.
I hope and pray that such people wake up before it is too late.

Do you believe in the Jesus of the Bible? The Lamb of God that takes away all our sins? The One who justified us and made us perfect and righteous though His death and resurrection so that we may stand before Him holy and perfect?

One last thing. Jesus said “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you”. Never knew you.

 

[TheWhoFreak]

Ok. Let’s look at what God’s Word says about your answers

This reminds me of a point I want to bring up but I don’t know if it has been discussed already. always gr8ful, where did you get the Bible from? Yes, you got it from a bookstore, but where did the Bible originate? The Catholic Church is where the Bible originated. You can pontificate all you want about how the Holy Spirit simply guided some believers in the right direction, but that doesn’t change the fact that they were all Catholic. I’m sure you don’t belive me, but Early Church Fathers back me up. Heck, even Martin Luther said that all Protestants owe a debt to the Catholic Church for discovering the Bible. So let’s face it. The Catholic Church has God’s Divine Authority no matter how you slice it. This should show you why we believe the Church to be infallible; if the Church is guided by God, and we go to the Church, are we not going to God as well, through the Church? God usually acts in society through men. Look at Jesus, Paul, and the saints, all who were important figures of their time. They were all humans. If God works 99.99% of the time through our fellow man, wouldn’t it make sense for God to install a place on Earth where us humans have direct access to Him and His Presence? Hence, the Catholic Church

***As well, if you claim to accept the Bible as Divinely Inspired, you also claim to accept the Catholic Church’s authority. It was the Catholic Church that decided which books of Scripture were “God-breathed” and which weren’t. ***This gave us 73 books of the Bible, ALL Divinely Inspired, but then Protestants reduced that to 66, but THAT’S ANOTHER THREAD!

 

[always_gr8ful]

Always, where can I find the list of the “essentials” and “non-essentials” in the Bible and where it says in Scripture that it is okay to disagree on these “non-essentials”?

You also never answered this question:

God bless

Well, RomanCatholic, I would say that at least half of what I see people arguing about on this board fall under “non-essential”. Like arguing what is essential and what is non-essential.

I’d love to answer your question, but I’ve noticed that any answer I give will be pooh-pawed away, so why waste my time? If I had any indication that you were actually interested and not pre-disposed to ignore anything I say, I would certainly take the time for you.

 

[TheWhoFreak]

"Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."
~John 6:28-29

“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”
~John 3:36

We obey completely the will of the Father to believe in Jesus Christ alone for eternal salvation because we will never be perfect and fit to stand before Him. It is only through Jesus alone that all sins, past, present and future are forgiven. If we don’t believe this, we have not done or are doing the will of the Father.

“Lord, Lord have we not prophesied, cast out demons, and done many wonders in Your name” are most likely are people who are may have been baptized, prayed and witnessed and done what they thought were many deeds which made them think that they were probably saved. Notice that Jesus does not question whether they actually did such works. Yet He rebukes them for not doing the Father’s will and He denies them kingdom entrance. Those who do not believe in Christ alone for their salvation have failed to do the will of the Father.

It is a sad possibility that some in the “works are the will of the Father” camp have never placed their trust in Christ alone. They may go to their graves preaching passages like Matthew 7:21-23 only to find out that Jesus was talking about them, not someone else.
I hope and pray that such people wake up before it is too late.

Do you believe in the Jesus of the Bible? The Lamb of God that takes away all our sins? The One who justified us and made us perfect and righteous though His death and resurrection so that we may stand before Him holy and perfect?

Please don’t try to guilt-trip me. Of course I believe in the Jesus of the Bible. He takes away all of our sins, but it doesn’t happen right when we are “born again”!!!

When you mention passages like

“Lord, Lord have we not prophesied, cast out demons, and done many wonders in Your name”

you are misinterpreting them. Jesus is talking to people who have deluded themselves into thinking that they are doing these things for God, but are really doing them for personal gain. I recommend you check out James 2:14-26
Try making Sola Fide plausible after that

 

[workingman]

Please don’t try to guilt-trip me. Of course I believe in the Jesus of the Bible. He takes away all of our sins, but it doesn’t happen right when we are “born again”!!!

When you mention passages like you are misinterpreting them. Jesus is talking to people who have deluded themselves into thinking that they are doing these things for God, but are really doing them for personal gain. I recommend you check out James 2:14-26
Try making Sola Fide plausible after that

:clapping:
Good luck on geting a truthful resopnse on James 2:14-26. I tried with him earlier in the thread and was blown off. YOU are definiatly right on with your postings WhoFreak

 

[always_gr8ful]

This reminds me of a point I want to bring up but I don’t know if it has been discussed already. always gr8ful, where did you get the Bible from? Yes, you got it from a bookstore, but where did the Bible originate? The Catholic Church is where the Bible originated. You can pontificate all you want about how the Holy Spirit simply guided some believers in the right direction, but that doesn’t change the fact that they were all Catholic. I’m sure you don’t belive me, but Early Church Fathers back me up. Heck, even Martin Luther said that all Protestants owe a debt to the Catholic Church for discovering the Bible. So let’s face it. The Catholic Church has God’s Divine Authority no matter how you slice it. This should show you why we believe the Church to be infallible; if the Church is guided by God, and we go to the Church, are we not going to God as well, through the Church?

Wow. Y’all are really indoctrinated into this stuff, aren’t you? You all say the same thing like it’s Gospel. Well, it’s not. In the words of another poster -“what you have is a different Gospel and therefore must be rejected”. BTW, please point out the Catholic Jews and where they worship.

If God works 99.99% of the time through our fellow man, wouldn’t it make sense for God to install a place on Earth where us humans have direct access to Him and His Presence? Hence, the Catholic Church

No, hence the Holy Spirit. God is inside of those who believe. We don’t have to go somewhere to be in His presence because Jesus said “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.”~Matthew 18:20, so He is here with us in this discussion. Jesus also said “And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”~Matthew 28:20

***As well, if you claim to accept the Bible as Divinely Inspired, you also claim to accept the Catholic Church’s authority. It was the Catholic Church that decided which books of Scripture were “God-breathed” and which weren’t. ***This gave us 73 books of the Bible, ALL Divinely Inspired, but then Protestants reduced that to 66, but THAT’S ANOTHER THREAD!

Bold, extra large text comes across as screaming in a forum, btw.

No, I don’t have to accept the Church’s authority. My God is not some God-in-a-box the Church can hang their hat on. He is All-Powerful, All-Knowing and Sovereign. He is God Almighty and can do anything and use anyone He wants for His purpose. In this case, the choosing of scriptures that make up the Perfect Word of God.

 

[always_gr8ful]

:clapping:
Good luck on geting a truthful resopnse on James 2:14-26. I tried with him earlier in the thread and was blown off. YOU are definiatly right on with your postings WhoFreak

LOL, now I KNOW you don’t read my posts!

I did an entire Bible study on James 2. Sorry you missed it. I made a really cool discovery, which happens when you study God’s Word. It’s how He communicates with us.

Perhaps you just have me confused with someone else, but please be more careful when talking about people and stating something as fact.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Well, RomanCatholic, I would say that at least half of what I see people arguing about on this board fall under “non-essential”. Like arguing what is essential and what is non-essential.

Great, why do you believe they are non-essentials? Is there a list in the Bible which tells you this?

I’d love to answer your question, but I’ve noticed that any answer I give will be pooh-pawed away, so why waste my time? If I had any indication that you were actually interested and not pre-disposed to ignore anything I say, I would certainly take the time for you.

Nice dodge. Do you have an answer for how a Christian is to know what writings are scripture and which are not? What is the standard one is to use in determining? Where did you get this standard? How do you know that all these verses that you have been quoting are scriptural? Also, I would like your answer from the Bible please.

God bless

 

[workingman]

LOL, now I KNOW you don’t read my posts!

I did an entire Bible study on James 2. Sorry you missed it. I made a really cool discovery, which happens when you study God’s Word. It’s how He communicates with us.

Perhaps you just have me confused with someone else, but please be more careful when talking about people and stating something as fact.

No I read it. I just think you are completly wrong.

 

[always_gr8ful]

Please don’t try to guilt-trip me. Of course I believe in the Jesus of the Bible. He takes away all of our sins, but it doesn’t happen right when we are “born again”!!!

Oh no? Show me in scripture that the Work of the Cross - His death, burial and resurrection, was only half finished.

When you mention passages like you are misinterpreting them. Jesus is talking to people who have deluded themselves into thinking that they are doing these things for God, but are really doing them for personal gain.

Now that would be your interpretation, wouldn’t it? Those people who are deluding themselves - do they believe in the Jesus of the Bible? Because if they don’t believe in Jesus at all, then they wouldn’t be saying “Lord Lord” right?

 

[always_gr8ful]

Nice dodge. Do you have an answer for how a Christian is to know what writings are scripture and which are not? What is the standard one is to use in determining? Where did you get this standard? How do you know that all these verses that you have been quoting are scriptural? Also, I would like your answer from the Bible please.

God bless

No dodge, just the plain truth. I would love to educate, but like I said “but I’ve noticed that any answer I give will be pooh-pawed away, so why waste my time? If I had any indication that you were actually interested and not pre-disposed to ignore anything I say, I would certainly take the time for you.”

Why don’t you pick up the book “Evidence That Demands a Verdict” and discover for yourself how God moved mere men to form our complete Bible. I just used an entire evening to make a very serious point here about Salvation that will be ignored by most, but I did it because I wanted to. I do not want to spend another evening posting what I already know about the origins of the Bible so that it can be ignored by you. So call it a dodge if you want - you’re not the boss of me.

 

[always_gr8ful]

No I read it. I just think you are completely wrong.

I thought when you said that you were “completely blown off” you meant that I never answered about James 2, not that you thought I was wrong.
Sorry, silly me.

 

[humble_in_doubt]

Well, RomanCatholic, I would say that at least half of what I see people arguing about on this board fall under “non-essential”. Like arguing what is essential and what is non-essential.

I’d love to answer your question, but I’ve noticed that any answer I give will be pooh-pawed away, so why waste my time? If I had any indication that you were actually interested and not pre-disposed to ignore anything I say, I would certainly take the time for you.

you will not find that maxim anywhere in the bible.

“in necessariis Unitas in dubiis libertas, in omnibus caritas” (In essentials unity, in doubtful things/non-essentials freedom, in all things love).

The maxim is attributed to Rupertus Meldenius (aka Peter Meiderlin) a Lutheran theologian.

 

[workingman]

I thought when you said that you were “completely blown off” you meant that I never answered about James 2, not that you thought I was wrong.
Sorry, silly me.

Sorry bad wording. Still does not change the fact you are completely wrong on it? MABY?
Yep I don’t see a good refutation on James2:14-26

 

[always_gr8ful]

you will not find that maxim anywhere in the bible.

“in necessariis Unitas in dubiis libertas, in omnibus caritas” (In essentials unity, in doubtful things/non-essentials freedom, in all things love).

The maxim is attributed to Rupertus Meldenius (aka Peter Meiderlin) a Lutheran theologian.

Thanks humble! I knew it wasn’t Biblical, but thought it fit well where used.

 

[always_gr8ful]

Sorry bad wording. Still does not change the fact you are completely wrong on it? MABY?
Yep I don’t see a good refutation on James2:14-26

I thought it was awesome! I LOVE it when God speaks a Word of Truth to me. It was like His personal stamp of approval for me to post and post “belief plus nothing”.
God is very cool.

 

[always_gr8ful]

So did Jesus die for some of our sins, or ALL our sins past, present and future?

"When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.
~Col. 2:13-14

“God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God in him.”
~2 Corinthians 5:21

**Hebrews 10
Christ’s Sacrifice Once for All **

"The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. If it could, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins, because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
I have come to do your will, O God.’” First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them” (although the law required them to be made). Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:
“This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.” Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.” And where these have been forgiven, there is no longer any sacrifice for sin.
~Heb. 10:1-18

 

[rinnie]

What is the will of His Father that we should do?

Hey! Glad we have more participants. Welcome, theWhoFreak.

Ok. Let’s look at what God’s Word says about your answers. But first off, let me say I don’t care if you are Catholic, Baptist, Pentecostal, Church of Christ, etc. - God’s Word never changes and it is what we are all united under. I don’t know who came up with the maxim “In essentials - Unity, in nonessentials - Liberty, and in all things Charity”, but I do know this is an essential and I pray that hearts are opened to God’s Word.

CWBetts, you are all right - God is perfect and we cannot enter His kingdom without becoming absolutely perfect. So in your reasoning, if someone died suddenly without being restored through confession, they would not be perfect in the eyes of God. Now I don’t know if the Church has something to cover such sudden death, but are you aware of just how perfect we must be to stand before Him?

Isaiah 64:6
“But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.”

Jesus said “That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.” Well, the Pharisees and scribes kept the law to the letter, and Jesus only had disdain for them. Does this mean we don’t care to keep the commandments? Of course not! At the end of chapter Matthew 5, Jesus says “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.” How are you ever going to reach this perfection through keeping His commandments?

Hebrews 10:1
“For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.”

So if the law can’t save us by making us perfect by keeping His commandments, then there must be more - the answers given here are “the works we do”.

Going back to the Sermon on the Mount. Have you ever considered that what Jesus said was impossible? Don’t be shocked - I’m making a bigger point. We would certainly consider things like giving to the needy and loving our enemies “works”, wouldn’t we? But what of “And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.” or

“And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.” Who here has never been angry with their brother? Remember, Jesus said “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”

Continued…

How could we be made perfect without keeping his commandments? Jesus never changed that. He never said we did not have to keep the commandments. That my dear is the law that he never changed. If you could show me where we don’t have to keep the commandments I would love to see that. The commandments are NOT the law of Man. They are the Law of GOD. And in order to get into heaven we must obey them. SO again the gospel according to ALWAYs isn’t working for me. So could you show me always where Jesus changed the commandments.

You never answed my question Always, you danced around it and repeated it, But tell me how do we do the will of the Father, if not by following his commandments. I am going to have to pull a protestant here now. Scripture please. Please show me the scripture that says you do not have to follow the ten commandments to get into heaven. No more beating around the bush. Just plain true, pure scripture. thank you.

 

[rinnie]

So did Jesus die for some of our sins, or ALL our sins past, present and future?

"When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.
~Col. 2:13-14

“God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God in him.”
~2 Corinthians 5:21

**Hebrews 10
Christ’s Sacrifice Once for All **

"The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. If it could, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins, because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
I have come to do your will, O God.’” First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them” (although the law required them to be made). Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:
“This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.” Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.” And where these have been forgiven, there is no longer any sacrifice for sin.
~Heb. 10:1-18

IRONIC isnt it. Always show me where Jesus said when he died on the cross he paid for past, present and future sins. We have to do nothing.

Then please explain to me the scripture Col 2:13-14