Evangelicals Will Be Extinct Within Ten Years

[rinnie]

This is where the Holy Spirit is very helpful, as he teaches us the meaning of Scripture and the Scripture I have shown you is showing that faith alone saves. Sometimes we invent little saying’s and that is where the confusion is.

But I thought we were forbidden to add to scripture. You added the word alone to scripture. Also do you claim to have the Power of the Holy Spirit to interpret scripture. If so when was it handed down to you and how? We know that the Apostles had it handed from Jesus and the Priest can prove apostolic succesion. Where did your power come from?

 

[BRIT72]

Don’t set up a dualistic view of yourself. It’s not healthy and it’s not scriptural, unless you take a twisted interpretation. Own your own actions, be in control of yourself and learn self-mastery. Don’t try and blame your “old flesh.” Until you can do that you’ll never conquer sin.

“Old flesh,” really. What nonsense. You’ll have this flesh until the resurrection. You sound like a Gnostic!

ROMANS 7

Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Maybe you will think Paul is a Gnostic too.

 

[Saved43]

I agree we are saved by Grace, But show me where it say’s Faith ALONE?

A person is saved through faith as the Word of God teaches. For grace to be bestowed upon a person they must have personal faith in Christ.

“But without faith it is impossible to please him” Hebrews 11:6

Compare scripture with scripture and you will find out that personal faith/trust in the Lord Jesus Christ depending on his finished work on the cross and that alone brings a person into the good of salvation not works/religion/ a so-called good life.

Saved through faith, in other words faith brings a person into the good of salvation.

Abraham, Moses, Jacob, David, Paul, Peter, John etc. were all men of faith.

There would be no need for the Lord Jesus to go to the cross if works saved a person.

Without personal faith in Christ grace cannot be given.

“That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:12-14

“For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.” Hebrews 4:2

 

[BRIT72]

But I thought we were forbidden to add to scripture. You added the word alone to scripture. Also do you claim to have the Power of the Holy Spirit to interpret scripture. If so when was it handed down to you and how? We know that the Apostles had it handed from Jesus and the Priest can prove apostolic succesion. Where did your power come from?

Now you’re being silly.

 

[BRIT72]

REALY! Following a command of God the Triune God is just a sugestion then. What utter foolishness.

You know what I meant.
I’m too tired to argue with comments like that.
Got to go, may be back tomorrow, it’s all in the will of God.

 

[rinnie]

A person is saved through faith as the Word of God teaches. For grace to be bestowed upon a person they must have personal faith in Christ.

“But without faith it is impossible to please him” Hebrews 11:6

Compare scripture with scripture and you will find out that personal faith/trust in the Lord Jesus Christ depending on his finished work on the cross and that alone brings a person into the good of salvation not works/religion/ a so-called good life.

Saved through faith, in other words faith brings a person into the good of salvation.

Abraham, Moses, Jacob, David, Paul, Peter, John etc. were all men of faith.

There would be no need for the Lord Jesus to go to the cross if works saved a person.

Without personal faith in Christ grace cannot be given.

“That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:12-14

“For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.” Hebrews 4:2

Oh my, We do have different teachings. We are taught that we are saved by Grace. And by that grace we receive the faith that we need to believe and Love Christ. I have never heard that faith alone saved us. And I have never heard that we could have faith without Grace. I thought it was through Grace that Jesus saved us on the cross. We have really learned the opposite. I never knew you got faith before Grace. How is that possible?

 

[TheWhoFreak]

Oh my, We do have different teachings. We are taught that we are saved by Grace. And by that grace we receive the faith that we need to believe and Love Christ. I have never heard that faith alone saved us. And I have never heard that we could have faith without Grace. I thought it was through Grace that Jesus saved us on the cross. We have really learned the opposite. I never knew you got faith before Grace. How is that possible?

It isn’t

I might add that the only time in Scripture the words “faith” and “alone” are next to each other is in James 2:24 and they’re being refuted: "You see a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. So Sola Fide is therefore unscriptural

 

[Saved43]

Oh my, We do have different teachings. We are taught that we are saved by Grace. And by that grace we receive the faith that we need to believe and Love Christ. I have never heard that faith alone saved us. And I have never heard that we could have faith without Grace. I thought it was through Grace that Jesus saved us on the cross. We have really learned the opposite. I never knew you got faith before Grace. How is that possible?

The grace of salvation is only given to those who receive Christ personally by faith.

Indeed the great love of the Lord Jesus Christ made him go to the cross and suffer in body and soul the judgement for your sins and mine but before salvation can be given a person must humble themselves before God as a sinner and put personal faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and hiim alone.

The Lord Jesus said that unless a person is born-again they will not see heaven, Christ’s work on the cross has provided the only means of salvation, personal faith believing from your heart the Lord Jesus died for your sins to save you from eternal punishment and his sacrifice for sin on the cross was enough to save you will make you sure of heaven and save you from hell.

“Believing on” in God’s Word is depending on/trusting in/faith in Christ. Those who were healed when the Lord was on this earth had to have personal faith in him to be healed. The same truth applies to salvation - personal faith in Christ at that alone is a must to be saved from eternal punishment.

“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” John 3:36

 

[workingman]

You know what I meant.
I’m too tired to argue with comments like that.
Got to go, may be back tomorrow, it’s all in the will of God.

No I don’t. YOU talk of false hoods in your understanding of the Bible. God gave a comand and should be followed. There was no other reason to place it the scriptures.
God bless and have a good night.

 

[workingman]

Saved43;5118281]The grace of salvation is only given to those who receive Christ personally by faith.

What are you talking one of those lovly alter calls where we go off and say a special prayer afterwards in order to be saved.

Indeed the great love of the Lord Jesus Christ made him go to the cross and suffer in body and soul the judgement for your sins and mine but before salvation can be given a person must humble themselves before God as a sinner and put personal faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and hiim alone.

That is great, but there is a problem. One no matter what keeps sining. So one daily needs to drown the old sinful nature through daily confession and contrision. This came from Luther who if he would of kept his mouth shut and quietly gone up the chain of the church “errors” of the church could of been corrected and we would not have sill quibles because mostlikly in my opinion the others would of been crushed, but that is a nother thread.

The Lord Jesus said that unless a person is born-again they will not see heaven, Christ’s work on the cross has provided the only means of salvation, personal faith believing from your heart the Lord Jesus died for your sins to save you from eternal punishment and his sacrifice for sin on the cross was enough to save you will make you sure of heaven and save you from hell.

This starts with baptism one of the seven sacraments. You actualy think your balck sinful heart is capable of that?

"

Believing on" in God’s Word is depending on/trusting in/faith in Christ. Those who were healed when the Lord was on this earth had to have personal faith in him to be healed. The same truth applies to salvation - personal faith in Christ at that alone is a must to be saved from eternal punishment.

Faith in Christ yes. Not OSAS.

 

[guanophore]

You are adding to Christ’s finished work.

Not in the sense that you are using the phrase. The Catholic Church teaches that by
God’s will " we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. " Heb.10:10

His sacrifice is complete and entire. No human sacrifice can compare to it, since He is the spotless lamb.

I don’t know how much you have been influenced by the Calvanistic heresies, so it might surprise you to know that God created us out of His love. He created us in His likeness and image, which means that we have freedom of choice. He will not cause anyone to spend eternity with Him who does not wish to do so. We therefore are in a position to choose life.

Not everyone does choose to add themselves to Christ’s finished work. For those who do not wish to be added to Him, the benefits of His once for all sacrifice are very limited.

Acts 2:40-41
40 And he testified with many other words and exhorted them, saying, “**Save yourselves **from this crooked generation.” 41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

Do any of us imagine that the Apostles taught that we could save ourselves? On the contrary, it is incumbent upon us to receive His word, and be baptized. By this we add ourselves to the salvation He purchased for us.

No, but you are confusing what God commands, and what is necessary for Salvation (belief).

Actually, what you are promoting is not what the Apostles believed and taught. Who might be confused?

Acts 17 doesn’t say repent to be saved, and neither does Acts 2.

Unlike “bible christians”, Catholics do not derive doctrine from a couple of bible verses. we take into account all of the Scriptures, in the light of what the Apostles believed and taught. This is why we undrestand scripture differently.

However you failed to answer my question. I asked you

“What word does your bible have in place of the word “repent” in this passage?”

What does the word “repent” mean to you?

Did you read any of the Scriptures that prove that Mary was a sinner, there is only one person that ever lived that was sinless and that is Christ. I hope poor Mary doesn’t know about the worship she receives, she would be horrified.

There are no verses that “prove that Mary was a sinner”. Sorry. There is nothing in Scripture that contradicts the Teaching of the Church.

Indeed, Mary would be horrified if she were worshipped. Catholics do not worship Mary. The fact that a person is created without sin does not make them worthy of worship. Adam and Eve were created without sin, but we don’t worship them either.

But honey, you are following the catholic church, we are following Christ directly.
I submit to Christ, not man. I wish you could understand.

Jesus makes no distinction between Himself and His Holy Bride, the Church.

Don’t get us wrong, Brit. The fact that we do not agree with you does not mean we don’t understand. A lot of us here left Catholicism and sojoured among Protestant communities. We understand, we just recognize now that these ideas are not what was believed and taught by the Apostles.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

No, but by their works they shall be known.

Aha! By their works, their commandment keeping, their choosing not to sin. And if they stop keeping the commandments they stop being saved. It isn’t a once and for ever thing.

 

[Saved43]

It isn’t

I might add that the only time in Scripture the words “faith” and “alone” are next to each other is in James 2:24 and they’re being refuted: "You see a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. So Sola Fide is therefore unscriptural

If you keep the scripture in James in it’s context you will see that the writer is speaking to those who are already born-again people that have already received the grace of salvation by personal faith/trust in the Lord Jesus Christ and he was not saying that works save. The works followed those who had already applied faith but the works did not save them and certainly without personal faith in Christ they could not do the works of God.

Compare scripture with scripture and do not pick a verse here and there to try to say that works save. The Word of God teaches faith alone in Christ alone brings a person to salvation and a person will see that by comparing scripture with scripture.

A man or woman can try to do his/her own works (works of man) to merit salvation but these are not the same works (works of God) that follow a person that has genuinely repented and put their trust in Christ receiving him as their personal Lord and Saviour.

If a person is depending on their own works to save them from hell they are not depending on the Lord Jesus Christ and his finished work that can only save them from hell. In other words they have not personal faith in Christ and are not born-again. There would have been no need for Christ to have suffered if our works saved us, and we could not do enough works to save us either.

But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. Isaiah 64:6

 

[Marsha_Adams]

NOT A REQUIREMENT OF SALVATION!

This means that faith alone saves, not we can go against God if we want to, because we wont want to.

Ever hear of Jim and Tammy Baker?

 

[Marsha_Adams]

This is where the Holy Spirit is very helpful, as he teaches us the meaning of Scripture and the Scripture I have shown you is showing that faith alone saves. Sometimes we invent little saying’s and that is where the confusion is.

Your Holy Spirit has shown 30,000+ different meanings of Scripture resulting in 30,000+ different Protestant sects.

Our Holy Spirit has only one meaning of Scripture which belongs to the one living body of Christ to which we belong.

 

[always_gr8ful]

The disciples of Christ = the Catholic Church. Everything you’ve said is true!

But sweetheart Jesus Christ is the Catholic Church. You cannot separate Jesus Christ from the Catholic Church. How can you say that the Catholic Church is man, when the Catholic Church is indeed the Jesus.

The Catholic Church has God’s Divine Authority no matter how you slice it. …wouldn’t it make sense for God to install a place on Earth where us humans have direct access to Him and His Presence? Hence, the Catholic Church

This argument does no good because Always will not accept the simple fact the the Bible is a Catholic book.

The Church has the infinite mercy and grace of Almighty God.

I haven’t caught up on this thread yet, but I’m skipping ahead because I keep seeing this and each time I wince a little. I tried to spread the quotes around to show that most are saying the same thing.

My question is, isn’t this awfully close to making an idol of the Church, and thus, breaking the 2nd commandment?

“Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:
Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them”
~Deuteronomy 5:6–21

 

[guanophore]

I’m sure if Jesus had said (as His first Words) “Believe on Me and be saved!”, He might not have got very far.

ChrisusV, you are confusing what God commands, and what is necessary for Salvation. In light of the ALL the scripture posted in #856 including His own Words that we are saved through Him by belief (plus nothing), I can’t make it any clearer than that.

What you think is quite “clear” to us. It is equally clear that it is not consistent with what the Apostles beleived and taught.

Saving faith is obedient faith. Those who are saved follow His commandments. There is no separation from the faith that saves and the faith that obeys.

We were talking about Salvation. Repentance and keeping the commandments is not a condition of Salvation. Free Gifts don’t come with strings, as noted about 800 posts ago.

You have yet to explain that the preaching about salvation involves repentance. What does repentance mean to you?

On the contrary of what you teach, saved persons are repentant,and do keep thecommandments. They are not “strings”, though.

1 John 5:2-5
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that overcomes the world, our faith. 5 Who is it that overcomes the world but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

Those who love Him keep His commandments. There is no separation between the faith that saves, and the faith that obeys. They are one and the same.

Show me from the Scriptures(66 books) where Mary is called co mediatrix.

It is right there next to the inspired list of which books belong in the Bible, and the definition of the word “Trinity”.

Don’t you think that Jesus would be VERY clear when dealing with something as important as our salvation? And the Apostles and Paul - don’t you think they would be crystal clear?

I do! The errror, though is your expectation that this clarity is necessarily going to be found in Scripture. There are many places where scripture is ambiguous.

I'm not twisting the Gospel - I'm posting their very words and the very Word of God! How can you look at post #856 and say it's twisting?!

Because you are interpreting the words to mean something different than what Jesus taught to HIs Apostles.

The Bible proves the Holy Trinity, it might not use those exact words, but we all know what the Holy Trinity is.

I agree, but that is because I have received the doctrine of the Holy Trinity from the Apostles, and therefore, accept what I see in scripture that confirms this.

Those who do not receive the doctrine of the Trinity from the Apostles do not see it “proved” in Scripture.

In the same way, we believe the doctrines of Mary because we have received them. We find them reflected in Scripture because we accepted the Faith.

1 Cor 15:1-2
15:1 Now I would remind you, brethren, in what terms I preached to you the gospel, which you received, in which you stand, 2 by which you are saved, if you hold it fast - unless you believed in vain.

We don’t receive it from trying to derive our own doctrines from the Holy Scripture, but from those appointed by the Apostles.

But what about when it’s not implied…

Then it is a good time to check on those Blinders.

 

[always_gr8ful]

The Lord Jesus Christ is a person not a religious system whether it be the Catholic church, Protestant church or any other man made religion/denominationj/sect/system.

There is no mention of Catholics or protestants in the bible (Word of God) as to God men are either Saved (born-again) or sinners. Those who are genuinely born-again are part of Christ’s church which is nothing to do with Catholics, Protestant’s/man made churches or religion.

To be part of Christ’s church a person needs to be born-again not become Catholic or Protestant.

The Lord Jesus Christ who is God manifest in the flesh went all the way to the cross to suffer, bleed and die for your sins and mine, and rose again from the dead to provide salvation.

Those who repent by humbling themselves as guilty lost and hell deserving sinners before God, and put their total dependance in the Lord Jesus Christ and what he did on the cross to save them from hell are born-again/saved from the eternal judgement that their soul would have faced if they had not put personal faith in Christ.

Religion whether it is Catholic or Protestant, Muslim etc will not save anyone from eternal punishment. Repentance towards God and personal faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and him alone will bring a person into the good of what Christ did on the cross.

It is not good enough to say he died for the whole world or our sins within the heart but to realise your sins are taking you down to hell, but the Lord Jesus died for you, and to accept him as your Lord and Saviour trusting in him and his finished work on the cross is enough to save from you hell.

Tomorrow could be too late, receive the Lord Jesus now by personal faith in him.

“Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.” John 3:1-7

“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.” Romans 10:9

“Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.”
2 Corinthians 6:2

To be part of Christ’s church a person needs to be born-again not become Catholic or Protestant.

Hi Saved43. Welcome to the discussion!
I think that’s the biggest misunderstanding here (on this board). All this talk about tradition just seems alien to me, and I keep wondering “what does that have to do with Jesus dying for our sins?”

 

[CWBetts]

How is the breaking bread a sacrifice?
I have a lot of respect for the Old testament saints and the Apostles, I believe Mary was blessed among women, imagine being chosen to give birth to Christ, but that’s as far as it can be taken, without them becoming idols.

Given that the Holy Eucharist becomes the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ. Do not ask me how the bread and wine becomae the actua Body and Blood whie retaining their physical species of bread and wine. “With man it is impossible, but with God, all things are possible.” John 6 explains that Christ is truly present in the Host, and there is nothing in the context to indicate otherwise. The Holy Mass is the ongoing Sacrifice on Calvary, which exists outside of time. Holy Communion, or how you so irreverantally put it “breaking bread” is a Sacrifice. It is not a recrucifixion as you anti-Catholics like to say it is. (Lets be honest. You are an anti-Catholic.) Of course you are free to believe what you wish, if you want to gao against the Scriptures.

 

[CWBetts]

To be part of Christ’s church a person needs to be born-again not become Catholic or Protestant.

Hi Saved43. Welcome to the discussion!
I think that’s the biggest misunderstanding here (on this board). All this talk about tradition just seems alien to me, and I keep wondering “what does that have to do with Jesus dying for our sins?”

You are Peter (Kephas) and upon this rock (Kephas) will I build my church. Hmm I’m sure I read that somewhere…OH YES! Its in the Gospel according to Saint Matthew 16:18!!! This etablishes the Primacy of Peter, the Papacy, and oh hes the ONE HOLY CATHOLIC APOSTOLIC CHURCH