Evangelicals Will Be Extinct Within Ten Years

[CWBetts]

I am very disappointed! I put alot of effort into that long post, including quoting Scriptures form six different books of the Bible, and not a single anti-Catholic has bothered to try to refute it!! is it be that the Truth is irrefutable?

 

[always_gr8ful]

Saved43 - you’ve only just joined, and I bet Brit or always_gr8ful know you in real life? Either way, I find your rhetoric distasteful. Please take it elsewhere, if I wanted that sort of rubbish I’d look at Count Chickula’s website.

Christus, based on the two posts of Saved43 I saw, this is a very bigoted statement. You have apologized once, but when you continue personal attacks and intolerance toward other’s beliefs, your sincerity is in question and you are not reflecting well your Church. Please count to 3 before posting, and better yet, ask the Holy Spirit to guide you.

 

[Saved43]

Aha! By their works, their commandment keeping, their choosing not to sin. And if they stop keeping the commandments they stop being saved. It isn’t a once and for ever thing.

Yes they will be known by their works but not saved by them. Anyone adding or taking away from the finished work of Christ on the cross has never and i repeat never repented and personally trusted in Christ and his finished work. They are still depending on their own works to save them and are basically saying to God what your Son did on the cross is not good enough, i can get to heaven my own way, by my works. They have ME disease, they are depending on themselves (ME) and not on Christ’s precious blood to get them to heaven.

They say they are Christ’s but deny him by depending on their own religious man-made ordinances which are nothing to do with the real works of God which follow a born-again believer who has been brought into the good of salvation through faith alone in Christ alone.

There is only one real church in God’s Word, and that is Christ’s church which is all the people who are born-again depending on Christ’s precious blood to save them from hell (personal faith), not the man made protestant or cathollic churches etc. that are designed by satan to fool the people into thinking they are part of Christ’s Church but are depending on man made religion/ordinances which will lead people to hell and finally the lake of fire.

 

[CWBetts]

Yes they will be known by their works but not saved by them. Anyone adding or taking away from the finished work of Christ on the cross has never and i repeat never repented and personally trusted in Christ and his finished work. They are still depending on their own works to save them and are basically saying to God what your Son did on the cross is not good enough, i can get to heaven my own way, by my works. They have ME disease, they are depending on themselves (ME) and not on Christ’s precious blood to get them to heaven.

They say they are Christ’s but deny him by depending on their own religious man-made ordinances which are nothing to do with the real works of God which follow a born-again believer who has been brought into the good of salvation through faith alone in Christ alone.

There is only one real church in God’s Word, and that is Christ’s church which is all the people who are born-again depending on Christ’s precious blood to save them from hell (personal faith), not the man made protestant or cathollic churches etc. that are designed by satan to fool the people into thinking they are part of Christ’s Church but are depending on man made religion/ordinances which will lead people to hell and finally the lake of fire.

You are right there is only on real CHurch, only one Church with the fullness of faith. Other churches have pieces of the truth. I truly think the sincerely love Jesus, which is a good thing. But the fullness of truth is in the Catholic Church

 

[always_gr8ful]

Those who are saved follow His commandments.
On the contrary of what you teach, saved persons are repentant,and do keep thecommandments. They are not “strings”, though.

Since I agree that the saved follow His commandments, and that saved persons are repentant, then that’s NOT contrary to what I teach, is it?

What you don’t seem to understand is that our Salvation is through belief in Christ (plus nothing), and our Salvation is not dependent on what we DO once saved. The Perfect Gift of Salvation has no strings attached.

I never get tired of saying it.

 

[guanophore]

It’s not very likely that a born again Christian would kill anyone, but it’s not impossible either.
Someone like Hitler is so obviously not saved, it’s ridiculous to even mention him.
Although, had Hitler have repented and turned to Christ after what he had done, he would be accepted with open arms.

I think you better go back and read, Brit. Didn’t you see where always says a person does not have to repent to be saved?

But the Scriptures I gave you, show that Mary was a sinner who needed a Saviour, if she was sinless, why, oh why did she need salvation?

Can’t wait!

Try a search on immaculate conception. It really doesn’t belong on this thread. God is able to save people before they sin by preventing them from sinning. It doesn’t mean they needed saving less, it just means they didn’t have to sin to get a saviour.

How is the breaking bread a sacrifice?

In the same sense that the Passover Lamb is a sacrifice.

In the same sense that Jesus is a Sacrifice, and it is His Body and Blood.

I have a lot of respect for the Old testament saints and the Apostles, I believe Mary was blessed among women, imagine being chosen to give birth to Christ, but that’s as far as it can be taken, without them becoming idols.

This is a very Catholic thing for you to say!

No, Jesus Christ is not a Church, he is the head of the Church.

You are suffering from a deficient notion of “church” .

Eph 5:25-31
25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, 26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. 28 Even so husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no man ever hates his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, as Christ does the church, 30 because we are members of his body.

Jesus is not disconnected from His Body, the Church. He is not some disembodied “head”.

Saul learned that day that when he had been persecuting the disciples of Christ, he had been persecuting the Lord himself. Pain inflicted on the members of the Body on earth was felt by the Head of the Body in heaven.

Good for you! He is One with His Body.

 

[CWBetts]

Since I agree that the saved follow His commandments, and that saved persons are repentant, then that’s NOT contrary to what I teach, is it?

What you don’t seem to understand is that our Salvation is through belief in Christ (plus nothing), and our Salvation is not dependent on what we DO once saved. The Perfect Gift of Salvation has no strings attached.

I never get tired of saying it.

And we shall never tire of telling you that this belief is thoroughly and in all ways heretical. You have come to proselytize Catholics, a violation of Forum rules. You have payed no heed no any post. When your beliefs were challenged, you not only ignore the challenge you change the subject. We tire of you.

 

[always_gr8ful]

You are Peter (Kephas) and upon this rock (Kephas) will I build my church. Hmm I’m sure I read that somewhere…OH YES! Its in the Gospel according to Saint Matthew 16:18!!! This etablishes the Primacy of Peter, the Papacy, and oh hes the ONE HOLY CATHOLIC APOSTOLIC CHURCH

Humm… Peter. “The Rock”. The rock would be the foundation, right? And Jesus is JUST (forgive me Lord) the Cornerstone? Seems kind of backward to me. Unless, of course, this text has been given WAY more authority than it deserves.

Is that what it comes down to then? Jesus said he would build His church though Peter? But Peter was Jewish.

 

[CWBetts]

Humm… Peter. “The Rock”. The rock would be the foundation, right? And Jesus is JUST (forgive me Lord) the Cornerstone? Seems kind of backward to me. Unless, of course, this text has been given WAY more authority than it deserves.

Is that what it comes down to then? Jesus said he would build His church though Peter? But Peter was Jewish.

Oh and Jews cant be Christians? Adding anti-Semitism to your anti-Catholicism? And yes this is just ONE verse establishing the primace of Peter

 

[Saved43]

To be part of Christ’s church a person needs to be born-again not become Catholic or Protestant.

Hi Saved43. Welcome to the discussion!
I think that’s the biggest misunderstanding here (on this board). All this talk about tradition just seems alien to me, and I keep wondering “what does that have to do with Jesus dying for our sins?”

Yes, the hardest thing for a person whether they belong to catholic, protestant, muslim etc religion/traditions to learn is the truth that Christ’s church is not the catholic one or protestant one but contains all the born-again believers who have genuinely depended on the Lord Jesus Christ and his precious blood and that alone to save them not their man made churches or traditions/works.

Thanks for the support.

 

[CWBetts]

Yes, the hardest thing for a person whether they belong to catholic, protestant, muslim etc religion/traditions to learn is the truth that Christ’s church is not the catholic one or protestant one but contains all the born-again believers who have genuinely depended on the Lord Jesus Christ and his precious blood and that alone to save them not their man made churches or traditions/works.

Thanks for the support.

Sorry to diaappoint, but sacred Tradition is not man-made. It is revealed by God. And if you would read your Bibles, you would see that not all tradition is condemned

 

[workingman]

It is so not belief plus nothing. Hebrews 6:10 For God is not unjust;hewill not overlook your work and the love that you showed for his sake in serving the saints, as you wtill do.

In this verse from Hebrews God clearly showes he will reward our works on earth and in heaven.

Also see Sirach 16:12-14; Great as his mercy, so also is his chatisement; he judges a person according to one’s deeds. The sinner will not escape with plunder, and the patince of the godly will not be frustrated. He makes room for every act of mercy; everyone recieves in accordance with one’s deeds.

The verses from Sirach cleary state we will be juged by our deeds and will also recieve accordingly to our deeds.

 

[always_gr8ful]

I am very disappointed! I put alot of effort into that long post, including quoting Scriptures form six different books of the Bible, and not a single anti-Catholic has bothered to try to refute it!!

Believe me, I feel your pain.

And we shall never tire of telling you that this belief is thoroughly and in all ways heretical.

But just saying the Word of God posted is heretical does not convince anyone! What can you show in scripture that cancels out the Words of Jesus and the Apostles (belief plus nothing) in all that scripture that says belief plus nothing in post number #856.

You have come to proselytize Catholics, a violation of Forum rules. You have payed no heed no any post. When your beliefs were challenged, you not only ignore the challenge you change the subject. We tire of you.

If you tire of me, ignore me - no one is making you read. And telling me that I am violating Forum rules (which I’m not) is not going to change the Truth of post #856, which, btw, has gone TOTALLY unanswered by any Catholic (excluding the personal attack), so again, I feel your pain.

I shouldn’t say totally unanswered because I haven’t caught up in this thread yet.

WOOWHOO! Over 1000 posts! Congratulations to ALL of you who have participated in this thread and kept it civil so we ALL can learn from each other.

 

[CWBetts]

Believe me, I feel your pain.

But just saying the Word of God posted is heretical does not convince anyone! What can you show in scripture that cancels out the Words of Jesus and the Apostles (belief plus nothing) in all that scripture that says belief plus nothing in post number #856.

If you tire of me, ignore me - no one is making you read. And telling me that I am violating Forum rules (which I’m not) is not going to change the Truth of post #856, which, btw, has gone TOTALLY unanswered by any Catholic (excluding the personal attack), so again, I feel your pain.

I shouldn’t say totally unanswered because I haven’t caught up in this thread yet.

WOOWHOO! Over 1000 posts! Congratulations to ALL of you who have participated in this thread and kept it civil so we ALL can learn from each other.

Neither Jesus, nor the Apotles presched belief plus nothing. They preached “Go forth and sin no more”

 

[always_gr8ful]

And if you would read your Bibles, you would see that not all tradition is condemned

Yes, I know this. But if it cannot be reconciled with the Word of God, it must be rejected, right?

 

[Saved43]

It is so not belief plus nothing. Hebrews 6:10 For God is not unjust;hewill not overlook your work and the love that you showed for his sake in serving the saints, as you wtill do.

In this verse from Hebrews God clearly showes he will reward our works on earth and in heaven.

Also see Sirach 16:12-14; Great as his mercy, so also is his chatisement; he judges a person according to one’s deeds. The sinner will not escape with plunder, and the patince of the godly will not be frustrated. He makes room for every act of mercy; everyone recieves in accordance with one’s deeds.

The verses from Sirach cleary state we will be juged by our deeds and will also recieve accordingly to our deeds.

There is nothing wrong with works for a born-again believer who already is depending on Christ’s finished work and that alone (personal faith in Christ+ nothing) to get them to heaven and save them from hell as the verse in Hebrews 6:10 shows but it does not teach works save or the bible would disagree with itself (which it does not).

The sirach is not part of the true Word of God as it disagrees with the rest of scripture proving itself to be false doctrine/corrupt text and departing from the wholesome words of the true and only rock - the Lord Jesus Christ.

“For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?” Psalm 18:31

Remember if Peter was the rock instead of the stone he was then true scripture would disagree with itself - which it does not. :tsktsk:

 

[guanophore]

Always_gr8ful, we used to have a word for people like you, but it’s a shame because it’s out of fashion now.

Shhhhhhhh… can you hear the blood of the martyrs who DIED for these truths accusing you for this?

Heretic… heretic… heretic!

You’re taking the truth and mixing it with falsehood. You are taking a collection of verses and ignoring the rest. You are obstinate in your error. Repent! Please, repent and come to the fullness of the truth!

No Christus, this is inappropriate. Not only is namecalling forbidden on the forum, but gr8ful cannot qualify to be a heretic. A heretic is one who once embraced the Truth, then chose to reject it. It is clear that she was never taught the Truth, and although she has espoused heretical ideas, she cannot qualify for the title.:nope:

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9.

Therefore being justified** by faith**, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 5:1.

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

None of these verses say that faith is ever alone. In fact, the Apostle that wronte these verses also says that “these three remain, Hope, Faith, and Love.” If you read past eph 9 you will see that works that God created beforehand are never separated from the grace that saves us. They are done through faith, by grace. Faith is never alone.

This is where the Holy Spirit is very helpful, as he teaches us the meaning of Scripture

I agree that the HS teaches. What is puzzling is that He is accused of teaching some of you differently than He has taught the Apostles and their successors for 2000 years. How is it He got so confused?

and the Scripture I have shown you is showing that faith alone saves. Sometimes we invent little saying’s and that is where the confusion is.

I understand that it says that to you,because of the theological filters you are wearing.

I agree, sometimes we invent little sayings, like Sola Scriptura, faith alone, grace alone, Jesus alone etc. It does cause confusion.

 

[always_gr8ful]

Neither Jesus, nor the Apotles presched belief plus nothing. They preached “Go forth and sin no more”

They DID preach belief plus nothing for Salvation. Yes, they DID preach “Go forth and sin no more”. but never did they preach that was required for Salvation.

In the Words of Jesus only:

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 5:24
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:40
For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 6:47
I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life.

If the Church teachings are in absolute contradiction to the Words of Jesus here, they MUST be rejected, right?

 

[always_gr8ful]

CW, I haven’t gotten to your post you worked hard on yet - still trying to catch up and my eye catches the ongoing conversation. I WILL give it all my attention when I get there.

 

[workingman]

#856 by always gr8ful

James 2 seem to be the biggest obstacle in understanding, so since you won’t concede that perhaps you are missing the point of James 2, let’s look at your interpretation in the light of all other scripture that says "beliefLuke " plus nothing:

Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

You always talk of taking out of context. You here my friend did so also. This section of scripture is clearly talking about the commission of the disciples. Also there is nothing mentioned about faith plus nothing.

Luke 8:12
Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved.

What on earth are you trying to extrapolate from that parable of the sower. It has nothing to do with faith plus nothing. If you want to draw a line one should look at the Jesus Christ and the apostels as the sower.

John 1:7
He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe.

So yes John the baptist came before Christ to testify about him.John 1:8-9 clearly extrapilates that. Still no faith plus nothing

John 1:12
Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

Still does not back up statment of faith plus nothing.

John 2:23
Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Feast, many people saw the miraculous signs he was doing and believed in his name.

Yes he showed them signs and they believed. But if you continue to read Jesus did not entrust himself to them… This does not adress faith plus nothing

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Always, yes faith in Christ is required but it does not say faith with out works or faith alone or belief plus nothing.

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him."

What does this have to do with what you are trying to say. We do not reject Jesus as Catholics if that is what you are insinuating.

John 4:41
And because of his words many more became believers.

Yes Jesus conveted many because of his words to the Samarian woman. This still does not exclude works.

John 5:24
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

This still does not prove faith plus nothing.

John 6:29
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

Wow you finaly found a text that uses the word work. Still don’t see faith plus nothing or faith with no works.Read in context from vers 25 onward.

John 6:35
Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty.

Yes you are correct. Jesus is the eternal life. Still does not prove OSAS without works.

John 6:40
For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

Still does not support the argument you are trying to make.

John 6:47
I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life.

Yup still need faith and works though.

John 7:38-39
Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him." By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

John 8:24
I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins."

John 11:25
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;

John 11:26
and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

John 11:40
Then Jesus said, “Did I not tell you that if you believed, you would see the glory of God?”

John 12:46
I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.

John 16:27
No, the Father himself loves you because you have loved me and have believed that I came from God.

John 17:20-21
Jesus Prays for All Believers ] “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.”

John 20:31
But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

I think I have made my point throgh out that it is not proven that it is faith alone or belief plus nothing though you keep quoting verses. OSAS is not supported.

---

Salvation = Belief + nothing
“For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin;
that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.”
~2 Corinthians 5:21