Evangelicals Will Be Extinct Within Ten Years

[CWBetts]

Hi Workingman. I’m not going to get caught up here tonight, so I just wanted to give you a shout-out to let you know I’m reading your posts. Personally, I’m glad I have no sacraments to comply to. Just living in the Spirit is hard enough without a bunch of laws added in. Just food for thought - if the sacraments weren’t necessary for your salvation, would you still do them as righteously?

The point is that they are channels for Grace, and each one is in the Holy Scriptures

 

[always_gr8ful]

Greek “pisteuo” means to put trust into in order to obtain in gaining something.

So the belief in John 3:16 is an aid, not the whole package. Sorry to have to break out the Greek on you.

What is your trusted Greek source?

 

[always_gr8ful]

The point is that they are channels for Grace, and each one is in the Holy Scriptures

Yeah, I forgot that. You have to admit your system of salvation and grace is very complicated.

Is the Greek Lexicon trustworthy?

 

[CWBetts]

Yeah, I forgot that. You have to admit your system of salvation and grace is very complicated.

Is the Greek Lexicon trustworthy?

I am not a Greek scholar. I trust the source for my lexicon though because the other information is accurate

 

[always_gr8ful]

I have a friend that is Jewish. She was dumbfounded to learn that Protestant OT Scriptures are incomplete. They were universally accepted as Canon until Martin Luther did his hatched-job on the Scriptures

Are you talking about the Apocrypha? Because if you are, what you said about being universally accepted is not true.

 

[workingman]

Hi Workingman. I’m not going to get caught up here tonight, so I just wanted to give you a shout-out to let you know I’m reading your posts. Personally, I’m glad I have no sacraments to comply to. Just living in the Spirit is hard enough without a bunch of laws added in. Just food for thought - if the sacraments weren’t necessary for your salvation, would you still do them as righteously?

Well thank you for reading as I also do my best to read yours. The sacraments are a means of grace. Remittence of sins baptism, confession and absolution, the Eucharist the litteral presens of Jesus on the altar all I am saying is that the sacraments are there to bring you closer to God in a state of grace. This is somthing we as humans need to do because of our sinful human nature. Just some food for thought.

 

[Saved43]

Pick one. You can’t be neither, unless your Orthodox, but thaey dont buy OSAS

I am a born-again again believer who is part of no catholic or protestant sect/system and am certainly not depending on a man made church/works to save me from hell. The only one who ever taught once saved always saved was the Lord Jesus Christ (God) so i cant expect you to believe him.

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and THEY SHALL NEVER PERISH, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. John 10:27-29

The Lord’s sheep are those who are born-again and follow him because they are indwelt by the Holy Spirit who gives them the power to follow him and they have received the Holy Spirit by faith alone and Christ alone.

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOD through FAITH unto SALVATION ready to be revealed in the last time.” 1 Peter 1:3-5

 

[CWBetts]

What is your trusted Greek source?

Greek Interlinear Bible found on the Faith Database available at CAtholic Answers online store

 

[guanophore]

To be part of Christ’s church a person needs to be born-again not become Catholic or Protestant.

I think that’s the biggest misunderstanding here (on this board). All this talk about tradition just seems alien to me, and I keep wondering “what does that have to do with Jesus dying for our sins?”

No, there is no misunderstanding. The Catholic Church has always taught that, unless one is born from above by water and Spirit, one cannot enter into the Kingdom.

I understand that the tradition seems alien to you. This is understandible, because you have come from a faith community that has been separated from it for 500 years. What does Sacred Tradition have to do with Jesus dying? Sacred Tradition is the manner in which the good news was held and preached by the Church.

1 Cor 15:3-8

3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 Then he appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles.

The preaching of the gospel was “received”. Paul did not go into Scripture and try to dig it out on his own. He was taught it by those to whom it was committed. The Sacred Tradition is “in accordance with the Scriptures” because they both come from the same Source.

Jesus promised to protect His word, until the end of the Age, and to lead the Church into all Truth.

Since I agree that the saved follow His commandments, and that saved persons are repentant, then that’s NOT contrary to what I teach, is it?

I think it is. It seems that you believe that repentance is not required for a person to be saved. It sounds like you believe people repent “after” they are saved, which is not consistent with the Apostolic message. I can’t be sure, though, because I haven’t read your answer yet to “what is repentance?”

Since I agree that the saved follow His commandments, and that saved persons are repentant, then that’s NOT contrary to what I teach, is it?

What you don’t seem to understand is that our Salvation is through belief in Christ (plus nothing), and our Salvation is not dependent on what we DO once saved. The Perfect Gift of Salvation has no strings attached.

I never get tired of saying it.

What you don’t seem to understand is that our Salvation is through belief in Christ (plus nothing), and our Salvation is not dependent on what we DO once saved. The Perfect Gift of Salvation has no strings attached.

Oh, I understand what you are pandering. It is not a lack of understanding that makes me reject it. It is rejected because it is different from what we have received from the Apostles.

Yes, the hardest thing for a person whether they belong to catholic, protestant, muslim etc religion/traditions to learn is the truth that Christ’s church is not the catholic one or protestant one but contains all the born-again believers who have genuinely depended on the Lord Jesus Christ and his precious blood and that alone to save them not their man made churches or traditions/works.

Thanks for the support.

This is not hard for Catholics. This is the teaching of the Catholic Church.

But just saying the Word of God posted is heretical does not convince anyone!

That is not what he said, gr8ful. He said that your interpretation constituted heretical thinking. The Bible is a Catholic book. The only heretical material in there was included to give us examples of what not to believe and do.

Equally, your posting of stacks of Catholic verses is not very helpful. You see, most of us on here know our scriptures very well. You can’t post anything with which we are not very familiar. What you are posting that is unlike the Apostolic Teaching is your modern evangelical interpretation of the Scriptures.

What can you show in scripture that cancels out the Words of Jesus and the Apostles (belief plus nothing) in all that scripture that says belief plus nothing in post number #856.

The words of scripture are those of Jesus’ Teachings through the Apostles. It was not “believe plus nothing”. However, I very much doubt that such a thing can be “proven” to you. You see, Catholics do not derive doctrine from the Scripture as bible christians have to do. We receive the doctrine from Christ, through the Apostles, and those who succeeded them in all authority. Persons who refuse to receive what was committed to the Church are only left with what they can glean from the pages, however twisted the results might be.

And telling me that I am violating Forum rules (which I’m not) is not going to change the Truth of post #856,

The scriptures don’t violate the forum rules.

CAF is not a venue provided for you to evangelize Catholics into bible Christians.

You can read the forum rules here:

Do not view the discussion area as a vehicle for single-mindedly promoting an agenda.
Non-Catholics are welcome to participate but must be respectful of the faith of the Catholics participating on the board.

The goal of proselytizing would be considered a single minded agenda.

 

[Saved43]

Are you talking about the Apocrypha? Because if you are, what you said about being universally accepted is not true.

Exactly right my friend.

 

[workingman]

Exactly right my friend.

Only by heretical protestants.

 

[CWBetts]

Are you talking about the Apocrypha? Because if you are, what you said about being universally accepted is not true.

You can always find a couple of quotes to the contrary for anything. But the concensus was that the Deuterocanonicals were Scripture for everybody until the 16th century. Study the History. It was Cardinal Newman (who was himself a convert) who said “to be deep in history is to be Catholic”

 

[always_gr8ful]

I am not a Greek scholar. I trust the source for my lexicon though because the other information is accurate

Ok, good.
From the Greek Lexicon:

peiqeÑw (Apeitheo)

1. not to allow one’s self to be persuaded
   a. to refuse or withhold belief
   b. to refuse belief and obedience
2. not to comply with

pisteu/w (Pisteuo)

1. to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
   a. of the thing believed
2. to credit, have confidence
   b. in a moral or religious reference
3. used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul
4. to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith 1bc) mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith
5. to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity
   a. to be entrusted with a thing

I’m not getting “obey” for John 3:36. The closest is second meaning of the word “to refuse belief and obedience” I think “obey” is a bad translation and is deceptive.

 

[always_gr8ful]

Exactly right my friend.

Awe… ya gotta choose your battles, but sometimes it’s hard to let those statements go by.

 

[guanophore]

He told the woman that was caught in the act of adultery to “Go and sin no more” not to “Go forth and sin no more”, but he did not say by doing that she would be saved.

Yes, but this is one of the reasons we say that faith is not “alone”. Saving faith always expresses itself in fruit that befits repentance. In spite of what some claim, repentance from dead works is required of us.

Sinning no more would be very good if we could do it, but we cant and that is why we need Christ and need to be born-again with the Holy Spirit indwelling a person who has trusted in Christ. Only then will a person really hate their sin and turn from it, with the Lord’s help/the Holy Spirit’s power to overcome sin. The Holy Spirit is given to a person when personal faith alone is applied in Christ and his finished work alone.

Christ is never alone. He is the Head of His Body, the Church. However, otherwise what you have said here is Catholic.

I will give you the same verses that i posted before as it will do you good if you see who are only given the Holy Spirit and that salvation i by faith alone in Christ alone.

Well, we read it differently, don’t we?

Personally i know many catholics (and protestants) that take the Holy name of the Lord Jesus Christ in vain daily and frequently and how that is supposed to be going forth and sinning no more beats me. Of course while not blaspheming the Lord’s precious name is good that is not enough to save a person from eternal fire.

No, and one has to wonder if a saved person could engage in such behavior. This is considered a mortal sin- one that separates us from saving grace.

Yes, I have proved it with the Word of God. If you don’t believe His Word, that, of course, is your choice.

We believe His word, we just cannot accept your interpretatation of it. What you are extrapolating from the pages constitutes a different gospel thant he one we received from the Apostles. If we are to obey the command to hold fast to what they left with us, then we are obligated to reject such newfangled renderings.

 

[CWBetts]

Ok, good.
From the Greek Lexicon:

peiqeÑw (Apeitheo)

1. not to allow one’s self to be persuaded
   a. to refuse or withhold belief
   b. to refuse belief and obedience
2. not to comply with

pisteu/w (Pisteuo)

1. to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
   a. of the thing believed
2. to credit, have confidence
   b. in a moral or religious reference
3. used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul
4. to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith 1bc) mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith
5. to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity
   a. to be entrusted with a thing

I’m not getting “obey” for John 3:36. The closest is second meaning of the word “to refuse belief and obedience” I think “obey” is a bad translation and is deceptive.

Believe it or not (no pun intended), it is actually irrelevent. We are talking 2 verses aout of 73 books! And neither verse says belief alone. Especially when taken with the Parable of the Sower, the Parable of the Vine, James 2 and Hebrews 6, OSAS unravels and quickly.

 

[guanophore]

The real Church of Christ contains all the born-again believers that have trusted in him. The catholic church is a man made church system designed by satan to delude people into trusting in a man made church/system and not Christ (the real person who is God).

I don’t know why you came to this forum, Saved. Maybe you are just here to help gr8ful. However, if you wish to remain here, I strongly suggest that you read the forum rules and abide by them. As I posted above, you can disagree with the Catholic faith if you want, but you must respect our faith. This is a Catholic site. If you wish to make comments of this kide, then you will have to put up your own anti-Catholic website, as they are not welcome here. :dts:

 

[Saved43]

Only by heretical protestants.

The Lord Jesus does not accept the Apocrypha either because it goes against his true Word and his teaching’s. satan would like people not to depend on the Lord Jesus Christ and his cross work alone and he uses false scriptures which go completely against the true Word of God like the Apocrypha to blind/darken those who dont compare scripture with scripture and do not listen to the Holy Spirit who need to realise the Apocrypha is false scripture.

 

[always_gr8ful]

Only by heretical protestants.

I guess Josephus was a heretic because he numbered the books of the Old Testament at as 22. And Jerome refused to translate the Apocrypha but did at other’s insistence, and they were added literally “over his dead body” around 420.

 

[CWBetts]

The Lord Jesus does not accept the Apocrypha either because it goes against his true Word and his teaching’s. satan would like people not to depend on the Lord Jesus Christ and his cross work alone and he uses false scriptures which go completely against the true Word of God like the Apocrypha to blind/darken those who dont compare scripture with scripture and do not listen to the Holy Spirit who need to realise the Apocrypha is false scripture.

Any, I dunno, Evidence for that?