Evangelicals with gay children challenging church

[Thorolfr]

This is the beauty of our Church. People who suffer from SSA have the option of celibacy. Evangelicals do not. There is the requirement that anyone who is a serious Christian must get married.

I’ve never heard that before and I was raised Southern Baptist

 

[on_the_hill]

This is the beauty of our Church. People who suffer from SSA have the option of celibacy. Evangelicals do not.

Evangelicals don’t have the option of celibacy?

Does that mean they have to be sexually active whether or not they’re married?

Also, Evangelicals aren’t all the same. I think Evangelical describes a style of worship and a lifestyle more than a theology. I think Protestants of any faith can be Evangelical.

I have a good friend who is Evangelical. I’ll ask her if her daughters are required to be married.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

This is the beauty of our Church. People who suffer from SSA have the option of celibacy. Evangelicals do not. There is the requirement that anyone who is a serious Christian must get married.

They don’t actually mandate it, they just make everyone who chooses not to marry a weirdo.

Evangelicals don’t have the option of celibacy?

Does that mean they have to be sexually active whether or not they’re married?

Also, Evangelicals aren’t all the same. I think Evangelical describes a style of worship and a lifestyle more than a theology. I think Protestants of any faith can be Evangelical.

I have a good friend who is Evangelical. I’ll ask her if her daughters are required to be married.

Celibacy refers to abstaining from marriage, not abstaining from sex.

 

[cjforJesus]

They don’t actually mandate it, they just make everyone who chooses not to marry a weirdo.

Celibacy refers to abstaining from marriage, not abstaining from sex.

celibate

    adj.adjective

        Abstaining from sexual relations.

        Remaining unmarried, especially for religious reasons.
    n.noun

        One who abstains from sexual relations.

        One who remains unmarried, especially for religious reasons.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

celibate

    adj.adjective

        Abstaining from sexual relations.

        Remaining unmarried, especially for religious reasons.
    n.noun

        One who abstains from sexual relations.

        One who remains unmarried, especially for religious reasons.

In Catholic theology it refers to remaining unmarried

 

[estesbob]

I do not consider myself unfortunate and just as with heterosexual relations, there is love and self-sacrifice in many same-sex relationships. As Cardinal Erdo wrote about same-sex unions in the midterm report from the Synod on the Family, “it has to be noted that there are cases in which mutual aid to the point of sacrifice constitutes a precious support in the life of the partners.”

A view that was categorically rejected by the church.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

A view that was categorically rejected by the church.

It was not rejected. Bishops chose not to have the synod report contain it.

Bishops also chose to have the synod report not say that bankers can be good people. Should we thereby infer that the bishops do not think that bankers can be good people?

We can’t infer anything from what is NOT said.

 

[estesbob]

It was not rejected. Bishops chose not to have the synod report contain it.

Bishops also chose to have the synod report not say that bankers can be good people. Should we thereby infer that the bishops do not think that bankers can be good people?

We can’t infer anything from what is NOT said.

Since it was in the original report and not included in the final report we can most certainly it was rejected .Especially In light of the fact many homosexual apologistns still quote what was rejected as if it is church teaching

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Since it was in the original report and not included in the final report we can most certainly it was rejected .Especially In light of the fact many homosexual apologistns still quote what was rejected as if it is church teaching

It was rejected as an aspect of the report. It was not rejected as false.

When I take something out of the final draft, I do not declare it to be false. I might think it’s false, or I might not.

Including X means I believe X is true. Omitting X does not speak to my beliefs at all.

 

[benjohnson]

m Fr. Heribert Jone’s Moral Theology, Section 757, on "The Sins of Married People”:

Wow. I’m almost speechless, so my only response would be from St. John Chrysostom:

“The road to hell is paved with the skulls of erring priests, with bishops as their signposts.”

 

[benjohnson]

To the OP: I think the way our church has handled our members with SSA has worked well - we welcome every sinner, with the recognition that we all have our own sins to repent and work on.

I think the mistake some of us heterosexuals in our church make is that the sins of homosexual sex are easy to avoid, so we pay ourselves on the back as being pious.

Frankly, there’s so many sins that we commit and so many omissions that the lust filled mis-use of body parts could seem almost tame. For example - we Lutherans in the LCMS have not proclaimed the Gospel to our pro-choice friends as well as we should.

 

[cjforJesus]

Wow. I’m almost speechless, so my only response would be from St. John Chrysostom:

“The road to hell is paved with the skulls of erring priests, with bishops as their signposts.”

I was also astounded by some of this" moral theology". Did you know Jone also said it was a mortal sin not to vote in an election if not doing so causes the worse of the two candidates to be elected!

 

[cjforJesus]

To the OP: I think the way our church has handled our members with SSA has worked well - we welcome every sinner, with the recognition that we all have our own sins to repent and work on.

I think the mistake some of us heterosexuals in our church make is that the sins of homosexual sex are easy to avoid, so we pay ourselves on the back as being pious.

Frankly, there’s so many sins that we commit and so many omissions that the lust filled mis-use of body parts could seem almost tame. For example - we Lutherans in the LCMS have not proclaimed the Gospel to our pro-choice friends as well as we should.

Your church’s view sounds just like the Catholic one! We welcome the sinner always as the Church is not a museum of saints but a hospital for sinners said Pope Francis.

 

[benjohnson]

Your church’s view sounds just like the Catholic one! We welcome the sinner always as the Church is not a museum of saints but a hospital for sinners said Pope Francis.

We Lutherans have a lot to be thankful for in our Catholic brothers in Christ - your steadfast defense of life has been an inspiration and a clear call for us to repent.

To perhaps expound - the good news is that when we hold steadfast to what God has called us to, then people that engage in sins can also take comfort - that their sins have been forgiven once they repent. While we are are called to go and sin no more, I’m also certain that God understand a contrite heart in a willful body and is always there for us when we sin again.

 

[Thorolfr]

We Lutherans have a lot to be thankful for in our Catholic brothers in Christ - your steadfast defense of life has been an inspiration and a clear call for us to repent.

To perhaps expound - the good news is that when we hold steadfast to what God has called us to, then people that engage in sins can also take comfort - that their sins have been forgiven once they repent. While we are are called to go and sin no more, I’m also certain that God understand a contrite heart in a willful body and is always there for us when we sin again.

 

[benjohnson]

I was also astounded by some of this" moral theology". Did you know Jone also said it was a mortal sin not to vote in an election if not doing so causes the worse of the two candidates to be elected!

Help me out here - if I’m understanding correctly: If you knew one candidate was going to be evil, then I think we would be called to resist that evil. Especially so if revisiting would be as easy as voting. If we were aware of the consequences and of our own ability to vote, would we not be guilty of at least abetting evil if we willfully chose not to vote?

I got to reading some of Fr. Heribert Jone’s work and some of it is good - some of it is horrid - his book seems to have needed an editor and it’s a shame to see that the rest discarded. I am surprised at the ‘Imprimatur’ instead of ‘nihil obstat’ !

(I’ll not get too upset as with so many Catholic books being printed, I could see how a few regrettable ones sneak though the process now and then. Our Good Lord knows that we Lutherans have plenty of books to be ashamed of. )

 

[drac16]

Of course, it’s always a tragedy when someone suffers through no fault of their own and decides to take their own life. I don’t see how trying to change the christian faith is going to help, though. We have people like that in the Islamic community as well; people who want to see the faith change rather than wanting to be changed by the faith. I don’t respect that at all.

 

[Thorolfr]

Of course, it’s always a tragedy when someone suffers through no fault of their own and decides to take their own life. I don’t see how trying to change the christian faith is going to help, though. We have people like that in the Islamic community as well; people who want to see the faith change rather than wanting to be changed by the faith. I don’t respect that at all.

Yes indeed! Change is coming in the Muslim community, too.

There’s an article from a few years ago about them in the Huffington Post:

“Progressive Muslims Launch Gay-Friendly, Women-Led Mosques In Attempt To Reform American Islam”

At first, the devout Muslims who gathered in a Washington, D.C., conference center seemed like they could have come from any mosque. There were women in headscarves and bearded men who quoted the Quran.

But something was different. While mingling over hors d’oeuvres, they discussed how to change Islam’s future. A woman spoke about fighting terrorism; she had married outside the Islamic faith, which is forbidden for a Muslim woman. A Pakistani man mentioned his plans to meet friends for drinks, despite the faith’s ban on alcohol.

In a corner of the room, an imam in a long gray tunic counseled a young Muslim with a vexing spiritual conflict: being gay and Muslim. The imam, also gay and in a relationship, could easily sympathize with the youth’s difficulties.

On this brisk Monday night in late October, members of Muslims for Progressive Values, a nascent American reformist organization, had gathered from around the country to celebrate a milestone: In four years, the group had grown from a few friends to a thousand members and spawned a string of small mosques and spiritual groups that stretched from Atlanta to Los Angeles.

huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/29/progressive-muslims-launch-gay-friendly-women-led-mosques_n_1368460.html

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

A view that was categorically rejected by the church.

It was not explicitly rejected therefore it could not have been categorically rejected. PS is right that not including it in the final draft of the interim report does not necessarily mean it was rejected.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

It was not explicitly rejected therefore it could not have been categorically rejected. PS is right that not including it in the final draft of the interim report does not necessarily mean it was rejected.

In prior centuries, the Church used to post lists of errors that are condemned. That’s what I would call being both explicitly and categorically rejected!